Hypothetical Scenario: Should UM ever leave the Big Ten (again)?

Submitted by crg on
So, as many already know, Michigan parted with the Big Ten for 10 years back in the early 1900s, mainly because the conference was changing rules that ultimately made UM less competitive (http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/why-did-michigan-withdraw-big-ten-circa-1907). The independent experience was not very satisfying and UM rejoined the conference in 1917. Fast forward a century, we still seem to be having issues (according to many on this blog) with the conference (in football at least). So, as an excersise for the board, if Michigan did finally tell Delaney to get bent, where should they go? Try independent again or maybe negotiate a nice deal with the ACC (bringing in Notre Dame as a 16 team conference), or something else? This would probably never happen anyway, but it is interesting to consider.
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MWolverine7

November 20th, 2017 at 8:43 PM ^

No Wolverines don’t quit just because things haven’t been going our way - we will fight our way back to the top!

Joined: 12/14/2013

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Don

November 20th, 2017 at 11:49 PM ^

The main bond connecting the BIG schools is their membership in the Assocation of American Universities, a binational organization of leading research universities in the U.S. and Canada. Virtually every research university of note belongs to the organization; the two most recent departures are Nebraska and Syracuse, which left the AAU over disagreements stemming from how the organization counted non-federal research grant monies.

When Nebraska was invited to join the BIG, it was an AAU member, but between the time it was invited and the time when membership became official, it was booted out of the AAU after the AAU revised its criteria for determining research dollars. Nebraska's chancellor stated afterward that had Nebraska not been a member before it was invited, that invitation would never have come in the first place.

All other thirteen BIG institutions are AAU members, which is the most of any P5 conference. The PAC12 has eight members, the ACC five, the Big 12 three, and the SEC has three.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities

Joined: 06/30/2008

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Don

November 21st, 2017 at 12:20 AM ^

Who are you talking about? If you're asserting that the academic component of belonging to the BIG isn't a big deal to the institutions in the conference, you're mistaken. The fact that some institutions in other conferences might be rated as better than BIG schools doesn't change that. It would signal a huge shift in conference priorities to start inviting non-AAU schools, given the research institution orientation of the conference, and there isn't a shred of evidence of any such change coming.

All this doesn't change my opinion on BIG officiating or Delaney—I think the officiating has been biased against Michigan in football going all the way back to Schembechler, and Delaney is a goddamn jackass who has been screwing Michigan every time a ripe opportunity presents itself, like the choice of the officiating crew for last year's OSU game. That was clearly a purposeful decision by Delaney's office to tilt things toward the Buckeyes.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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NittanyFan

November 20th, 2017 at 8:46 PM ^

Notre Dame gets left out of the playoffs a few times as a 11-1 non-conference team.  They finally realize they need to join a conference.  But they don't like ALL of their ACC counterparts, they are snobs and view some of their conference-mates as beneath them.  If they're going to be in a conference, it will be on THEIR terms.

Because of such, Notre Dame reaches out and tries to form their own conference.  They try to meld something together that takes half of the B1G, mostly eastern schools (say, U-M, OSU, MSU, Northwestern, PSU, Maryland, Illinois) and half of the ACC (say, BC, Pitt, Syracuse, Miami, Virginia, Duke, UNC, Georgia Tech).

That's a new 16-team conference.

Now, I have no idea how many of those ACC and B1G schools (if any) go for this idea.  But I could see Notre Dame at least trying to cobble it together if forced to.  A theoretical path for U-M out of the B1G .........

Joined: 12/04/2012

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Mr Miggle

November 20th, 2017 at 11:12 PM ^

and the occasional writer just trying to get clicks. 4 x 16 will never work because you will never be able to reach an agreement on which schools will be left out. If the NCAA ever wanted to get into a full fledged war with politicians, that would be the way to do it.

Joined: 10/07/2010

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LSAClassOf2000

November 20th, 2017 at 8:46 PM ^

To be fair, of course, the Big Ten is one of the few spots where the fans, the players and the officials can be in the same stadium and yet be on entirely different pages regarding which sport is in fact being played - most notable the officials, of course. It's entertaining despite being infuriating at the same time. 

Joined: 01/07/2011

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Bubba

November 20th, 2017 at 8:51 PM ^

It truly is amazing what losing to our rivals on a constant basis has done to the psyche of our fan base. Winning cures a lot of things and prevents the tin foil hat factories from opening around the state. Michigan has always been the envy of the rest of the B1G to a point of obsession (also see: Sparty). The conference opposition has always held the narrative that we are the conference and media darlings and catch breaks that the remainder of the conference would not get. I personally think we do get breaks because of our prestige and money we bring to the conference (also see: Our sugar bowl game). Now that we aren't whooping the shit out of 95% of our opponents we think there legitimate bias by the conference to hold us back? We think because our coach voices his thoughts that he is now a target for the refs as payback? News flash - every fucking team thinks they get BS calls against them. The difference is we have been losing every fucking close game so we harp on every single event as if a bias exists. Fox has been plugging the hell out of The Game as if we are some superpower who hasn't been getting their shit kicked in by OSU over the last 15 years. The reason ? We are still a big name program with tradition and a massive draw for fans. Why would a conference conspire against that ? I'll answer that for you. They don't.

Joined: 12/18/2013

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BoCanHam15

November 20th, 2017 at 9:04 PM ^

Ohio State game last year was what? See the problem with what you’re saying is that; there are humans that can see! It’s amazing what a person can refute with actual visual fact! I️ will wait for you to refute that our receivers got held off the line of scrimmage the WHOLE game and that Ohio State got called for zero penalties! I️ can repost the game for you but you could do that for yourself! See the media is paid to feed your mind perceptions! Thus, people such as you can say,”that was questionable!” If you hold a receiver please tell me if it’s not conspiracy is it,”deception?” People are telling us fans, players, coaches, parents, bla, bla, bla. It’s in your minds! You didn’t see,”Donovan Peoples-Jones score a touchdown. They called it incomplete on the field. So, it’s much harder to reverse. BULLSHIT! Yeah it’s not a conspiracy it’s just what it is! You’re not going to get the calls! Sort of like being profiled. If they declare a mistrial in a civil suit; you were not profiled by the letter of the law!

Joined: 07/08/2016

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Bubba

November 20th, 2017 at 9:32 PM ^

Blown calls happen.  

 

Here is something to keep your nut-job brain busy for awhile:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rhett_Brymer/publication/303326028_Referee_Analytics_Bias_in_Major_College_Football_Officiating/links/573cd7a408ae9ace840fe5bd/Referee-Analytics-Bias-in-Major-College-Football-Officiating.pdf

 

Oh,  please explain this visual fact while you're at it

 

Joined: 12/18/2013

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Bigly yuge

November 20th, 2017 at 10:19 PM ^

Lol blown calls do happen. Blown games where one team has zero penalties while the other has several bogus penalties, followed by that team getting a terrible spot, does not happen. I have witnessed many poor poorly officiated games over the years, but never one that was so blatantly one sided. Also, these “blown calls” have happened way too much to us for it not to be noticed by this astute fan base.

Joined: 09/23/2017

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Red is Blue

November 21st, 2017 at 10:55 AM ^

The crew that worked the OSU-M game last year also got selected to ref a CFP game.  My understanding is the B1G is selected to supply a crew to the game and the league selects which crew it wants to send.  

So, you can take last year's selection one of two ways:

1) The B1G thought that crew was the best and assigned them to do that game (even after the OSU-M game was reviewed) - ie the league thought the crew did a good job.

or

2) The B1G rewarded that crew for something.  One thing they could have been rewarded for was making the OSU-M game come out the way it did so OSU could make the CFP.

Joined: 05/13/2010

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The Fan in Fargo

November 20th, 2017 at 11:54 PM ^

Yeah, that South Carolina 4th down play really wasn't  a blown call. That was just a guy assuming it was a first down and didn't look at it. Or something? Either way, that was one call the whole game spank nuts. Back in 2012 mind you.

Joined: 09/04/2016

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uofmfan_13

November 20th, 2017 at 11:21 PM ^

And Bo called him out on it in 1990. This isn't tin foil hat stuff. It did happen. And forget Michigan for a moment. What's wrong with pointing out that refereeing is atrocious at times and maddeningly inconsistent? Shouldn't B10 be fixing this ASAP?

Joined: 01/27/2011

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You Only Live Twice

November 20th, 2017 at 11:27 PM ^

Of course Fox, and whoever, will plug the hell out of the Game.  As you said, big name, tradition, draw for fans and ratings.  The conference can still treat us poorly and they do.

It's nothing new either.  

Joined: 09/14/2013

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The Fan in Fargo

November 21st, 2017 at 12:03 AM ^

It's not the entire conference. It's other fans or alums of other B1G schools that are giving these refs a couple hundred or thousand a game under the table in cash to keep UM down and out of the B1G title game and playoffs to stop their rise to national prominence. I have family members in Ohio and Illinois that tell me this. They say it's obvious too by how some of these things in plain view go uncalled against Michigan and the ticky tacky stuff they get hammered on. Doesn't take a lot of smarts to figure it out and trust me, many of you already know, I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree. 

Joined: 09/04/2016

MGoPoints: 1877

PeteMote

November 22nd, 2017 at 8:50 PM ^

Ummm... It isn't envy.     They think we are arrogant asses.   They don't envy us.   When we lose to App State or Toledo, or pee our pants against Penn State, we are mocked.   Michigan is a polarizing program.   You either love us or hate us.   We are not envied.   

If Missouri gets beat 42-13....no one in Pigs Knuckle, Arkansas cares.    But if Michigan loses in embarassing fashion, we get razzed nation wide.   

Why would other schools envy us?    We haven't won a Big Ten title in almost 15 years.   We lose 2-4 games a year.   We are 6-32 as an underdog straight up since Lloyd retired.   

Do you realize how long it has been since we had back to back seasons of 2 or fewer losses?  1985-86!   

Do you realize that before Rashan Gary, out of the last 15  5-star recruits we signed, 12 were absolute busts?   I don't mean solid players instead of exceptional.  I mean flat our sucked, transferred, legal issues, bust.    

Envious of what?  

 

Joined: 11/22/2017

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Red is Blue

November 21st, 2017 at 11:03 AM ^

Starting a new conference is interesting, but I'm not sure that is the right group to start with.  To join the league, teams sign an agreement that if they don't fully cooperate with investigations they are subject to penalties like loss of TV revenue or ultimately being kicked out of the league.  (ie, contractually enforceable sub peona like powers )

Look for highly regarded educational institutions that might want to participate in the "no cheat" league.  Not sure who cheats and who doesn't, but teams like Stanford, Vandy, Northwestern, Notre Dame...  

Joined: 05/13/2010

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H8anythingState2

November 20th, 2017 at 8:57 PM ^

It would give me great satisfaction for OSU and MSU to not have their biggest rival. Fuck ‘em! The look on those smug mofos faces when they learn they won’t play us anymore would be priceless. I want pictures.

Tired of being the cash cow that gets fucked over cause they know we will take it. Think about it, we would screw everyone that has been screwing us for years, especially that Delany asshat.

And I know tradition is a Michigan staple. But, I would love a change and it may reinvigorate this program. I know, history has not been favorable to those who leave their conferences. But, fuck it! Let’s do it!

ACC here we come!

Joined: 09/05/2017

MGoPoints: 843

crg

November 20th, 2017 at 9:20 PM ^

Who is saying run away from the games? Keep the ones worth saving as non-conference games (losing rutgers and a few other opponents no one would miss). Just deny the Big Ten their money and see how they respond.

Joined: 04/30/2015

MGoPoints: 75054

The Fan in Fargo

November 21st, 2017 at 12:08 AM ^

CRG, that's exactly right. Hit them where it counts most. If the B1G is going to sit there and not have fairness across all sports and in all games when it comes to competition, I say fuck em. Losing Michigan would be a huge blow to the conference. I'd love to see Michigan join the SEC or go Independent like Notra Dame and play some ACC power houses. That'd be fricking bomb.

Joined: 09/04/2016

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H8anythingState2

November 20th, 2017 at 9:28 PM ^

We know that the conference is making big money. We are one of the cash cows. Delany has clearly been against us on multiple fronts. The officiating crew for the last OSU game was the last straw for me. Send a message. He goes or we go.

Still would like to see astonished OSU fans. And change is inevitable, so what. I would appreciate not having to hate OSU so much. It would be healthier for me. Just a little selfish? Sorry/not sorry.

P.S. I am young and like change. And this is all hypothetical.

Joined: 09/05/2017

MGoPoints: 843

Bubba

November 20th, 2017 at 10:04 PM ^

Then do what the rest of the young kids do and take some adderall and try to focus.

While hypotehtical,  it's also a terrible idea from an optics standpoint.   You really want to go the rest of your life hearing how we left the conference because we couldn't hang with our rivals?  As Michigan fans, we are spoiled by our historical success and do not know how to handle adversity.

I hate to agree with that WD guy who stole my avatar,  but he was right about our fan base.   Have some patience,  Harbaugh WILL get the job done,  I'm sorry it's not happening at the rapid rate you expected.  Year 5 will be a B1G championship and a playoff appearnace ...  wish people could wait that long.

Joined: 12/18/2013

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SpilledMilk

November 20th, 2017 at 10:45 PM ^

Just one question though - is OSU going to Stop pulling in top classes and fire Meyer before year 5 of the JH tenure? If not, I don't see a conference title and cfp appearance as an automatic. It's going to be a grind and there's no magic year in which it will all come together. That's not to say that it won't, just that it's always going to be tough sledding in one of the best football divisions in the country

Joined: 10/15/2017

MGoPoints: 2895

Bigly yuge

November 20th, 2017 at 10:54 PM ^

Saban and Meyer have made patience a very tough pill to have to swallow. Both those guys win at unbelievable levels that it has made other fan bases go a little crazy. Since Nick Saban has been the coach of Alabama there have been dozens and dozens of coaching changes. He and Meyer have changed the college football landscape. Stepping back and looking at our situation as a whole, it’s easy to see that Harbaugh overachieved initially which has made some people in this fan base have unrealistic expectations. I think we will start to see the potential of Harbaughs coaching next season. The talent we have coming back is great. The defense will be in year three under Don Brown and should be great. The offense is a question mark, though a staff change or two could result in rapid improvement i.e. joe morehead at PSU. Special teams should be good to very good. I think people need to be patient, but it’s also okay to get pissed off when the team loses to our hated rivals. It’s human nature if you’re a diehard fan. All will be well in time.

Joined: 09/23/2017

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Red is Blue

November 21st, 2017 at 11:13 AM ^

I don't see the offense as a whole as a question mark next year.  

  • This year's freshmen WRs will be sophomores and we'll have the most polished looking one (Black) back next year.  I expect big improvement here.
  • RBs lose Isaac, but returns everyone else.  Should at least be marginally better.
  • TEs are all back a year older.  Should at least be marginally better.
  • QB Peters has some experience now and was showing signs and Speight will be healthy.  DM will also have a year with the program and strength training.  Should at least be marginally better.
  • Interior OL - Owenu and Ruiz will have gained experience, Bredesen will be back some of the other young guys have shown promise.  Should be better, maybe significantly better.

That leaves Tackle.  Who knows?

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