The Wings aren't even close to the kind of iconic deal that the Leafs have going on. To put it in perspective, when you travel to Tampla and the Leafs are playing there are at least as many Leaf fans as Tampa fans, same in Arizona, Vancouver, Calgary etc. Hell, even Ottawa it's 1/3 Leaf fans. Their presence is exponentially bigger than the Wings (championships or not, sorry) and the tv deals that Bettman negotiated in Canada (gigantic over multiple networks) vs. the US (tiny and hardly relevant) illustrate that. Toronto has more than 20 000 people waiting just to get fleeced on season tickets (and believe me Toronto pricing is silly). Regardless of the quality of the team they sell out nightly. Compare that to the Wings where I got game day tickets (and good ones) easily three times last year or where they run ticket packs and deals.
Detroit has a good thing going in the US context but Canada and the GTA are entirely off the charts in terms of fan interest/intensity. It's not even and never will be close.
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Last time I went to a Tampa game for the Leafs (easier to get top end seats than Toronto) it was tons of Leaf fans (snowbirds mostly and a bunch of people who flew in) and I got awesome seats, free cokes and hot dogs! Good times.
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You mean the same ones that ran kessel out of town and started throwing jerseys on the ice a few games into the season?
The thing is everyone with a logic mind knew babcock was leaving, and Toronto was the highest probability. Only reason people seconded guessed is when Toronto purposely played everyone like a fiddle acting like they were out.
Stamkos is a wild card that can very much go to anywhere that is paying. Detroit moving Datsyuk shows they're gonna be showing a large briefcase to Stamkos to bring him in. Only Stamkos has a feeling of what places he would like to end up, and for how much.
Holland even said he wasn't going to move Datsyuk unless he had reason too, so expect a big run on him, or the other possibility Shattenkirk.
Bottom line he's looking at millions in endorsements in Toronto. Detroit cannot come anywhere close to that secondary income.
A second point that would not make sense to Wings fans. If a player or coach were to come to the Leafs and win a cup they'd name public schools after them. It's that relevant in Canada.
Stamkos, aside from the money and endorsements, surely knows this.
(As an aside, I see him going FA after kicking the tires then re-signing in Tampa if he doesn't go to Toronto)
There are a lot of reasons to not go to Toronto. Terrible team that is several years away from playoff contention, much less Cup contention. Irrational and rabid fanbase, insane media scrutiny. Plus there was this popular notion when Babcock was in Detroit that free agents didn't want to play for him.
That team is not several years away from playoff contention. That's delusional.
Two years ago Mike Babcock is a great coach not going anywhere and now he's years away from playoff contention? Now players don't want to play for him? Wings colored glasses.
Leafs just picked up a solid goaltender, Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Kapanen are all tier one prospects (three of them will be in the league next year). Every opportunity to make the playoffs next year.
Book it. (Remind me next year if this does not come to fruition...except it will).
Yeah, Toronto was picking 1st this year because they're real close to playoff contention.
Babcock is a great coach, but last I checked he can't win without the players. Toronto's best players are all prospects you're hoping will pan out. That's a tough sell for a guy looking to win a championship in the near future.
I'm calling the Leafs to make the playoffs next year. Remind me if I'm wrong (but I won't be).
People dismissing Toronto's "prospects" forget that Matthews is a potential generational player (its why you go concensus #1), Marner is a phenom and the rest of their prospects have been marinating a couple years with the Marlies (Hunter doesn't like to bring up kids and run them early - although I expect Matthews up day 1).
How many "potential generational players" have the Oilers drafted in the last 7 or 8 years?
The Leafs may (finally) be back to rebuilding the team with good ownership/management/coaching but if you think it is going to turn around overnight (or in one offseason) you aren't giving enough credit to talent on the ice.
Last season the leafs were/had
28th in goals per game
24th in goals against per game
29th on the PP
13th while shorthanded (which is not bad, I'll give you that one)
1 player break 20 goals (Parentaeu - 20)
2 players break 40 points (Kadri - 45, Parentaeu - 41)
And you traded your best goalie in the middle of the season. You also overpaid a goalie that put up the same rate stats as the goalie you traded last year who was in a platoon situation on the best defensive/PK team in the league.
You speak of the Leafs evidently Vezina quality netminders of last year...(throws up hands)
I like Reimer as a person and his loyalty to the organization/support of the fans is laudable. He more than most deserved the cup with San Jose. Post injury just not the same netminder as a few years ago. Unfortunate. Bernier just never translated from LA to the Leafs. Similarly unfortunate.
Andersson is a significant upgrade.
Are you arguing that Reimer wasn't your best goalie when you traded him?
What is your logic that Anderson is an upgrade? I present equivilent rate statistics despite Andersson playing and a significantly stronger team.
Anderson might be a solid NHL goalie but you will be paying him one of the top contracts in the league. But let's face the facts here this is a goalie who has 1 NHL season as a clear cut starter. And that was statistically his worst season.
I'm not saying Reimer is an elite goaltender but He has played his career for one of the worst performing teams in the league and is stopping the same % of pucks (which is what matters) as Anderson playing on one of the better teams in the league.
Bernier is a perfect example of this. LA has been a very good defensive team when Bernier was there and he put up good numbers (specifically 2010-2013 - 5th, 2nd, 8th). Bernier moves to Toranto who has been bad defensively (26th, 27th, 27th) and Bernier's numbers drop. Why wouldn't you expect the same thing to happen with Anderson?
"You speak of the Leafs evidently Vezina quality netminders of last year...(throws up hands)"
No I speak of Reimer and Bernier. If you don't have any arguement other than "do U even watch hockeyz lol!" and other hyperbole then why are you even on here talking about hockey?
You forget Reimer spent the last several years dealing with post concussion syndrome and his save percentage pre/post was markedly different. Not the same player, frequently injured due to this, and the Leafs could not stay with Bernier/Sparks. Again, too scary.
Andersen, looking at the advanced stats as opposed to save percentage, is almost completely average over 125 games but I'd take that over what the Leafs had (Bernier/Reimer/Sparks) in the past years. Too scary to stay with that. Assuming the cap remains stable or rises slightly then $5 mil per for stable middle of the pack/avg. goaltending is a step up for the Leafs and reasonable.
FWIW, Bernier's advanced stats don't simply reflect his defence in front of him but diminishment in his play. The Leafs would never have made the Reimer/Andersen moves otherwise given the relative cost.
Care to share the stats you are referencing for your arguement? Didn't think so.
Care to address the other parts of my posts which ask how Toronto is going to go from one of the worst teams in the league to at least average in most major categories? Didn't think so.
I also appreciate the tap dance from "Andersen is a significant upgrade" to "Andersen is average but Reimer was injury prone".
If you want to have a hockey debate/discussion I'm all for it. If you just want to try to get in a jab (I must be salty because the leafs have had so much more success than the wings in the last 25 years) and provide no actual back-up to your claims then we can just end the conversation here. No need to reply.
As to how Toronto will move from brutal to good:
Hire quality front office (check)
Hire Detroit's coach (check)
Tank (check)
Get exceptional prospects (check) keep solid core
Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Kapanen all top prospects to Hockey News etc.
VanReimsdyk, Reilly, Kadri, Gardiner all solid
Trade for Kerby Rychel today (not bad)
Get goalie that is not constantly injured so AHL goalie or Bernier is not starting (check). Average okay. (check)
Finally, you seem to forget this was a team that was purposively tanking since December to get Matthews or a top 3 pick. Clearly. Your analysis of the stats on the Leafs is pretty myopic when that is accounted. You can give me the prospects argument and I'll counter with LA, Chicago, Tampa in the past decade.
They will be young next year but not terrible; definitely on the rise.
I hope that's plain enough.
If I'm wrong in a year I'll own it.
"Finally, you seem to forget this was a team that was purposively tanking since December..."
Alright you got me. That's a hell of an organization you are rooting for there.
You don't choose the Leafs. They choose you.
toronto sucks. and have sucked for decades.
Wow. I don't think I'm the "salty" one here.
1.) Yes, he could make more money in Toronto but the Canadian dollar is weak right now and taxes are higher as well. Without knowing specifics, it's hard to say how much more he would have to earn to balance it out but it's a consideration.
2.) Yes Toronto/Canada are hockey crazy and he could be a god there. But it cuts both ways. The media and fan scrutiny will be much more intense. I'm sure Phaneuf and Kessel have wonderful things to say about Toronto. And Detroit is only a 4 hour drive for his parents.
3.) Yeah, Babcock is a good coach but Bashill accomplished basically the same thing in his first year as a NHL coach as Babcock did his last 3 years. And it could be argued this past year was the weakest roster the Wings have had in a long time. It appears Holland is at least trying to remedy that this summer and obviously Stamkos would be a huge part of that.
4.) The wings have some nice young talent too, most of which have actually played in the NHL - Larkin, Tatar, Nyquist, DeKeyser, and Mrazek
3.)
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a) All NHL contracts are paid in American dollars (which hurts Canadian teams, of course, when the dollar is 80 cents or so). Money a non issue except the Toronto endorsements.
b) The glare of the media, like Montreal, is much greater in Toronto because hockey matters there. The Leafs have a hockey show on TSN every day at lunch 12 months a year. It is true you require the right character to fit that. Stamkos has been under a spotlight since he was a kid and then in Sarnia though. He's from Toronto and would, like Kadri, get it.
c) If you are really considering that Blashill is the equal of the Hall of Fame coach Mike Babcock because of one season...same Babcock that coached your last cup...then /smh
d) Wings do have some nice young talent but it's either a wash or leaning Toronto (I mean, come on, Matthews/Marner).
FWIW, I think Stamkos re-signs in Tampa after kicking the tires everywhere.
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How much in endorsements in Toronto for Stamkos? Huge.
If your argument was legit on money then the Blue Jays and Raptors couldn't retain their players which has not been an issue.
Can we bet a few tailgate beers on this? I have Canadian craft beer on offer here.
FWIW, I think Stamkos re-signs after kicking the tires.
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Tampa might not have the cap space. Toronto was thought to be the major player but there are rumors he doesn't want to go there now (not that anyone would blame him for avoiding that dumpster fire of a franchise).
Along with Larkin. Tampa's got a ton of young talent, he'll want to get paid a max and I'm not sure if Tampa is going to go that far.
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You are right, I really wish the NHL would change the rule that requires players to live with a 5 mile radius of their home arena 12 months a year.
Totally unfair.