You're obviously a moron and clearly incapable of processing the idea that societies change and that people and institutions evolve. If you're going to call out Democrats for being racist or being officially involved in redlining a generation or more ago, then you should call out the entire country for having the institution of slavery at its birth. If nothing changes, which is your contention, if people and parties and institutions and governments and societies don't change then the US is still a racist slave owning country and you're still colluding within that system. Maybe the British and the Canadians still want their colonies back. Or the Germans and the Japanese are still secretly at war with us. People like you always want to pick and choose convenient facts about the past to buoy your own point of view.
I agree, and am now officially on record as calling out the entire country for having the institution of slavery at its birth.
Now, is it ok to talk about redlining since that was the primary topic that I responded to?
People like you are the worst. You pretend to be non-ideological but patently you're not. I know you. You and your type You love lynchings and cross-burnings in secret but not openly in polite society. I'm sure you'll conveniently trot out your one "black friend" or "Jewish son-in-law" because of course, you're not "racist" or "antisemitic" while spouting out all the classic racist or anti-semitic talking points. You should just be honest and embrace who you really are and openly declare yourself instead of cloaking yourself as being "neutral".
You are a piece of garbage,thank you for keeping this divisive issue even more divisive.Someone who doesn't think exactly like you do is a big fan on 'lynching' and cross burnings'.I'am glad you know me,but I don't know you and would never want to.
Attaboy, never let thinking interfere with your hating.
I agree with all of this. And when one political party has counted on people of color to just fall in line, even when their policies and actions are all talk and no action, it's time for Plan B. And, no, I don't mean the GOP.
In Canada, there are 5 major political parties (Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, Bloq Quebecois, Green Party). That practically assures that no single one can control the levers of power for very long. The Bloq Quebecois is a very good example of a party made up of a minority group. They use their influence over the outcome of proposed legislation before Parliament to strike a bargain, and move the needle forward.
African Americans make up 12.7% of the U.S. population; Latinos make up another 17.8%. Together, that's one-quarter of the country. If they could form a third major political party, neither the Democrats nor Republicans could have complete control of anything. Then, perhaps, we could see some real social reform.
Certainly tired of living in a country with only two viable parties, both of which live on the right
Great idea but a slippery slope. Make people chose to pick sides based on color and watch out. You dont want 70% of people affiliating themselves with the “unofficial” white party. I also say this to people posting things “your whiteness” and “your white privilege” is the cause of my demise. Youve got to play chess in this situation. Unite the 75% out there and great things await us. Divide it and the 25% whack jobs will have their way in elections time and time again.
Media has a vested interest in stirring us up. Its like if you were to write a drama you wouldnt have your main characters at peace, with click based media its the same thing. Lets find our common ground and take this on together.
Media has a vested interest in stirring us up.
Damn right. It's called ratings. And ratings = dollars for mega corporations that don't give a damn about anything but their profits. Cable news promotes social division for profit. Rachel Maddow to Tucker Carlson. They haven't turned down their big money deals. I suspect they rather like them. As always its about the money.
The problem is, our current political structure is built around a 2 party system. So much of it is “winner take all” that a third party isn’t viable.
You’re talking about taking a major chunk of the Democratic voter base and creating a third party out of it. Which ultimately weakens the Democratic Party without making the new party viable enough. All this effectively does is create more seats and more of a power hold for the Republicans.
With the current structure of our voting/electoral system, splitting the Democratic votes effectively in half is actually going to create the very thing you’re advocating against. Complete control by one party.
I don’t disagree with you in premise. I wish third parties were viable. But our entire system has to change for that to happen. You can’t compare our situation to Canada, because our entire system is different.
This is not that tough really.
If you're afraid of republicans, always go and vote in the primaries. Just don't support incumbents. looked how nicely that worked out for whatsername with the initials in New York.
The same is true if you are a republican.
I freely admit to not having this problem as I fear and loath both parties. During my stay on this earth I have found them both to be a gaggle of contemptible scum.
But I'm kind of wired that way anyway.
Actually you should always vote in the primaries, as that's where local governments and school districts slip in the pork. Mostly because they can pack the turnout with their own while you are on vacation, not paying attention.
Primaries have nothing to do with what was said. Primaries have nothing to do with the viability of third parties. Primaries have nothing to do with the fact that our elections are winner take all. So it doesn’t benefit either major party to split its voter base because it simply means the other major party will win more elections and establish a majority government that the other two parties have no hope of matching.
To Jonny Hintz point, a third party on a state or national level is not sustainable because of winner take all elections.
So what happens is coalitions form before elections instead of after them which is what happens in parliamentary systems.
In a lot of ways that's good a thing since we get so see the entire coalition and hence the whole platform before voting. Your assertion that a two party system allows one to control the levers of power for too long isn't really correct, certainly not on a national scale, but is mostly irrelevant because they are constantly changing and morphing to maintain a shot at a majority which requires new policy platforms to keep up with voter demands.
Exactly. For third parties to become viable, we would need to shift to a voting system where the number of seats your party receives in Congress is based on the voting percentages in various districts/states.
In this scenario, the hypothetical third party would caucus with the Democrats in a large amount of cases. In those cases, the combined representatives would potentially be enough to create some laws and changes.
But with winner take all elections like we have currently, splitting the Democrats votes would only lead to more Republican seats. All the elections that Democrats are currently winning by 5-10% or less, would turn to Republican wins where neither the Democrats nor the new party have a representative.
Our system is simply not suitable for a third party to be viable.
Google Duverger's Law. Two-party politics is a statistical consequence of first-past-the-post elections.
If you want multiple viable parties on the national level (and not just the local), you need to change the elections first. There's a reason we haven't had a viable multiple-party system in the US.
We need a 28th amendment guaranteeing a Livable Wage. That is all. Neg me all u want.
You’re right but you miss the point that white supremacy combined with black sellout grifter leaders that sold us out years ago to come up, have caused the huge gap in income and equality. It isn’t just the white man who is keeping us down. Once we realize that the right left, black white paradigm is bullshit and we all have one common enemy, nothing will ever get solved.
So you want to work on laws that help regulate the 2nd Amendment, right, because your concern here seems...iffy.
Or can we talk about white on white shootings, too? Do you know how many white people per capita kill each other in majority white cities?
Guns, violence—a bunch of angry men and poverty. Want to solve most crime, solve problems of racial and economic inequity. The imbalanced violence policing and sentencing and portrayal of the monolithic violent impoverished and dark skinned.
But nah, you don’t want to address why gangs exist in Chicago and other cities and how Jim Crow and prior all have a part in creating generations of abject poverty and stigma against those legally and financially intentionally held down and buried.
Break the knees of an entire generation and then tell them to get themselves to school. Do it over and over and pretend your talk of not being racist and valuing each other is honest.
Of course we want much less violence in every community, no violence, actually—police should not be part of that equation.
A police for should quell violence, not exacerbate it or start it. So what if someone is yelling at them or protesting demonstratively—that is the job they get paid to do. Slamming a woman half his size to the grown with all his force—what kind of cop does that? Cops that go home and laugh at protestors on SM and wish violence?
Again, they show what kind of thugs they are as individuals, illustrating the problems within the cop community. If they have to brutalize those they serve to protect society, then they should leave the force.
As a longtime professor, I’ve had some pretty asshole students, including ones that imply racial and gender and religious superiority without being out and out prejudice. I don’t go home and call them out as individuals on social media and say I hope they get what’s coming to them. Here—I vaguely mention them and do not wish ill on them. My job is to help them be better. A cop’s first move does not need to be violence—and that is what we are seeing and have seen. Stop shifting the topic like a racist would do. Are you racist? If not, don’t act like it.
Here's the thing that we need to come to an agreement on before any other good thing can possibly happen.
Nobody, having fallen into the hands of the police should ever under any set of circumstances, die.
Being in the possession of the cops needs to be the safest place in America.
Cops have been killing Americans of every stripe for the entirety of my life.
Every ten or twenty years, people get exercised about some particularly grievous murder and the shit hits the fan, but pretty quick they go back to not noticing and the Cops continue killing people.
Innocent or guilty nobody should die at the hands of the police.
Until people figure this one out, the rest of it is mostly window dressing.
Did you say slugs? If not you owe this entire board an apology.
im kidding
smile a little pussycat!
-Borat
Quick stat correction. Dozens of people aren't murdered in Chicago every weekend by guns or any other form. 490 murders in 2019.
Hey Fella, there is so much that is objectionable about your post--starting with the fact that throwing shade on the enormous issue of police brutality by mentioning some other damned problem is the weakest sort of argumentation, and obviously going to suggest you're a racist since the clear link is race. But--just to prod you a little, because you're not stupid, and want to be taken seriously, I assume: Take the time to write whole sentences, to look over what you've written and make sure it scans. Otherwise, it's too easy to write you off.
You guys are ridiculously ignorant.
I started to post more, but you just can't fix stupid.
Your posts are problematic in so many ways its hard to know where to start.
Having lived in Chicago violence in general there was out of control. Not just black people.
Gun violence is up 24% from last year even with the Corona Virus going thru the population in Chicago,it's mostly minority on minority.
Been a few years since I lived there but there were a few areas I did not drive through on purpose
And last year was a bad year.
Get over yourself. I've lived in Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit, and spent plenty of time working in NYC, Newark, Philadelphia, Boston, Dallas, and other cities around the country. You'll find those places in any major metropolis. There were plenty of very sketchy neighborhoods in Atlanta, Detroit, NYC, etc.
And last time I checked, St Louis, Baltimore, Memphis, Kansas City, Cleveland, and New Orleans all had higher homicide rates than Chicago.
And I'am quite sure St Louis is yelling to Chicago 'ha we have a higher homicide rate than you!'Thanks for letting us know how many places you have been and lived,makes you an expert.
Are you really this dumb or just pretending to be a moron?
Let's focus on this right now instead of engaging in whataboutism.
But this has been going on for decades and nobody says anything about it,it should be talked about even more so right now.
Probably because whenever someone proposes any sort of gun-control legislation, it gets shot down by NRA-funded politicians.
Yeah they won't be able to guns anymore if the NRA would just get out of the way,I hope you are not that naive, I'am gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and say your not.
i have one data point to add. i lived in chicago when it was illegal to have hand guns. this did not stop one of the people i worked with because it wasn't a federal offense. what stopped him from further weaponry was federal regulation. he would not get a gun with a laser sight. that was a step too far for him. just one data point saying if there is a federal law, it may stop some of the activity.
Right. You don't go through customs to enter Chicago. The city alone can't do much when other jurisdictions are more lenient. Gun control can't be a piecemeal thing.
Depends on what you mean by “gun control.” For some, that means make guns illegal. For some it simply means making it harder for people with certain criminal histories from getting them or people with mental health issues. I would agree with the latter.
But watching how some police officers are behaving right now, how they’re abusing their power and using excessive violence and force against unarmed citizens, why anyone would advocate for the former is beyond me. The state should not have a monopoly on guns. They’ve shown they’re incapable of handling that responsibility. This is why the 2nd Amendment exists. The people have to be able to defend themselves from state sanctioned violence.
One problem is that the people with all the guns support the police state.
Another problem is that the local measures on gun control lack any teeth. I was hospitalized in a mental institution recently, where I met many people from all walks of life. Befriended several alcohols and meth heads. The stories I heard about them getting piss drunk and high, drinking and driving, and then shooting off all their "toys" were terrifying...to put it mildly. And they all signed the same papers I did saying that they won't touch a gun for the next 5 years. But nobody came to my home to look for any guns, and nobody came to their homes to confiscate any. I love these guys dearly, but scouts honor isn't going to keep them from using their guns, nor is voluntary buyback in their relapse plan.
My views on gun control have definitely softened after hanging out in the looney bin (something I can't tell my wife, lol). However, my issues now are 1) I grew up in a pacifist household, was taught guns are an evil and we should live like Europe, and am terrified of guns; 2) I can't handle a gun for the next 5 years even if I wanted to overcome issue 1...
Maybe sit this one out, Chad
Ignoring the obvious differences, your ignorance doesn't mean the black community has done nothing about the violence and just whistles past a dead body every day. A random sample from quick recollection:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17399395/dwyane-wade-cousin-victim-fatal-shooting-chicago
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/rev-al-sharpton-addresses-violence-in-visit-to-chicago/93223/
The Obamas traveled to Chicago multiple times to discuss it and work on the issues. There are community programs to try and better the situation in Chicago and elsewhere. Clergy, city leaders, celebrities, POTUS have all discussed it and held summits on it.
So having forums and Obama talking about it makes it better?!Sorry for my ignorance,but what has been done about it,give me results instead of random celebs and people who race baits like rev Sharpton,serious you showed me nothing.Did Obama talking about it make things any better?Wow man thanks for enlightening me there.Seriously did it do any good?I'll answer it myself by looking at the real data wich I just did....NO.But again thanks for chastising me for my ignorance.
You asked "where are all the athletes?!?"
So I gave you athletes, a POTUS, and black faith leaders who have all addressed the issue and continue to do so to this day. LeBron stared a school and is providing scholarships to try and help bridge the education gap which in turn will help bridge the income gap. Jalen Rose, likewise, has a school in Detroit trying to do the same thing. They are doing more than just protesting or marching.
As I linked earlier, My Brother's Keeper is bringing financial support, organization, and mentoring to these communities specifically to try and get young black men into school, though school, to college or directly into the workforce, and passing that down to their children. They're not the only organization out there working to better the situation.
As for Chicago crime rates, what I could quickly find:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/01/us/chicago-homicides-shootings-trending-down/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/31/us/chicago-murders-drop-2019/index.html
I don't have the time nor the energy to get into why "results" are complex and for the long-term. You can't go into the South side of Chicago, drop a few hundred thousand dollars, give the projects a new coat of paint, and end the murders for good. Undoing decades upon decades of systemic inequities and accounting for all of their downstream consequences is HARD. If we wanted better results, we should have done a lot of things 50 years ago, but didn't. Best time to plant a tree and all.
If we're going to say we're not helping, or sit down and be quiet, until groups of people account for the worst actions among them, then we've got a lot of accounting to take care of on our side of the ledger.
for chastising me for my igorance.
If there was even the slightest bit of suggestion you might have been genuine in your statement and just ill-informed, rather than trying to stir shit up, I would have gladly discussed it with you to help you understand. Since that's not the case, if you want to jump into a conversation, change the subject, and feel all smart and edgy, I'll be here to tell you to go read something or take a minute to actually think before you talk. Because you didn't just miss the mark, you didn't even aim.
Thanks for that I will now go away to my hole,you are so much smarter and more informed than me.Trying to stir things up?Yeah I was because of the one sided crap being said in this thread,I read a good amount,enough to know there is no excuse for the violence going on not just in Chicago but other major cities everyday that is black on black but gets only token coverage,you have to go look online from articles from three years ago pr further back to prove your point.So yeah you are the man in showing me that I'am just a troll with no real opinion.
I don’t know either one of you but I can say with certainty they are definitely more intelligent and more informed than you
than why comment?
one sided crap being said in this thread
Hi, we're here talking about the extrajudicial killing of an unarmed black man by a police officer. Not sure what you thought you were walking into, but the "blacks are killing other blacks!!!" isn't this.
,I read a good amount,enough to know there is no excuse for the violence going on not just in Chicago but other major cities everyday that is black on black
Who the hell IS saying that? Seriously? You came in here to spew BS about black people not taking care of their own and that's that. Ignore the context, moment in time, or anything else and just go in on that. Not a single person on this site would argue that South Side Chicago murders are justified.
You know some people died of cancer today so don't talk to me about coronavirus. Cancer, now that's something we should be focusing on (even though a metric ton of research and funding goes into it). Why do we care about that 1 thing when this WHOLE other thing is going on over here?! O right, because it's happening right now.
you have to go look online from articles from three years ago pr further back to prove your point
The same god damn nonprofit I've brought up twice is operating currently! Not 3 years ago. Those schools are operating now. Faith leaders in Chicago probably preach about this every Sunday. Chicago politicians aren't just ignoring the South Side and you know that. Every time one of these situations plays out, the first response by a subset of people is to bring up Chicago and black on black crime. If you think things aren't being done about it you're a fucking idiot.
Also, use a god damn space between words. Dear god.
Did my spacing really bother you that much?You think those schools are doing a great job?We can't have a real talk about racism in this country,we all know systemic racism is real and needs to be weeded out,but when talking about race relations people don't wanna have it.Things can't be PC when having a real race relations 'discussion' so things will not get better in general society,but hey if I don't think like you I must be a hate monger.
You think those schools are doing a great job?
No school is perfect, especially one that is just starting and growing annually. Moreover, the funding and admissions process needs some work but it's a black athlete trying to help his community so you should applaud it.
Roughly 90% of its 240 inaugural students either met or exceeded their expected learning goals in both math and reading, making the school the district's most successful. Initially scoring in the lowest one-percentile in both fields, third and fourth graders respectively rose to the ninth and 16th percentile in reading, and to the 18th and 30th percentile in math. By the end of the school year, the school proved to be among the fastest growing performance-wise nationwide.
Students who graduate with a 3.0 get a full-ride to the University of Akron. So yeah, I think it's doing a good thing and early returns are generally positive. Have anything to say about that?
Rose's school hasn't been as effective and needs work. All of DPS needs work.
I don't think like you I must be a hate monger.
No see, the problem is you come in with this edgy attitude about race and immediately get hit with some information that shows you're wrong. Rather than saying crap, my bad I'm out of my element, you keep coming. So I keep responding hoping your thick skull will soften and you might take a moment to recollect on some of the information shared today to be better in the future. Instead it's a victim complex, calling out "PC" culture, and generally whining.
You want to talk about race? Great, let's set up some time and a place that isn't distracting from this issue and this post. Race relations have been a tough subject since 1776. Things have changed, but there is a laundry list of things that should could be covered. You didn't bring those things up, you just spouted off about black people shooting black people.
You could't be more wrong,but if it makes you feel good to attack someone with a different thought than yours.I hope you protest the 19 unarmed caucasians shot by police in the last year as well.Oh wait I moved to a new topic you must have got me on the last one.Iam sure the parents of those 19 could care less about systemic racism,or maybe they do.
spurgeon, why is it so difficult for you to have a discussion about systemic racial inequality without deflecting to another issue in an attempt to create straw-man arguments and false equivalencies.
Shall we discuss the Holocaust, Mao, or Stalin to further deflect? Perhaps Africans selling other Africans during the slave trade will make you feel safer? What is it about these protests that have you so defensive?
I don't think anybody with any sense would suggest this is the only injustice currently present in the world, nor the worst injustice to have ever fallen upon mankind. But your need to change the narrative suggests something more deceitful within you, and your motives are questionable at best.