Harbaugh extension?
I'm really surprised this isn't the #1 subject on this board. Is the UM administration just gonna let Jim's current contract run to its final days? Please, no. The clause/dates mentioned in these articles seem nuts.
How is the program supposed to recruit with what looks like a lame duck coach?
https://www.maizenbrew.com/2020/1/22/21076155/michigan-football-jim-harbaugh-contract
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:20 AM ^
once again the board does not disappoint with giving bad opinions and content
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:38 PM ^
I think the most logical poster here is the one who explained how the Cube on Central Campus is actually an object of worship for the global Luciferian cult.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
I wouldn't be suprised if he makes his way back to the NFL at that time. I never thought he'd be at UM for the remainder of his coaching career.
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:10 AM ^
I’m still very much of the opinion that he’s going to have to “win something” here to really gain the leverage he’d want in the NFL. I don’t think he’d take just any NFL job, and I think he’d want more personnel power than he had before. My impression is that he’ll need to change the current narrative a bit. One guy’s opinion.
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:14 AM ^
I wouldn't extend him. He isn't dumb and is going to want a huge buyout.
The way I see it is that if he can beat OSU in 2020 or 2021 then he'll have earned an extension at that point. If he ends up 0-7 against OSU he needs to go.
Harbaugh is viewed as "safe". He won't ever embarrass us. He won't lose to App St or Toledo. He won't lose to Purdue, Illinois, Maryland, or Rutgers. He will be 50/50 against our peers like Wisconsin, PSU, and ND (Generally winning at home and losing on the road). He will keep MSU in their place. (We are a dropped snap away from being 4-1 over the last 5 years and the rivalry is swinging in our direction for the foreseeable future).
The price to pay for this "safety" is we will never beat OSU. I think a large portion of the fanbase and the administration has accepted this and isn't willing to risk being embarrassed to chase after beating OSU.
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:23 AM ^
Ok, I’ll play along. So let’s say he beats OSU in 2021, and has no contract in place, what leverage does UofM have in those negotiations?
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:51 AM ^
UM would have the leverage of the last 7 years. But honestly if we beat OSU in 2021 we are probably going to the big ten championship game and on to the CFP. So Harbaugh would have earned a big contract.
That or its his Earl Bruce game.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:21 PM ^
That isn’t much leverage when your successful coach (assuming those scenario holds) doesn’t have a contract and people want him, which they would in this scenario. If he doesn’t beat OSU, and you allow him to flap in the wind, good luck hiring anyone worth a damn.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:39 PM ^
I would hardly call 1-6 against OSU successful. But I see your point.
If in year 7 harbaugh wins the big ten and doesn't want to renew then let him go. Presumably someone else could come in and do something with the talent he has amassed.
Personally I was hoping that the dolphins hired him this year so we don't have to "fire" him. I saw that as the win-win exit scenario. Maybe Flores will get fired in 2 years?
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
He is going 0-7 against OSU, and they will extend him, we are living in Buckeye Purgatory
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:52 AM ^
If he goes 0-6 next winter. UM will look crazy to extend him. But they'll basically HAVE to cut bait or double-down, no possible way they don't make a decision after the next OSU game, with only one season left.
If they truly want to double-down on the guy, the time is now, no? That's why I don't get the angry vitriol on this topic. It should very much be on the table for those that want to keep the guy long-term. It obviously helps with his recruiting. His future. The program's future. And whatever hope is left of Jim beating the Buckeyes.
If they kick the can on an extension, then basically this next season is Jim's "hot seat" year and a "lame duck" year all rolled into one toxic nightmare headed straight for Columbus.
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:53 AM ^
maybe a "hot seat" plus "lame duck" year is the motivation Harbaugh needs.
Who knows...
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:50 PM ^
If he ends up 0-7 against OSU he needs to go.
I can see this happening. Even if it does, I do not see him getting the John Cooper treatment.
This is because, institutionally, Michigan has chosen not to do certain things required to ascend to the OSU/Clemson/LSU/Alabama level.
That said, there are a ton of things under Harbaugh's control that he can improve that could lead to the big road win this program needs.
We have discussed those things repeatedly, but I will repost them here:
- Attention to detail - practice and drill in such a way that the dumb penalties like false starts and delay of game are completely avoided
- Time management - develop and practice better plans for time critical situations like the end of the half and the end of the game. Ensure no timeouts are wasted for lack of a plan.
- Motivation - develop a technique to ensure that there are no more flat starts to games. This goes double for road games.
- Player development - DPJ is the most obvious example. Why aren't his stats within a country mile of Jerry Jeudy's? How did we land the #1 WR and not come anywhere close to realizing his potential?
- QB Play - Probably the most mystifying of these items. JH played QB at the highest level. He's coached and developed QBs at the highest level. He knows what good QBs and good QB play should look like. Leverage that experience to improve QB play at Michigan fergodsake!
I'm sure I've forgotten an item or two, but the five points listed above are totally under JH's control. If he really takes a long, hard look at himself and his staff he can improve all five by orders of magnitude. Doing so would hugely improve M's chances of a big road win in 2020 or 2021, and possibly enable M to beat OSU in one of those years.
January 23rd, 2020 at 7:44 PM ^
Bizarre to call these totally under Harbaugh’s control. Particularly on #5 - if he knew why he was striking out on qbs, I’m pretty sure he’d fix it.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:22 PM ^
Why don't you explain to us good folk here in flyover why these points aren't under Harbaugh's control.
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:54 PM ^
Harbaugh is viewed as "safe". He won't ever embarrass us. He won't lose to App St or Toledo. He won't lose to Purdue, Illinois, Maryland, or Rutgers.
Can this really be guaranteed? Obviously it's pure conjecture on my part, but there could be a time when he becomes complacent like Lloyd. The sad reality is that Father Time catches us all.
On the flip side, there was a time when Purdue was coached by Joe Tiller and led by Drew Brees. That scenario could happen again.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:55 PM ^
Sure, but tiller brees purdue was a rose bowl team.
Hoke and rrod didnt lose to rose bowl caliber purdue, illinois, rutgers, and maryland.....
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
In my humble opinion, it really doesn't matter who our head coach is when it comes to talent disparity. The disparity with OSU and some SEC teams will exist well into the foreseeable future and I'm not sure a coach is going to be able to affect that too much. Cleaner, more ethical programs will never be able to compete against those who lack the same ethical standards. I think most would agree that pay-for-play is why Clemson rose to prominence so quickly.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:21 PM ^
We can have far worse of a HC than Harbaugh. Just look at our past with RR and Hoke for example. You bring in a new coach and he may only win 6 to 7 games per year. Harbaugh averages 9 wins per season and in a few of those years, if he had an elite QB, he would have won the B1G and made the playoffs.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:33 PM ^
I don't think RRod/Hoke could happen again. That was just a perfect storm of idiocy. And our irrational fear as a fan base is clouding our judgement around Harbaugh's performance.
For one the RRod transition depleted the roster as we went from I formation to run based spread. and as we got the roster built for run based spread along came Hoke and buddies and they attempted to transition us to an I form drop back pass power run game. Harbaugh came in with the same mentality (I form power run game, drop back PA pass game) and with basically the same roster, just an Iowa castoff QB as an upgrade, was able to win 10 games and was ~10 seconds and an act of God away from winning an 11th in his first year.
Any new coach is going to implement a pass based spread, very similar to what Gattis is implementing now and we do have the roster in place to run that successfully. So we just won't have the transition costs that we did with RRod and Hoke.
So we have to ask... Can we get a better recruiter? A better motivator? A better player development coach? A better game day coach? Generally I think the answer to these questions is yes.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:21 PM ^
We can have far worse of a HC than Harbaugh. Just look at our past with RR and Hoke for example. You bring in a new coach and he may only win 6 to 7 games per year. Harbaugh averages 9 wins per season and in a few of those years, if he had an elite QB, he would have won the B1G and made the playoffs.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:21 PM ^
We can have far worse of a HC than Harbaugh. Just look at our past with RR and Hoke for example. You bring in a new coach and he may only win 6 to 7 games per year. Harbaugh averages 9 wins per season and in a few of those years, if he had an elite QB, he would have won the B1G and made the playoffs.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:24 PM ^
Pay for play or was it the hiring of Jeff Scott and Tony Elliot (who were the Co-OCs for the last 5 years)?
Everyone is so quick to say the successful programs are paying players, and maybe they are. But maybe they are also really good game day coaches too. i.e. week of practice, game plan, and then executing that game plan on Saturdays.
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:57 AM ^
He’s extension 1982. If you get his voicemail you can press “0” and that’ll bring you back to me
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
I have zero doubt Harbaugh will be 0-7 against OSU. It is what it is.
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:18 AM ^
Wow. The sports media is really hungry for stories. Wait until baseball season.
These are garbage takes. He's got two years left on his contract. If it were January 2021, this story would make sense. But suggesting we are anywhere close to the "final days" of his contract is pretty distorting, and damn near false.
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:31 AM ^
I don't think it's that big of a deal. He wasn't even mentioned for NFL jobs, he has no reason to leave for another college gig, and the school has no reason to fire him unless they go dirty (and then, like Georgia, it won't matter).
Kids know he isn't going anywhere. Kids also know they aren't beating Ohio State.
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:31 AM ^
I'm fairly certain he's got a "lifetime contract" agreement with Warde.
But I do secretly hope he leaves sooner rather than later.
Great guy, average coach, bet on himself and lost. It happens.
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:55 AM ^
Recruit: "You mean, I get coached by Jim Harbaugh.... or eventually someone better than Jim Harbaugh?"
Not sure what the downside is here.
January 23rd, 2020 at 12:18 PM ^
Four 3rd place or lower Big Ten east finishes in five years. Shocker he hasn’t been given a life long contract.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:42 PM ^
But that 2018 East Division Co-Championship.
Where is the drake meme when you need it.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:13 PM ^
Hail to the Life Champions and Moral Victors!
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
Jim will be in A2 as long as Jim wants to be in A2.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:18 PM ^
Yes.
Aside from being Harbaugh and however you feel about that...there is no one even close to coaching experience, knowledge, and skill that Michigan would get to replace him.
For those people who are adamant about Fire Harbaugh (or wanna downvote this :) )...please put forth a short list of 3 coaches that would be higher performers and realistic options for M football.
Thank you.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:16 PM ^
Presumably in your mind there are no options that would satisfy your criteria of high performers and realistic options but I'll give you a list for thought in no particular order. And this is just a list of current head coaches. Once you start looking at assistants the list could grow.
Bill Clark at UAB has an impressive resume. Especially considering they shut his program down for 2 years and he managed to come back strong.
Bryan Harsin. He might be a Boise St lifer but he would be worth looking at.
Scott Satterfield. I have to think UM could poach Louisville's coach (Especially given that Brohm stayed at Purdue), but maybe not. Great record at App St transitioning them to FBS.
Luke Fickell. He is doing some impressive stuff at Cincy. Perhaps on the back of OSU sloppy seconds in recruiting (Rumors are that OSU steers kids they don't want to Fickell, presumably they'd stop doing that if he were at UM). But you'd have to think he knows how to recruit Ohio and could be a great chance to flip some Ohio recruits. Maybe he'd bring a chip on the shoulder attitude to the program similar to Bo when he came to Ann Arbor from another Southwest Ohio program.
Josh Heupel is 22-4 in two years at UCF. Probably still too early to tell, but he might be worth keeping an eye on. Coming from the OU background I'm sure he would know how use 3 NFL WRs.
Chris Klieman. 4 FCS titles in 5 years. Probably could get him to jump from KSU to UM. Probably another one to keep an eye on.
Matt Campbell. Admittedly, his shine is wearing off the longer he stays at ISU. Rumors are he turned down an interview with the Jets so maybe he is a college guy.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:48 PM ^
That list is... interesting...
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:59 PM ^
We've probably missed the boat on Rhule, Norvel, and Mullen. Those guys aren't realistic options anymore. But I think they will end up being darn good coaches.
January 23rd, 2020 at 7:01 PM ^
I don't think Fickell is realistic. He was born in Columbus, played at OSU, and did most of his coaching at OSU. He's a Buckeye for life.
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:13 PM ^
Well apparently he is a bearcat now. Sometimes rejection can be a big motivator. He might be someone to at least send some feelers out to.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:23 PM ^
You are only looking at one part of this. Ok so let's assume there isn't one single coach out there that would perform better than Harbaugh (that is 100% debatable). The question then becomes, how many coaches can they pay 1/4 of what they are paying Harbaugh and achieve the same results (averaging 3rd in the division with zero trophies on any level)? The answer to that question has a much larger pool than the question you are asking.
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:01 PM ^
When we talk about Firing Harbaugh, is the main concern really his salary? That's an institutional/administrative issue, not a fan, booster, and I would also argue, not really an alumni issue, to weigh here.
If we pay a coach 1/3 of the salary with the same results, is the fanbase happy? Will supporters turn to saying: "Oh yeah, these results are still frustrating (or unacceptable) but at least we're paying him below P5 baseline salaries" ...?
Doubt it.
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:25 PM ^
The point is it frees up money to spend elsewhere. If siz years ago, someone came up to you and said here is the deal, we are going to pay Jim Harbaugh to come back and be the head coach here. Michigan guy, qb whisperer, yada yada yada. But we are going to pay him top 5 pay in the country for his position. After 5 years he will have an average finish of #3 in the division, his highest finish will be #2 in the division, 0-5 against OSU, and no trophies to even look at (well one Citrus Bowl something) including a 1-4 bowl record. Your response is going to be why are we paying that much money for that production? Find someone cheaper, and use the money to enhance the program elsewhere.
January 24th, 2020 at 1:43 PM ^
Agree to disagree.
I just don't see the difference in salaries between Harbaugh and a potential new coach willing to come in at a Harbaugh or P5 salary discount making that much of a difference in enhancing the program elsewhere...unless we transitioned to bagmen.
And again, if another coach making less money has the same or similar results, I don't think we'd be saying "That's OK...because salary." It would just be another Fire That Guy campaign which would be reinforced by shouts of "WHY CAN'T WE PAY FOR A TOP-TIER COACH?! WE HAVE THE MONEY!" from the core fanbase.
January 23rd, 2020 at 5:51 PM ^
Too bad Ohio State didn’t think like that when they had John Cooper. Those idiots actually thought a guy from Youngstown State was a better option.
January 24th, 2020 at 4:30 PM ^
Yeah, if only we'd taken a stab at someone from Ball State/San Diego State or West Virginia...
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:32 PM ^
At this point I don't really care who the coach is, because I don't think the results are going to be any different whether Harbaugh stays or goes. So I'm indifferent to Harbaugh still being here. At least he's proven he can beat everyone else on his schedule. So that's.....something.
OSU, on top of being a better program in every aspect, has so many natural, built-in advantages that Michigan will never have. Not making excuses. That's just the the truth. Talent-rich state and they don't have to share their state with any other P5 schools. Besides LSU, who else really has that?
Lastly, they just flat-out care about this game far more than Michigan does. Michigan wants to win as badly as possible, but only within the context of this being just a game. OSU wants this as badly as possible because to them, its actual warfare. Its the difference between living and dying. That is their culture and how they approach this game, and its something Michigan hasn't been able to match in the last 20 years.
I thought Harbaugh, having played in this game, would be able to match that and then some. Based on results that does not appear to be the case. I don't know how you fix what's broken. In fact I think the only thing that can level the playing field right now is OSU has to royally fuck up their next head coach hire. And considering they've made slam dunk hires ever since Cooper left, I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon.
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:33 PM ^
You talk as IF thats a bad thing?
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:54 PM ^
It's psychotic in the current media environment around Harbaugh for him to not have an extension already done and dusted. The recruiting is shitty enough without throwing logs on the fire of "Is Michigan getting sick of Harbaugh!?"
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:59 PM ^
i’m so thankful I double-posted