Happy Juneteenth
HJ! Happy happy Juneteenth.
Hooray for the Navy in exposing me to different perspectives and what not: I learned about Juneteenth almost 20 years ago thanks to a black roommate of mine. I think he was from Texas, but I don't remember for sure. So I've had the opposite experience: I've been a little surprised to learn the knowledge of it isn't that widespread.
FWIW, this dude insisted it should be pronounced "Juneteenf" and would correct other black dudes on it, much to their bemusement. Different perspectives....some of them very weird.
Why June 19 though? It doesn't make sense. June 19 doesn't symbolize the first slaves freed, nor does it symbolize the last slaves freed?
If we were going to make a national holiday for the end of slavery, why not December 6 (1865) when the 13th Amendment was ratified officially ending slavery?
June 19 (1865), just freed some slaves in Texas where the Union Army hadn't been as of yet to enforce the Emancipation Proclamation, which is why it was a local holiday. The amount of slaves nationwide freed on June 19 was in the single digits percentage wise.
Moreover, 400,000 people remained enslaved AFTER June 19, 1865 in the border states (Missouri, Kentucky, West Virgina, Maryland, and Delaware) - and it was December 6, 1865 that freed all slaves with the ratification of the 13th Amendment.
Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation (Announced September 22, 1862 to take effect January 1, 1863) did not free the slaves in the border states because: (1) Legally speaking slavery was constitutionally protected and the E.P. may have been illegal as it. (2) Lincoln needed the border states politically and militarily - and abolishing slavery was very controversial in 1862 politically and could have hurt the war effort had it been enforced on loyal pro-slavery areas.
December 6 (1865) makes more sense as a national holiday to celebrate the end of slavery.
I mean I don’t think it really matters which exact date is used. Christmas is celebrated on December 25th even though we know Jesus was almost certainly not born on that day. But that doesn’t take away from the importance or significance of the holiday to everyone around the globe that celebrates. I think the important thing is that we have a day on the calendar that sheds light on slavery and celebrates the end of it and a really important milestone in the continued fight for civil rights
Logically a national holiday should represent a national date/event. Which is why the freed slaves themselves in the late 1800s celebrated nationwide September 22 (EP Announced), January 1 (EP took effect), December 6 (13th Amendment ratified), and July 4 (fulfillment of the Dec. Of Indepence) as days of Jubilee. Only Texas freed people celebrated June 19.
Unlike some places in Europe we don't celebrate VE Day for victory in Europe during WWII as a national holiday. Choosing Juneteenth as the national day of Jubilee would be like celebrating victory in Europe based on when specifically Texas got their factories converted to war time production instead of a national date like when Germany surrendered or D-Day.
June 19 signifies a very small percent of slaves getting freed at a local level who were neither the first or last in the march towards abolition.
Right - and didn't we sign the Declaration on July 2nd? But the 4th is when word of it reached most people so that's how the celebration ended up being that day.
July 4 makes more sense than Juneteenth.
The Continental Congress voted on a resolution to declare independence on July 2. But that vote required that they actually draft, edit, and then vote on a specific Declaration of Indepence. That took until July 4. July 4 makes some sense as that was the day that the official Declaration of Indepence was adopted by the Continental Congress and released to the world. Look at the official Declaration of Indepence, it is dated July 4.
Junteenth does not make as much sense. Only a tiny percentage of slaves localized in Texas found out they were free from the Emancipation Proclamation on June 19. They were not the first freed nor were they the last freed. Juneteenth was a small localized holiday. The vast majority of freed slaves never once celebrated Juneteenth in their entire lives, but they did celebrate September 22, January 1, and December 6 as Days of Jubilee.
Dear Dunesman,
May I call you WildBack?
Looking up something else, I ran across your interesting Juneteenth posts. (And your history degrees: me too.) I applaud your use of evidence bout events.
Yet at the same time, may I suggest that the development of traditions comes from causes supported by evidence, but also influences, interpretations, arguments, as well as other traditions.
So, for instance, July 4th may make more sense than Juneteenth, Juneteenth makes more sense—as an actual event based on a clearly identifiable cause and repeatedly celebrated—than Thanksgiving.
As always with these kinds of posts, interesting history lessons on MGoBlog. I appreciate the breadth of knowledge and your collective willingness to take the time to share it. Happy Juneteenth!
Saw one of my idols, Angela Davis, speak yesterday. I saw Poor Righteous Teachers and Jeru the Damaga tonight. Revolutionary politics and consciousness rap...
Happy Juneteenth!
Thank you for this post, o.p.
Curious what inspires you about Angela Davis? Her doctoral advisor was Herbert Marcuse of Frankfurt School fame. Marcuse notes his influences, among others, as Marx and Hegel.
Likely don’t follow her work as closely as you but does she still support Communism? She was a card carrying member and a Communist Party VP candidate at one time.
Thank you for displaying how conservative intolerance works. Couldn't have asked for a better example than a vapid, paranoid knee-jerk reaction without any actual substance.
Can you show us on the doll where Marx or Hegel hurt you?
Paranoid knee jerk reaction and conservative intolerance? I merely asked why he idolizes Davis, that they influenced her work, and she was (still is?) supportive of communism.
TBH, Personally not a fan of any of the above, which is why I asked. At the same time, not disparaging anyone.
Please. If you actually cared about Angela Davis' thoughts on communism, you'd just read her books instead of hypothetical concern-trolling her past associates on a sports blog.
Yes, conservative intolerance. Unless you're going to try to make an argument that conservatives have ever been tolerant of anyone with communist viewpoints (have fun with that, Senator McCarthy), what you were doing is continuing the knee-jerk intolerant reaction that conservatives have against communists and communism by ad-hominem attacking your boogeymen Marx and Hegel without bringing up any criticisms at all of them or their work. Y'all treat Marx and Hegel like you should treat Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones.
The ideas of Karl Marx led directly to Leninist communism and the repression and deaths of hundreds of millions of people over more than a century, in countries all over the world. The Soviet Union was truly an evil empire and countries today that operate on a Marxist philosophy are still the direct cause of the suffering and repression of their people.
So yes, I, as a conservative, have a knee-jerk hatred and intolerance of Karl Marx and his ilk, and all the evil done in his name and in support of his ideas, and am fiercely proud of it. Fuck Karl Marx.
Ah yes, conservative hate and hypocrisy rears its head. You guys can't keep the masks on for long. It's adorable how threatened you are by workers owning the means of production.
It's also cute that you have such strong opinions about things you obviously know nothing about. If you knew even the first thing about communism, you'd know that Lenin and Marx disagreed about the revolution and implementation of government after. Maybe you could go into detail about Marxism/Leninism v Trotskyism since you know so much about how different communists think? And please go into more detail about how Marxism directly led to repression and death, with references.
"The ideas of Karl Marx led directly to Leninist communism and the repression and deaths of hundreds of millions of people over more than a century, in countries all over the world."
Prove it. And while you're at it, prove that capitalism is better. Or even different. Have you ever even read Das Kapital?
You're aware that while this was happening in Russia, robber barons like Andrew Carnegie were massacring people with their private armies, black people were being lynched, and the KKK basically ran the south, right? I guess it's okay with you when innocent people get murdered by powerful people if it's under capitalism.
Furthermore, if everything Marx is so evil like you pretend, why is the standard of living better in communist Vietnam than in the US? Pretty sure the water is better in Saigon than in Flint.
All societies that exist today were built on violence. Especially the US, Russia, and China. Being pro-capitalist violence and anti-socialist violence doesn't make your position valid, it just makes you a hypocrite. Capitalism itself is violence whether you acknowledge it or not (see: Flint water). Conservatives like you just pretend that your violence is different and okay than everyone else's violence because you're exceptional or some shit. The rest of us know that conservatism is just systematic violence, white supremacy, and hypocrisy.
Just ask all of the countries that the US invaded/bombed because of socialism. Ask the governments that the CIA has overthrown in the Middle East, South and Central America, and Southeast Asia. You know, unless you're pretending that Cambodia or Nicaragua attacked the US first. Or just keep the downvotes coming because you know I'm right and you cowards have nothing valid to say in rebuttal.
That's a lot of long paragraphs to say "but wuddabout." Defending the evils of communism by pointing out the flaws in capitalism is a pathetic argument.
The KKK is evil and so is communism. Dick-measuring contests between the two don't get us anywhere.
I don't owe you references when you don't provide any for the insane claim that the standard of living in Vietnam is higher than in the US. Funny that you use that as a benchmark when anyone who spends even a cursory amount of time studying Vietnam knows that it has de-collectivized, de-socialized, and moved farther away from actual communism and toward a market-based capitalism than any previously-communist country outside of Europe.
You don't owe anyone anything, but if you want anyone to take your opinion seriously then references are how adults do that. You're the one that initially made the stereotypically ignorant claim that communism was somehow evil, and like most of you people when asked, you still haven't detailed how it's worse or even different than capitalism (which is somehow less evil to you lol).
I'm just pushing back on them because that's hypocritical, wrong, and logically inconsistent. Don't get mad at me because your arguments are crap.
The standard of living in some places in Vietnam is better than some places in the US. This is a fact whether you get upset about it or not. They currently have a lower unemployment rate, a lower inflation rate, a better cost of living, better prescription prices, and better access to medical care.
https://www.worlddata.info/country-comparison.php?country1=VNM&country2=USA
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2014.1141
The fact is that all societies are a combination of socialism and capitalism and that neither are inherently good or evil. Conservatives are the only group that are in denial about this because they want to continue to exploit workers in the US with unregulated capitalism.
Too much socialism? Bad. See Nicaragua.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-revolution-eats-itself-in-nicaragua
Too much capitalism? Bad. See Abu Dhabi.
https://www.academia.edu/3657158/The_History_of_Capitalism_in_Dubai
Yeah. So anytime you want to go into detail about how socialism is inherently evil, I'll be around.
Have fun arguing that the slave workers in Dubai that live in a room with 12 other dudes and no shower and work 75 hours a week with no healthcare or human rights deserve it, and that they can "bootstrap" their way to something better. Sure would be a terrible thing if those workers unionized and negotiated better working conditions for themselves because "Marxism is evil," right?
Also if you think Vietnam has moved farther away from socialism than China, well, just know that whenever you read this I'll still be laughing at how wrong that is.
BTW, if Marxism is "evil," then what's "good?" And by what standard?
"Defending the evils of communism by pointing out the flaws in capitalism is a pathetic argument."
Why are they the "flaws" of capitalism, but the "evils" of communism?
Aren't they either the "evils" of capitalism and the "evils" of communism, or the "flaws" of capitalism and the "flaws" of communism?
Because capitalism is fundamentally a good system and communism is fundamentally an evil one. Anyone can see that capitalism is imperfect, but it has lifted the standard of living for billions of people to the point where today we have the richest poor people in history. Communism, on the other hand, is both poverty-inducing and repressive. No communist country has ever seen its people living in prosperity and freedom.
Yawn. More unfounded hate, with no links to anything backing it up. Hurr durr, capitalism good, socialism evil, blah blah, you think this is a cogent argument? All it shows is your closed-mindedness towards new ideas, an inability to logically counter them, an inability to understand any concept beyond a simple dichotomy, and an unwillingness to challenge your current (hilariously off-base) assumptions.
Capitalism lifts people up? Is that why the US has such insane income inequality? Kissinger was really lifting people up in Laos "to fight communism," albeit literally with bombs.
Thoughtlessly regurgitating conservative talking points without even going to the effort of a rudimentary google search to corroborate your viewpoints is not debating. You literally don't know anything about communism except for just repeating what the other conservatives told you to say. I'm embarrassed for you.
If you want your opinions to be taken seriously, before you say anything about communism again you should really use this new thing called google to search how the US has had immediate hostility towards any country in the world that called themselves Socialist. Try reading Das Kapital or The Conquest of Bread. Learn the differences between the schools of socialism.
Realistically though, the only reason you even have that opinions is because your corporate masters want you to.
https://qz.com/1802881/how-socialism-became-anti-american/
Conservatism always needs an "other" to alternately attack, hate, and fear. Jews, black people, gays, trans people, immigrants... How have you people not caught on to the fact that your hate is being weaponized?
I mean. . .why would anyone want to respond to your diatribe and just have their views attacked as not valid? Nothing you said suggests you're open to debating in good faith. Even if you're totally correct and my views are indeed evil and terrible, this wouldn't be the way to convince me. I appreciate your candor and passion, but I think I'll pass.
To be fair, I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm speaking out against injustice that undeniably exists and the chips will fall where they do.
If people are offended by my pointing out the violent factual history and current context of American conservatism, good. Stay mad and do something about it. Hold your leaders accountable. Prove that some of you have principles beyond doing what you're told.
American conservatism is violent. Not all conservatives are violent, of course. Just as not all violent people are conservative. But the ideology itself is inherently violent. It's just a fact. It wasn't socialists in the Klan kidnapping, torturing, and murdering black men for centuries in the south, it was and still is conservatives. Socialists didn't tie Matthew Shepard to a fence and torture him, or murder Emmett Till for allegedly whistling at a woman, or start attacking Hispanic sailors for wearing funny suits, or pack themselves into a U-Haul truck in matching outfits to assault gay people.
Only conservatives are saying that school shooters have the right to murder kindergarteners. Conservatives are the people arguing that a child is better being left orphaned than adopted by a same-sex couple. You won't find those viewpoints in any other political group in America. If people don't want to be called violent, racist terrorists, they should stop associating with a party of violent, racist terrorists or kick them out of their group. The truth hurts.
I don't believe that most people are capable of downloading new information and altering their viewpoints accordingly, especially online. But I do believe in and enjoy pushing back against violent, intolerant propaganda like racism, and I like arguing for sport. I'm just as bad in real life. :-)
Angela Davis publicly excused violent oppression within communist countries that murdered people for thought crimes. She also publicly supported Jim Jones, the guy who did the mass-murder-suicide cult.
She is no MLK and not the best choice to be a hero of freedom.
If someone wants to idolize her, okay, that is their right. But questioning her seems intelligent and prudent.
If questioning someone who was okay with governments murdering people for thought crimes and supported Jim Jones makes one an "intolerant conservative," then I wonder if you know the definition of irony and that it used to be liberal to support freedoms.
It wasn't the "questioning of someone" that I take issue with. In fact, I agree with you that those are valid criticisms of her and her work.
It's using the dog whistle boogeymen of Marx and Hegel, who never even met Angela Davis and have only superficial similarities to her philosophy that I take issue with. If the man's got an issue with Angela Davis that's one thing, but the "call things and people you don't like communists and dehumanize them" conservative strategy has been in place for almost a century.
MLK, however, did have some excellent insight on and experience with communism as a dog whistle. Because even back then it was used to rile up conservative mobs to weaponize their hate.
https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/communism
"In 1976 the U.S. Senate committee reviewing the FBI’s investigation of King noted: “We have seen no evidence establishing that either of those Advisers attempted to exploit the civil rights movement to carry out the plans of the Communist Party” (Senate Select Committee, Book III, 85). From wiretaps initiated in 1963, the FBI fed controversial information to the White House and offered it to “friendly” reporters in an effort to discredit King. In 1964 King told an audience in Jackson, Mississippi, he was “sick and tired of people saying this movement has been infiltrated by Communists … There are as many Communists in this freedom movement as there are Eskimos in Florida”
I see your point.
I am a socialist and an African-American. I see race, as she does, as a chief component of a caste system necessary to stabilize an economic system that, by its nature, creates massive disparities in wealth distribution. Caste systems allow people to punch downward and accept the system as is because wealth disparities and the problems they create are blamed on lower caste members. The working class--which now includes white collar workers--are divided and conquered rather than united against the true source of the disparities.
I've read Marcuse, Benjamin, and Adorno--I'm also inspired by the Frankfurt School. I also support a form of communism--not Stalinism or whatever the fuck Mao was doing or China is now--over capitalism. Especially fucking late stage capitalism. Before hedge funders deplete the last of the resources we have.
Every single person that I know that publicly says they are a capitalist doesn't support the corporatacracy where instead of free markets the politicians do the biddings of giant corporations from regulations to Federal Reserve Policy.
Some common ground is my point.
Akeela.
Ah man, haven't thought about Jeru in years, glad still going strong.
I wandered in for the comments, and you all did not disappoint!
Nothing wrong with the holiday in itself. It's actually really great and meaningful. The problem is that it was a very special regional/cultural thing that wasn't commercialized until now when it was made a token national holiday to once again create the appearance of progress, but does about as much good as the other cringey virtue signally performative activism that's so popular now. The classic response is "Well it doesn't do any harm and even good things done for selfish reasons can be good" or some version of that. Except that's bullshit. For sustainable real change to occur it's imperative that institutions and people broadly have the right motivations, perspective and true intentions behind what they say and do. Their heart and minds must be in it. It'skinda like the whole forcing people to apologize thing that happens now. The "offensive" first thing said is the true view and then then we act like bc someone apologizes or we've sensored or retracted the statement it somehow has changes their hearts or does anything at all. It doesn't do anything. It's all performative to protect or increase profit or public image and we all know that. Hopefully long run it will develop a more genuine meaningful foundation.
And this is one of many reasons why I think this nation will be no more in about 10-15 years.