"Fire this coach!": A Michigan Basketball tradition
Michigan Daily
February 21, 1973-
According to Michigan Athletic Director Don Canham those South End Crisler Arena vocalists who have filled the air with shouts of "Orr must go" and variations on that theme, have done so in vain. Canham indicated to the Daily that Coach John Orr, much maligned for his cage squad's off again-on again performance will be on the bench leading the Wolverines next season.
"Orr will be back next season," Canham intoned. "I could not envision the season without him back."
***
In the past few weeks Orr has been under a good deal of criticism. His squad was expected by many to capture the Big Ten crown. However, the Wolverines have faltered at points during the Big Ten season and presently hold a 6-4 record.
During the defeat filled weeks many students and fans expressed more than mild displeasure with Orr's performance as coach.
The remainder of Johnny Orr's career-
| Season | Record | B1G | Place | Postseason |
| 1973-74 | 22-5 | 12-2 | T-1st | NCAA Elite Eight |
| 1974-75 | 19-8 | 12-6 | 2nd | NCAA Round of 32 |
| 1975-76 | 25-7 | 14-4 | 2nd | NCAA National Runner-Up |
| 1976-77 | 26-4 | 16-2 | 1st | NCAA Sweet Sixteen |
| 1977-78 | 16-11 | 11-7 | T-4th | |
| 1978-79 | 15-12 | 8-12 | 6th | |
| 1979-80 | 17-13 | 8-10 | T-6th | NIT Quarterfinals |
Michigan Daily
January 27, 1989-
Fans fired up to see Frieder flee
Crisler Arena crowds have been telling Bill Frieder to throw his trademark towel in some other town.
These fans, who proudly carry "Fire Frieder" and "We hate Bobby Knight, but at least he can coach" signs, have expanded their vocal chords recently, booing Frieder at every occasion. Monday, the crowd jeered Frieder louder than archnemesis Bob Knight.
Some campus-area apartments now have "Fire Frieder" signs hanging in the windows.
People were losing their minds over a coach having these results recently-
| Season | Record | B1G | Place | Postseason |
| 1984-85 | 26-4 | 16-2 | 1st | NCAA Round of 32 |
| 1985-86 | 28-5 | 14-4 | 1st | NCAA Round of 32 |
| 1986-87 | 20-12 | 10-8 | 5th | NCAA Round of 32 |
| 1987-88 | 26-8 | 13-5 | 2nd | NCAA Sweet Sixteen |
100-29 record the previous 4 years.
I know I wasn't around back then, and sure, the NCAA flameouts stand out. But fans back then didn't have to wait THAT much longer for a few long runs...
When people wanted Orr and Frieder gone, neither of them had any long run in the NCAA Tournament.
John Beilein already has a Final Four and two Elite Eights. And some people want him gone two years after them when the entire starting five on that Final Four team is playing in the NBA.
This is a case of two things.
1) People having the same expectations the Football program has and placing them on the shoulders of the Basketball program.
The Basketball program has a good history.
The Football program is arguably the top program in the sport all-time.
2) Know who you are. What good coach would want to come here if we fired one of the most respected men in the game 2-3 years after runs to the Elite Eight and Final Four? There were a lot of people flapping their gums in that 500+ comment threads, and none of them had realistic replacement suggestions.
This isn't Duke, Kansas or Kentucky.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:15 PM ^
I despise the "know who you are" attitude, and find it a little sad that younger Michigan fans display it. It's the attitude of consistencey, of maintaining the status quo and never hoping to achieve a greater stature (e.g., 'Let's not hope to be at the level of Duke, let's just be happy being us'). My hope is that this (non-Harbaughian) kind of thinking will become less and less prevelant in Michigan sports.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:39 PM ^
There is a reason we think of schools as either basketball school or a football school.
There is nothing wrong with aiming higher. But historically, its difficult for schools to sustain success in both sports simultaneously. The only Michigan coaches to have won more B1G titles than Beilein are Dave Strack and E.J. Mather, the latter of whom coached Bennie Oosterban.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:15 PM ^
Discussing Beilein's future is a waste of time. He will be here as long as he wants. When he was hired he was known as a "lemonade out of lemons" type coach and nothing he has shown since he was hired is inconsistent with what it was like when he was hired. He snare a top recruit once and a while but he can't compete with Izzo on in-state recruits and he can't compete with Calipari, K, Self and Pitino on a national basis. We are not going to get the top talent and will win the B1G or advance in the NCAA only when we get lucky to have players who outperform there recruiting rankings. More years than not will be like the last two. But Beilein isn't going anywhere because:
1. Everyone in the athletic department loves him.
2. He is a model ambassador for the university - he preaches fundamentals and basic values that are inconsistent the U-M mission.
3. Most of the alumni, students and fans like him and think the last couple of years are an aberration and not the norm.
4. He has a long term contract that will cost too much to break.
5. He got us to the final four at least once.
6. Michigan is a football school so most us don't care about the basketball team as long as it doesn't totally suck.
7. No prima donna basketball coach is going to come here to sit in Harbaugh's shadow.
8. Unless we can find a coach who keeps the top in-state talent from rushing to go to STAEE, no one else is going to much more successful here than JB.
9. JB is a great guy and we'd rather have him here with a few more losses than a slime like Calipari.
February 8th, 2016 at 4:29 PM ^
1. Everyone in the athletic department loves him.
Not true.
2. He is a model ambassador for the university - he preaches fundamentals and basic values that are inconsistent the U-M mission.
Agree.
3. Most of the alumni, students and fans like him and think the last couple of years are an aberration and not the norm.
Disagree. He's had two good years out of the 9 he's been here. 2013 and 2014 are the abberation. If he misses the tourney this year he will have missed it 4 times in 9 years and advanced past the round of 32 just twice. This isn't an aberration.
4. He has a long term contract that will cost too much to break.
Michigan prints money. If they want him gone they will find a way to make it happen. See Dave Brandon/Brady Hoke.
5. He got us to the final four at least once.
Great. How long is he going to live off one season? Izzo's been there 7 times.
6. Michigan is a football school so most us don't care about the basketball team as long as it doesn't totally suck.
Wrong.
7. No prima donna basketball coach is going to come here to sit in Harbaugh's shadow.
You're nuts if you think people don't want this job. The proximity to high school talent, the resources in terms of facilities and money, and the fact that if they have a bad game/season people will still give them some leeway is all appealing. Michigan was a powerhouse in the 70's, 80's and 90's. The only people who don't understand that are the 20 year olds who post on this site.
8. Unless we can find a coach who keeps the top in-state talent from rushing to go to STAEE, no one else is going to much more successful here than JB.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. JB is not the only person who can do this job. Get fucking real.
9. JB is a great guy and we'd rather have him here with a few more losses than a slime like Calipari.
I'd rather have Calipari. Guy wins.
February 8th, 2016 at 5:52 PM ^
I'm really interested in this notion that somehow the past didn't happen. Belein inherited a team that just lost every starter and relied on Peedi and freshman Manny Harris to implement an entirely different system. They then made the tournament for the first time in a decade the next year, which I, for one, considered a good year, especially given how outmanned they were against Oklahoma, which had the NBA number one draft pick on it.
The next year? Bad. expectations increased and the level of play did not rise with them.
The following year, with less talent, they managed to get back in the tournament and win a game, and take Duke to the wire, in a year where they had the number one draft pick. Count as successful.
11-12- They win the conference for the first time in decades.
12-13, 13-14- Already alluded to.
If you want Calipari instead, why not aim higher? Why not Roy? Bill Self? Coach K? Obviously if the environment is as primed for success as you think, they'll be chomping at the bit to leave their current jobs, all of which are a ways away from elite high school talent.
February 8th, 2016 at 6:29 PM ^
I'm really interested in this notion that somehow the past didn't happen. Belein inherited a team that just lost every starter and relied on Peedi and freshman Manny Harris to implement an entirely different system. They then made the tournament for the first time in a decade the next year, which I, for one, considered a good year, especially given how outmanned they were against Oklahoma, which had the NBA number one draft pick on it.
He also inherited Epke Udoh who promptly transfered because Beilein is allergic to athletic big men who play defense, rebound, and block shots. They tanked his first year. They did make the ncaa his 2nd year but then again tanked his thrid year and Beilein fired all of his assistants.
The next year? Bad. expectations increased and the level of play did not rise with them.
Duh.
The following year, with less talent, they managed to get back in the tournament and win a game, and take Duke to the wire, in a year where they had the number one draft pick. Count as successful.
Yay for another moral victory! Anyone noticing a pattern here. Beilein has struggled to bring in talent. He recruits a certain type of player and clearly struck gold with this 2013 recruiting class. That's not the norm, unfortunately the norm is more along the lines of MAAR, Dawkins, Doyle, etc.
11-12- They win the conference for the first time in decades.
Then got bounced by a MAC team in the NCAA.
12-13, 13-14- Already alluded to.
If you want Calipari instead, why not aim higher? Why not Roy? Bill Self? Coach K? Obviously if the environment is as primed for success as you think, they'll be chomping at the bit to leave their current jobs, all of which are a ways away from elite high school talent.
You said you would rather have Beilein than Calipari. I said I wouldn't. You then moved the goal posts of your arguement to make some outlandish claim that I'm suggesting they would leave, which uh, I never came close to. But you're clueless if you don't think big time coaches would want this job. Money, facilities, proximity to talent, and a good tradition make it all extremely appealing.
February 8th, 2016 at 7:09 PM ^
If we define it as leaving another P5 job where they've had sustained success for it. There's not nearly as much talent in Detroit as there used to be. And the tradition is profoundly overstated. As far as Udoh, he actually was on the team that first year, then transferred before the NCAA run.
I don't measure the success of a year by whether or not they advance to a certain point in the tournament. I consider the years they overachieved as, by definition, successful. Otherwise only 16 teams, or is it 8, have success in a given year.
You're saying a "big money coach" would leave. So who would leave? From what gig? Tony Bennett would essentially be Beilein 2.0.
If you want to make the case that Beilein's system sets an artificially low ceiling in most years, fine. I'm content with what he's producing becasue it's ultimatley what I expect from the program.
I was around for the era where Michigan was a premier team. If you think that the 2013 class was a fluke, why isn't the 1991 class a fluke? That era has been, if you examine the history of the program, the outlier, not the norm.
February 8th, 2016 at 7:19 PM ^
Tony Bennett would not be Beilein 2.0. Are you serious?
His teams actually play defense. Not just generic defense, like top ranked defense!
February 8th, 2016 at 7:24 PM ^
One that is far more painful to watch, especially when it's going badly, than even the worst Beilein teams. And it hasn't exactly been shown that UVa doesn't have a ceiling. If we're judging "good season" by ability to make the Sweet 16, then, Bennett's done that twice, once at both of his stops.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:17 PM ^
This thread seems like wasted space on the Internet.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:30 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 1:55 PM ^
One man's "wasted space" is another man's valuable content. Last time I looked, pixels are free.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:17 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 7:55 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 8:17 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 1:19 PM ^
I'm not in the fire Belein camp, I'm in the "He never should have been here in the first place" camp.
A nice Final Four run and all, and it's sad it took the worst-refereed game in history to deprive him of a title, but I still think he's a fair to middlin' guy who, as people say, "Is what he is"
As for the "We're not Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky" bullshit--at one time, neither were they.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:25 PM ^
That's one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on this board.
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February 8th, 2016 at 1:19 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 1:22 PM ^
You really think that the Jordan brand will have a say in the direction of our basketball program? That's not how this thing works.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:25 PM ^
They will have something akin to influence, yes. Michigan was selected for this opportunity (1st to wear the Jordan brand) as much as they agreed to it.
I'm not saying MJ gets to decide who can coach here and who can't (thank god, as he's an awful GM).
February 8th, 2016 at 5:42 PM ^
We are the first football team to wear Jordan brand, but there are several schools that have contracts with Jordan for their bball teams.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:27 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 1:27 PM ^
You know, it's really amusing to me. Everyone who wants Beilein gone, is not mentioning any names for replacements.
Go ahead. Just one. Give me one good coach that would come here. One that has a Final Four and isn't some project or mid major coach du jour.
Someone suggested Brad Stevens from the Celtics the other day. I'm sure that would happen.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:29 PM ^
Is one.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^
And what 5 star, McDonald's All-Americans did he sign?
February 8th, 2016 at 1:34 PM ^
Was a final four coach who isn't a project. Now it's a coach that can bring in 5 star All Americans?
February 8th, 2016 at 1:36 PM ^
Never mind that chasing stars is a fool's errand. It's about player development.
February 8th, 2016 at 2:06 PM ^
We already have a final four coach who isn't a project.
What are the criteria?
February 8th, 2016 at 1:34 PM ^
Go ahead. Just one. Give me one good coach that would come here. One that has a Final Four and isn't some project or mid major coach du jour.You asked for one. He gave you one. Why now are you changing the subject? I'm pretty confident Marshall would be able to attract a 5* to michigan, yes. FWIW I don't want Beilein fired, but the Beilein apologists have always been a pain to talk to.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:39 PM ^
Because Greg Marshall coaches the guys who he has into becoming great players..........like John Beilein..............
February 8th, 2016 at 1:51 PM ^
Does Beilein really do that though? Everyone loves to talk about Trey Burke, but there are quite a few guys who have underperformed under Beilein as well, including Chatman, Vogrich, Smotrycz, Donnal, Irvin, and arguably Walton. Overall, its seems like the results are mixed.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:51 PM ^
arguably GRIII
February 8th, 2016 at 1:59 PM ^
Donnal is starting to put it together.
Irvin is really putting it together.
Walton is very good at a couple of things.
Plus when you add THJ, Nik and a guy like Duncan Robinson it's hard to ignore.
February 8th, 2016 at 2:14 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 2:21 PM ^
Even when you let Trey cancel out with Vogrich, and Nik cancel with Smot. There are more players that have come through. Do people really overlook J-Mo's first 3 years?
February 8th, 2016 at 2:27 PM ^
There is a saying about not arguing with an idiot... They'll drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
February 8th, 2016 at 2:53 PM ^
And you bitch and moan and waste your time online talking about what this "idiot" posts, so what does that make you?
Not surprised you're now venturing into namecalling. Have a nice afternoon.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:25 PM ^
Thanks for making my point for me. I appreciate that.
Unfortunately, you happen to populate a site that I'm rather attached to.
February 8th, 2016 at 6:15 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 1:38 PM ^
This is why its useless to try to argue with a know-it-all 20-something.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:39 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 1:44 PM ^
Scary wake-up call: a quick scan of the McD's All-Americans rosters seem to indicate the last one to show up in A2 was Daniel Horton.
Daniel freaking Horton.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:04 PM ^
Signing five stars At Wichita STATE?!?!?!?!
Talk about moving the goalposts, learn the limits of what you are arguing here young one.
For the record if Marshall was brought in, it would be a complete sylistic difference and there would be transition costs, Marshall's record of success(Similar to Beilein's) appears system driven. Being system driven would likely bring up it's own frustrations in the Big Ten, but I highly doubt getting physically over-run would be as much of a problem with him.
Every hire has risks, but ignoring stagnation in favor of avoiding those risks is a problem as well.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:33 PM ^
Gregg Marshall would be an A++++ hire for Michigan if it were to happen. Proven head coach at a school that is overshadowed by not 1 but 2!!!! power programs in KSU and Kansas.
Archie Miller would be a great hire too! 37 years old! Plenty young to form a great career at a power school. And he's already familiar with the rust belt.
Either of them would be upgrades to Beilein in my opinion
February 8th, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^
Why is that a prerequisite for discussing how and why this basketball program is struggling?
February 8th, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 1:39 PM ^
Tony Bennett (but for the record I don't think Beilein should be replaced...maybe an assistant shake-up though). Wisconsin job now appears to be closed and Bennett clearly has the chops.
Kevin Ollie. Maybe not as sparkly clean as Beilein, but has the Manuel connection and can recruit with the best of them. Oh, and he's got a national title.
Archie Miller. Phenomenal recruiter just like his brother and has turned scraps into contenders at Dayton.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:46 PM ^
Kevin Ollie?
No A-list coach is going to come live in Harbaugh's shadow at a Football school. Not gonna happen.
February 8th, 2016 at 2:29 PM ^
Okay WD, err DISCUSS MAN, errr.. Benn. Whatever you are. You are something else.
February 8th, 2016 at 2:42 PM ^
If a school has an FBS level football program, that school is by definition a football school. The only exceptions are UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Louisville, UConn (not neccessarily a blue blood but moreso because their football program is new to FBS) and possibly UCLA ( I realize they are a blue blood but you could argue that they too are a football school). Basically, every college basketball coach oustide of those 7-8 schools will be in the shadow of the football coach.