ESPN’s David Hale: Sign stealing just part of the game
I know many of you are vowing never to read ESPN again, but it appears perhaps the narrative is shifting:
Inside the sideline vs. sideline battle to hide, decode and steal signals (lack of Oxford comma in the original)
A couple of salient points:
The day after the game, cleaning crews made their way through the visiting locker room, and lo and behold, there was [Brent] Pry's original game script, taped back together.
Some of you may remember Brent Pry from his days at PSU; this anecdote was from his time at Louisiana-Lafayette.
Michigan's alleged schemes might have broken specific NCAA rules against in-person scouting and using technology to tape opponents, but the quest to get a leg up by having a little inside information is ubiquitous and, according to many coaches, just a normal and acceptable part of the game.
Still getting the technology rule wrong, but overall a reasonable take.
“Everybody's stealing signals on game day," said NC State coach Dave Doeren. “[…] There's a lot of ways you can do all that, but the way I look at it is, it's on us as coaches, just like baseball, to change up signals all the time. It's just part of the deal."
You think? Gee, it’s amazing what coaches will say when they know they’re being quoted by name.
"Most people in baseball laugh at what's going on in football now," said one longtime MLB manager. "Make better signs! If somebody's stealing your signs, you've got s---ty signs."
If even the managers of Major League “Follow the Unwritten Rules” baseball are laughing…
And, finally, one last tidbit, albeit anonymous:
(Notable given Michigan's place in the headlines: One assistant who spoke to ESPN said his team switched to wristbands against Ohio State because they were aware the Buckeyes were particularly adept at getting signals.)
I look forward to the protestations from Eleven Warriors already… “But! But! That was fair because it was from TV, but doing the same thing without a TV is the worst scandal in the history of mankind!”
November 9th, 2023 at 10:05 AM ^
And that argument will continue to be clearly bogus because there is no such general rule. Had there been, then the TV networks would have been in violation all this time. Every spectator that used their smartphone camera and captured even a part of either team's benches during signaling would be in violation.
The rule prohibits using game equipment recording opponents inside the game enclosure. Any journalist who makes the slightest attempt to actually read and comprehend the rules would know that the general prohibition being peddled here is a lie.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:36 AM ^
Just goes to show how much of a clown Stephen A Smith is. He repeatedly screams at the TV saying how much of an advantage Michigan has by knowing the other teams signs when literally everyone does it. He wants Michigan banned from the playoffs so Alabama can get in. Maybe don't get your shit pushed in by Texas and you wouldn't have to worry about that
November 9th, 2023 at 9:38 AM ^
Its hilarious how the big media mouthpieces love to point out Michigan's change in record but completely forget that fact that Michigan did the following after 2020:
Swapped Don Brown for a Top 5 NFL DC in Mike McDonald
Swapped playing 280lb DT's and Ben Mason for Mazi Smith, Kris Jenkins, Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant.
Swapped QB's who's ceilings were playing in the Canadian Football League for a 1st Round NFL QB.
Consider me shocked a team that consistently won 9-10 games suddenly elevated into an elite tier.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:43 AM ^
It was so frustrating when Molly on first take said "he was losing a bunch a games before this", and no one disagreed with her. Michigan has had one bad season under Harbaugh. 10-3 and 9-4 are good seasons for programs like Notre Dame, LSU, etc. but not Michigan.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:43 AM ^
That's because they're not talking X's and O's. Do you know how many of these people said that we shouldn't fire Harbaugh in 2020? Plenty. They talked about what the program was like before him and that he only had an OSU problem. He solved the OSU problem and the rest of the conference (except PSU) has been awful.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
And it's not like we were utter schlubs before 2020 either. The whole "they sucked in 2020, how can they be good now?" argument--delivered with scorn, smarm and fake incredulity--is infuriating.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:38 AM ^
Again, anybody who isn't trying to get attention or is a biased hack knows this isn't a big deal, but that hasn't stopped ESPN from driving this story into the ground. The one positive I see is that guys like Thamel aren't coming out all that well as more details emerge so hopefully he'll lose whatever little credibility he had.
As for Stephen A. Smith and Finebaum, nobody really seems to like them outside of when they're ragging on your rival, so whatever gets them through the day is fine but its not like they have any real credibility at stake here.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:39 AM ^
You aren't gonna win with rival fanbases no matter how much evidence comes out to support our claims and absolve us from blame. Especially MSU or OSU for that matter. They will just say we got away with murder and we're the golden children of the Big Ten somehow.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:40 AM ^
I sure miss the days when college football was a sport.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:55 AM ^
College football has always been thus. We got kicked out of the Big Ten more than a century ago and it's the 50th anniversary of our fellow conference members colluding against us so a bunch of Ohio douchebags could go to the Rose Bowl.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
I had a dream Harbaugh didn’t get suspended. I woke up and I got mad. This is how much it’s fucking my life. And I can’t step away. Fuck you Tony and BIG
November 9th, 2023 at 9:54 AM ^
If the Big Ten really wants to hurt Michigan this weekend, they should suspend James Franklin.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:57 AM ^
I had a dream about the osu game last night. Why? So dumb. I think it was 7-7at half, and somehow both teams only had 50 yards. Maybe pick sixes. Then like less than a minute into second half um was up by ten. Dreams are weird. No outcome in the dream, but being up ten in third quarter is good.
November 9th, 2023 at 9:50 AM ^
as much as Ohio state/ NCAA as moved the goal post on this whole thing, I'm surprised Ohio state hasn't thrown a fit about the ncaa not moving another goalpost 10' to the left
November 9th, 2023 at 10:01 AM ^
The scandal of ethics is dying a rapid death. The only people still pushing it hard are Big Ten fans, Pat McAfee, and Paul Finebaum. Good company to keep Buckeye fans...
November 9th, 2023 at 10:01 AM ^
Open the binder. Then bring it !
November 9th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
Upvoted you for the “lack of Oxford comma in the original” parenthetical.
November 9th, 2023 at 10:58 AM ^
Not a fan of the Oxford comma. But not a purist on usage, so no vote either way.
November 9th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
Include me in team pro- Oxford comma. Perhaps we can argue this at length after the season.
November 9th, 2023 at 10:18 AM ^
To quote Brian,
" SO WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?!?!?!"
November 9th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
I am enjoying the delusion of Buckeyes on reddit and twitter desperately trying to keep the dream alive. They're the guy on the left of this meme right now as this scandal collapses.
Noooo they're cheating! you have to give them the death penalterino!
November 9th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
The narrative on TV will never shift. It's simple math. There's more fans combined of our rivals and teams that want Michigan's potential playoff spot than there are Michigan fans. As a result, attacking Michigan is more profitable than defending Michigan. Tons of those people are tuning into these shows to hear about the Michigan scandal and in a way that confirms what they would like to believe - that Michigan is only good because of sign stealing and needs to be banned from the post-season.
The story will only fade away once Michigan is eliminated. If Michigan loses 2 out of the next 3, this story will go away nationally as the focus shifts to the playoffs. ESPN would no longer have an incentive to push it nonstop (and fans of Alabama etc. would no longer have a reason to care).
It would however be permanently attached to our record as in the narrative "Michigan stopped winning the moment teams started changing their signs which proves how bad the sign stealing was" will take hold. As such Michigan will be damned one way or another, either as a cheat who gets to prosper or as a program that is failing unless it is cheating.
People who dislike Michigan will use this to hammer Michigan for decades. It's like the "Fab Five" scandal except bigger because (1) it's football and (2) most of those people can't say too much about paying players given their schools have done the same or worse.
November 9th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
I would ask if the ESPN people have even an ounce of sympathy or empathy for Michigan players, but given their continued bs crapping on the team, their desire for clicks and relevance clearly overrides any sense of humanity.
November 9th, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
No way of knowing, but doubt the players give a crap. And they're almost certainly not getting their news from cable.
November 9th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
Who gives a fuck about an Oxford Comma?
- Vampire Weekend
November 9th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^
Upvoted for good song.
November 9th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
I'm joining the "it's not sign stealing" crowd. Stealing implies that we took something that didn't belong to us. Oxford defines "steal" as,
take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.
The first obvious interpretation is that our opponents' signs are no longer their property when they are so freely given away for all to see. If there is no attempt to maintain the signs as protected intellectual property, or proprietary information, such as by using wristbands, the opponent loses claim to property rights.
Sign decoding is the proper interpretation of what we did. That is legal. End of story.
November 9th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
(lack of Oxford comma in the original)
This is why it's fun to be a Michigan fan lol
November 9th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^
Hypocritical back stabbing by OSU, Purdue, and Rutgers is just part of the game.