Engineering Degree Question
Mates,
Oldest son is on the cusp of having to make a decision about what college to attend - yes, we are way late. He is set on his desire to study Mechanical Engineering, with a view toward possibly going into Aerospace Engineering later on. We all realize there are many variables that factor into just how far he goes with any planned field of study and that many students change majors at some point. That said, one of the decision criterion (besides playing football for whatever school is chosen) is the value of the degree itself, meaning, what difference is there for a kid who graduates with an actual B.S.M.E. vs. a B.S. in Engineering, with a concentration in Mechanical Engineering.
So of course tonight's question is this: What are the differences in the specific degrees between the BSME and a BS in Engineering? What benefits/drawbacks to each in terms of flexibility, employability, grad school chances, etc? Assume for purposes of the question that any of the schools in the process are all solid places so there's no real trade-off in that regard to quality of education in general.
Thank you for your time and input.
XM
From an exit perspective there's no real difference. The difference is a designated degree vs an undesignated one. For BSME's there are specific courses that must be offered. BSE's are much more interdisciplinary, which might be useful if your son wants to dabble in aerospace engineering.
It really doesn't matter from a hiring perspective. If it's a BSE you just list your major as Mechanical Engineering as opposed to BSME. What's far more important is his grades, extra-curriculars, and internships/work experience.
Feel free to follow up with any questions.
Source: UM, BSE in Mechanical Engineering '18
thank you and to bballongrass, below. good stuff.
Aerospace is a pretty specific degree with additional focus on fluid Dynamics (lots an lots of diff eq's) and structure. If you want to work for NASA or Boeing it will help and it will be fine for any ME job as well.
5 years into your career having an aero vs mechanical BSE will not matter at all. 90% of the curriculum overlaps. What becomes way more important is your experience.
My advice is to look at job postings that he would want to pursue post graduation. What degrees do they prefer? Just engineering or specifically mechanical or aerospace. Also, strongly consider going to grad school. You can ask grad department staff what degree types they look for. They tend to be more open as physics majors can go on to a graduate degree in engineering. Good luck.
Sorry I can't help.
My degree was in Modern European Studies.
i thought it was in a combined 'oligarchs and the military' program.
I minored in kleptocracy.
Obviously you're the master but I hear there's real money to be made in self-branded hotels. Put your name on the side and overcharge toadies looking to gain favor.
NO POLITICS!
Was there last month with my 10 yo son for Xplore Engineering Camp (fantastic btw). North Campus has undergone an amazing transformation since I graduated with ChemE in 1997. Almost wanted to be there studying again.....minus the problem sets.
Whatever your son picks, he'll come out with a fantastic degree and many options. For example, I worked in DRAM manufacturing for 1 year and then went to med school.
Good luck to him and you!
what is 'DRAM' manufacturing?
(and cool deal on med school)
I'm guessing it's Dynamic Random Access Memory (link)?
In my opinion, the value of a degree drops significantly once you graduate and get a job...all about experience and network after that. I'd focus on going the route that will develop the best skill set for the desired career.
BSE Civil Engineering - structural
I think there's truth in your post. But ...
- A handful of companies (not including ones beneath the top tiers of SE Michigan's auto industry) have a "thing" for schools like Michigan and above (Ivies, Stanford, etc.). I interviewed with a couple of management consultancies just shy of age thirty who said something to the effect that UM "made the cut."
- One of those companies wanted to see my SAT scores, which were then about twelve years old.
This is a long-winded way of saying "choose Michigan (or better)" if you find yourself in an all-other-things-equal scenario.
Also, I agree with others here that an engineering degree is flexible and generally valuable. I'm glad I have mine even though I've never really worked in the field.
I can't argue with that...just speaking from my own experience.
Michigan has only come up when discussing sports.
Hmm, I had no idea that you could "concentrate" in a particular engineering discipline while just graduating with a general Michigan engineering degree. I always thought you needed to pick a specific engineering discipline and fulfill those requirements to graduate. Ironically when I did my MBA I did just that, received a general MBA degree without selecting a specific discipline, quite a few of us actually did that. It allowed those of us undecided on a career path to instead take the classes and professors that interested us or that we were told were worth taking. That's probably a good thing as I don't think UNC business school had a 'medical device sales' concentration.
- Michigan Mechanical Engineering 1998
this one isn't going to go to michigan, at least not right now. he wants to play football too, and he's not a D-1 ball player. he has talked about transferring to U of M later.
Is he staying in-state, XM?
My uncle and his son and daughter (my cousins) all have engineering degrees from Michigan Tech, as does another cousin, and they've all done well in their chosen fields.
That's as close to an endorsement as I can give for a particular engineering program. I have no idea, however, if MTU offers the specific program/degree your son wishes to pursue.
we like tech and he got in, but i think he's headed to a smaller private school probably out of state. he has test scores/grades that help a lot with the costs.
ahhh, ok, that makes sense then.
I've always believed that an ME degree is a very good foundation degree for whatever he'd like to do. It's a very common degree across the country and across industries so it has some brand equity from that standpoint. I would suggest he pursue the ME degree.
I have a bachelor's in aerospace from UM and a master's degree in mechanical.
Though I do work in aerospace, I would recommend the mechanical route for flexibility. Unless he wants to be something like an aerodynamicist, I think mechanical will just give him more options. Most engineers at a given aerospace company are systems/structural/design where a mechanical degree is just as good.
Does Michigan even offer a BSME?
Was going to say the same thing.
To address specifically the OP, I don't think there is a significant difference in BSE with a major in ME vs a BSME. To an employer, they'll effectively look the same.
But I do think there is more value added in doing ME for undergrad due to the breadth of the major. You are more flexible with ME, and can go in a lot of directions with it, from bio-mechanical, aerospace, even in many ways civil engineering. This is especially true if he just has a vague idea of what he wants to go into. Then, if you are interesting more in the Aero side, your senior type classes can focus on those things (CFD, combustion, whatever else).
Then, if you are planning grad school, then you become more focused on whatever area you prefer (whether it be aero, or more focused within mechanical, like thermal, fluids, bio, etc.).
(NOTE: take this as a recommendation. He's going to be fine if he just goes straight into Aero, but I've found it's typically easier to go from ME to a job focused in Aero then the other way around)
Xtra, I have the impression that different programs call their degrees one or the other, but the content is very similar. For example, my degree from UM is a BSE handed out by the Civil/Environmental Engineering Dept. It's not called a BSCE, but probably would be at some other Universities.
I would suggest to get into the best program possible, with either specific title, and then kick ass once inside. Good grades, good test scores and good references/internships will be the gateway to any of grad school, a good job out of undergrad or an easy transition to Aero if that's what he wants.
Grades matter. School matters. Once he has experience in a field neither matters.
I got a Computer Science degree from LSA, back before it was folded into CoE, and worked as an engineer for 40 years, so I would have to agree on how little the school/degree matters once you are a couple of years removed. Where they do matter is on the initial position you get out of college. Studies have shown that the compensation you receive for your first professional employment has a significant statistical impact on your lifetime earnings, i.e. start high, finish high. I would also encourage him to look into an Aero degree, as it is useful for more than designing aircraft. It is a discipline which requires skills in applying abstraction to practical physics and develops generalized problem solving skills. Those are lifetime skills, and UM has an elite Areo program. Good Luck to you kid, XM
CS didn't really get folded in... there are just two different CS degrees.
You can get a CS degree from LSA. You can get a CSE degree from EECS.
I hear Bama has a good program.
Is that you, Dashawn?
I majored in ME and was told I had a BSEME by members of Michigan faculty. For whatever that's worth.
But I've only ever had difficulty finding a job for 6 months during the recession in 2010. The rest of my career I've had good paying jobs and I've regularly fielded offers that I turned down because I liked my current job. I make more than the average ME bachelor's. I think a Michigan bachelor's in ME is one of the most valuable undergrad degrees you can get.
Use to be just a few more courses. I majored both in BSEME and AOS. but that was back in the early to mid 80s.
Can't speak,about other schools, but the CoE at UM will encourage/require students to take survey courses durimg the first year that explore several of the disciplines before having them matriculate into a specific department (normally at the onset of the 2nd year). I would strongly advise your son to take advantage of exploring those options and even taking other engineering courses as electives after choosing a major. Ultimately this can lead into dual majors and/or concentrations in other disciplines that can strengthen the degree as well as help identify a career path.
BSE Che w conc in Mech Eng
BSE Mat Sci Eng
Encourage him to take a class or three on additive manufacturing (3D printing). Remember plastics in the early 70s? This is 3D printing and it's going to revolutionize manufacturing in the next decade or so.
Get your app in within the first 20 days of acceptance by the U (used to be August 1st or 15th). The pool fills with applications quickly.
I worked with a U of M Aerospace Engineer who morphed into a software engineer. My daughter wanted to get into Medical Device Engineering but her school did not offer that so she has a Interdisciplinary Engineering degree. Her internship was with a software engineering company and she stayed with them after graduating.
the cool thing about her university was that after sophomore year every other semester was a full time paid internship. It was year round program so she ended up with nearly a year of experience when she graduated.
I was a BSEE and this was 99-03, but I don't really see based on my experience how a general BSE would be possible without removing important ME courses or taking 5+ years.
I think I took one non-EE class from the engineering college and like less than 25% of my credits in LSA and other non-engineering electives and I still had to take classes in spring/summer to finish in 4 years.
to xtramelanin's son.. CONGRATULATIONS.... for it is quite a low acceptance rate, to get in to the Engineering School straight up from high school. Please pass that along.
My two cents... have him stay another year and go double major....
My background is I did BSME in 1993 and took 4.5 years plus one summer. Older brother went undergrad and grad, all the way through a Masters in Aero, and also taught in the program.
During the time when I had to declare my discipline (probably 1.5 years in), I was reviewing my courses with Sue Gow the advisor, and learned that I could double major and get an Aerospace degree also, if I were to esoterically plan my final courses. Supposedly it was structuring the entire class plan in such a way were certain upper Aerospace courses would qualify for the upper level Mechanical requirements, and vice versa, and it'd only take another 28 or so credits. And it had to be decided very early in the program because of the approval and proper scheduling mapping needed. If I were your son, I'd consider going 5 years and a few summers, and getting both degrees.
Good luck.
U of M BSME 2009 - If he hasn't even started college who cares. If he's in the College of Engineering (at Michigan or wherever he goes) he's set. Freshman year will be background math and science courses. At U of M it was Eng 100 and Eng 101 for everyone, no matter the desired major. You didn't even have to declare until 2nd semester sophomore year as I recall. At M there were engineering advisors that would talk through each semester with me, and that would be the person to ask about trying to be more specialized or general. My $0.02 is that he should get excited for school and get there. He can figure out the exact major later.
My personal opinion is that a mechanical engineering degree was an excellent choice for me. It's a very flexible degree. I work in the auto industry, and i use very little of my mechanical engineering coursework (I don't do free body diagrams more than 1-2x/year). What I use constantly is the engineering problem solving skills that I learned at school. Having the mechanical background was helpful, but not a strict requirement.
Congrats to your son.
My background: BSE in Aero from Michigan, PhD in Aero from Texas A&M. I've been in industry for 6+ years working for one of three big jet engine companies. My two cents:
-I wasn't aware that there's a difference between BSE in ME and BSME. I always thought it was just the preference of the University handing out the degree.
-My PhD was in computational fluid dynamics and my first job out of grad school was pretty heavy in aerodynamics. Now I do something much more mechanically focused. The majority of my coworkers in both groups have ME degrees. I would have no idea who went ME and who went Aero if we didn't talk about occasionally at happy hours or around the water cooler. It really makes no difference once you're in industry, and people float back and forth between roles. If you can figure out how to do the work, nobody cares about your major.
-If he wants to land in academia some day, then he should pick his graduate major to match where he wants to be. That's a far off decision though, and undergrad major (ME vs. Aero) isn't going to matter for grad school admission into either major.
-Depending on the school, ME may have significantly more students enrolled than Aero. More students usually means more course offerings, sometimes even summer courses, which may be a significant advantage for a football player. There's no reason to take controls theory (or whatever, controls was my personal nightmare) during the fall if you can get the course in the spring when he's less busy with sports.
Just wanted to chip in...Lawrence Tech has a very well thought of ME program (with a FB program!). Kettering (no FB program) in Flint is also very highly ranked...and they're closer to home to boot. I think UM-Flint may be have ME program but don't know much about it other than having taken some engineering classes there myself in the 80s.
I have a BSME and work in Aerospace. Work in software now, so I guess I wish I had a little more SW in college. Also, aerospace sounds prestigious, and it is, but in aerospace you are working in a highly regulated environment. We get a lot of young engineers who are all Gung ho to design something cool, well first off, the new and exciting stuff is usually being worked on by the most experienced engineers who are designing new technologies to push the industry forward. The young guys do the grunt work, and even if they do get to design some solutions, this is aerospace, designs mean nothing without documentation. Our job is 20% engineering and 80% process (paper work).
We get young software engineers in who want to get something working before they record how they developed it, that doesn't work for the FAA. I thrive in a regulated environment, but there's a part of me that wishes I'd decided to work on developing fun apps for smart phones where you can just mash a bunch of code together, do a little testing, and release it to the public.
i just want to say thank you for all the very helpful and thoughtful responses. well, other than putin subtly gloating about taking over eastern europe they were all helpful....
My only addition to the above comments is to make sure it is a BS degree. There was a time during my undergraduate struggles that the University offered me an LSA degree in Engineering. So, please, verify at the schools you are looking into that is a Bachelor of Science diploma.
A really attractive option at Michigan is the SUGS 5 year MS/BSE program. An excellent option for a student who doesn't want a Ph.D. , and only 1 additional year.
https://rackham.umich.edu/navigating-your-degree/sugs-information/
January 20th, 2020 at 12:23 PM ^
There are a lot of factors. There are many good colleges, but I would advise you to look at their program, this is much more important. The main thing is that the program should not have many unnecessary classes that are not related to your faculty, as I had in my time. I had so many tasks to write argumentative essays examples for my history class, and this always took a lot of my time. Therefore, pay attention to studying program.