Elephant in the room: Did Warinner know about Smith?
Per McMurphy’s column, Smith’s wife communicated about the abuse with other coaches’ wives, and through them word got to Meyer.
But did this mean that Warinner was also aware of the abuse? He was co-offensive coordinator in 2015 and had to be close with Smith. If word was getting around the staff, he HAD to know what was going on.
This is something that has to be addressed. Should this be a stain that the university and football program should just accept, or should this new information coming out cause the team to separate from Warinner?
It could be way more complicated than doing the right thing. As an example, what if he did say something to Meyer or others and it became apparent they were not going to do anything about it. Should he go to the media? Note the victim had not even gone to the media at that point – she was still married to him. Is it right for him to take it to the media without her consent? Perhaps he does go to the media, everyone is fired and in the future organizations like OSU do a better job of preventing domestic violence. That would be a good outcome but what about Warinner?
There is a good chance that while he gets a lot of praise for standing up against injustice the is shut out of coaching as future employers worry about if they can trust him. He is left unable to provide for his family. How does he balance his obligation to do the right thing vs. his obligation to support his family? I don’t think this is a black or white decision for someone in Warinners position. I am not saying he clearly should not have done anything just noting that the ethical decision here is complicated.
August 1st, 2018 at 12:31 PM ^
I used to work in a place where a colleague had sexually harassed several female colleagues. He was reprimanded by the management (not me), but wasn't fired. Plenty of people on the staff, including me, thought he should have been. While lots of people on staff knew about this situation, it wasn't exactly something we broadcast to the outside world. The harasser guy is still employed at the organization.
I now work at a different place. Am I somehow tainted by the fact that I used to work at a different job where sexual harassment occurred and probably wasn't dealt with adequately? Should I be telling my new employer or funders or the media about the situation at my old job? If the situation at the old job is somehow uncovered, do I have 'splainin' to do?
I think Warinner is in a pretty similar spot. He's not responsible for what Smith did. Whether he agreed or disagreed with how Meyer handled the situation, that was Meyer's call and not Warinner's. He's not tainted by any past knowledge, and didn't have any duty--legal or moral--to take any other action as far as I can tell.
August 1st, 2018 at 12:54 PM ^
I agree EGD. I don’t think Warinner is obligated to make this a focal point of his interview process with Minnesota or Michigan.
It is very unfortunate that this guy was allowed to stay on staff at OSU while this was happening. Especially after Urbz layed down the law about respecting women. But...we’ve come to expect this with Meyer. He’s not about character. He’s about “W’s”. And personally, I think a lot of kids know this about him and choose to go there and play ball...not school...instead of coming to place like Michigan. A place where academics, character and football ALL matter.
Long story short...Urban will come out of this looking fine. No one in the state of Ohio will care. As long as he keeps winning.
This is a perfect anecdote. Once Warriner reports this to Meyer - or knows it has come to his attention and the police his responsibilities are over (unless there is some obscure title 9 rule).
If he felt that strongly about the (lack of) disciplinary action he could have quit, but that is about it.
And MAYBE he did do something.... the rumors/allegations from Bucknuts that the mystery message board poster after this latest incident was in fact Warriner are starting to seem more plausible. If the wives remained close and he was no longer beholden to Meyer a new unreported (in the media) incident pushed him or someone to act. (obviously it was someone who knew the history)
If this was true, I doubt Ed would ever offer up the info as I feel that the cochi
Accidentally hit “post” - just was going to finish up that I think the coaching community still can have some strong “clan-like” influences and someone who airs stuff in public would be shunned.
I get your points BUT, college coaches are also molding teenagers into men and the topic of domestic abuse Is surely one being discussed at length. If the coach has a past (in whichever form), it would be wise to discuss with his new employer so when it’s brought up they are ahead of it. “Don’t turn a 1 day story into a 2 day story”
August 1st, 2018 at 12:31 PM ^
Let me ask you all a question:
If I'm an SVP at my F500 company and i hear a rumor that my co-worker who does not report to me (and say he's a VP) has abused his wife, what's my legal/ moral obligation?
August 1st, 2018 at 12:35 PM ^
He probably heard rumblings and I assume knew that Meyer heard as well. I'm on the side of "if you hear something like that, you should do what you can to stop it", but at the same time he's not Smith's boss and he must assume that it's Meyer's job.
And as sad as it is in reality, my guess is that domestic violence is common enough in coaching (as with the general population) that people have worked with abusers elsewhere and at some point you just put your head down and do your job while assuming someone higher up the food chain acts on it. Of course, that's why Baylor, PSU, and MSU, to name but a few, were allowed to cover up massive abuses for decades, but that's the reality we live in.
August 1st, 2018 at 12:35 PM ^
Here's the deal with this and in life, in general. Do the right thing and you almost always have nothing to worry about. Hopefully Warinner did because Meyer certainly didn't!
August 1st, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^
"Do the right thing and you almost always have nothing to worry about." If only. In life, incidents of whistleblower retaliation are real. See., e.g., https://www.npr.org/2018/04/27/606461746/beyond-a-failed-nominee-whistleblower-retaliation-another-problem-at-the-va Many do the right thing anyway--and they should--but telling 'em that they have nothing to worry about is very misleading.
This is very naive. Doing the right thing almost always comes with a higher cost than putting your head down. There's a reason why we call the latter "the easy way out".
You do the right thing anyway, and eat that fucking bullet when it comes for you. Someday, in some weird way, it just might matter.
It may be naive and it may come at a higher cost, initially, but it also comes with the peace of mind, nothing having to look behind your back, have it in the back of your mind at all times that the other shoe might just drop today, every day.
August 1st, 2018 at 12:45 PM ^
This would be on Meyer. If Ed knew, perhaps he spoke with Meyer about it, but told him to keep it on the down low. So, again, this is on Meyer for not doing anything.
That said, I highly doubt anything will come of this. OSU is one of the most corrupt football programs in the country. He'll be the coach there for a long time.
August 1st, 2018 at 12:55 PM ^
Wait.
So what you are saying is that Urban Meyer stays as HC at OSU (no way in hell they fire him), but his former assistant, who did not have the authority to dismiss Smith when at OSU, should be fired from his current job as OL coach at Michigan?
So anyone who knew back in 2015 (yet did not have the power to fire Smith) should be fired from whatever their current job may be? Knowledge in 2015 = fired today from whatever your current job may be?
Huh. I'll have to process that one.
Hey, let's go jump on a sword. Sounds fun!
August 1st, 2018 at 12:57 PM ^
Even if Warinner knew, why the heck would he lose his job over this?! There is no crime or NCAA violation for knowing someone who beats their spouse. Get off your high horses people.
The number of Michigan fans that can't spell Warinner's name correctly is mind-boggling.
It's a composite of 2 words: "war" and "inner"
Warrrrrrrrriner is the new Rudddddddock.
He may have been aware, but not fully aware.
Get the story straight right now and be ready to answer the questions. Also be ready to hold him accountable.
Somehow this will be turned on us not on OSU.
He could also win the day by coming out and saying that he did exactly what was appropriate, escalating it to his boss. I would love nothing more than to see Warinner at a podium calling Meyer a liar, because I (Warinner) looked him and the eyes and told him what was going on.
Warrinner may have had some information about it, but like most of you have said, this is solely on urban meyer. Meyer knew that Smith had past involvements at florida, so any information of the 2015 involvements were known about and not new. It isn't on the shoulders of an assistant coach to do something about a guy who the head coach has been associated with for a decade, he can't fire this guy, and he couldn't because he doesn't hold the authority to, nor do the rest of the coaches on his staff. As a leader or head of an organization, anything like this is your responsibility. If Warrinner's wife knew, it isn't her responsibilty either, it would be the wife of the head coach to inform Urban of this. The blame can be scapegoated to assistants, but again it all falls on the shoulders of the head coach and administration, meyer knowingly kept this guy on the staff.
I certainly hope that if it hasn't happened already, JH, Warde, and our administration/Title IX compliance staff immediately address this with coach Warinner.
Furthermore, I hope EW will be completely honest and forthcoming, and those entrusted to act appropriately will do so.
I emphatically state it's very possible EW took proper action based on his knowledge and position. It must, however, be taken seriously and thoroughly ascertained.
Then, in light of all the scandals happening in our conference, I think a public statement describing the school's action/decision-making rationale should be made. There are no issues of protecting privacy IME since students aren't involved and the story is public knowledge.
It's the cover-up and secrecy that always make things worse, and enable bad behavior in the first place.
This sucks. I take no pleasure in yet another scandal in our conference.
Eyes are wide open these days. To avoid getting swept into the pile of disrepute, UM has to act quickly and appropriately, every time.
"I emphatically state it's very possible EW took proper action based on his knowledge and position."
This. Title IX investigations are confidential, so he (or any of them) could have and no one would ever know (or be able to know).
Don’t try to tie Michigan to this OSU debacle...fools errand
To everyone who says he had no authority to fire/what could he do/not as bad as Meyer/etc:
PLEASE STOP!!!!!! He could have done a lot of things. He could have gone to Meyer. If he did go to Meyer and nothing came of it, then you go to the AD. Next you go to the president of OSU. Finally you quit. He has a responsibility to do something.
Easier said than done, though. You're drawing parallels between Urban's responsibility and his in this situation and I don't think that's completely fair.
No doubt easier said than done but we are talking/dealing with human lives. Children’s lives. Everyone has a responsibility to protect the innocent.
Removing the emotion and creating a hypothetical since none of us know the truth...
EW hears second hand (or first hand but does not witness anything) that there was an incident - police were called but no charges filed. He mentions it to Meyer - Meyer says “I am aware and have mentioned to the AD we will handle with Zach.”
Aside from offering any and all help to the victim and being vigilant to see if it happens again, you are asserting that he was obligated to either quit or commit career-suicide for someone who may already have second thoughts about going to others in the first place? (Taking a leap with no expertise but think there is a lot of “victim’s-remorse” in Domestic cases)
Obviously (to me at least) all bets are off if he actually witnessed abuse.
This is different for Meyer as he not only had the authority to do something but also might be the only person on the staff that was aware of all the previous incidents. There is scuttlebutt that Meyer WAS trying to do something- only that something was encouraging him to find another job and thus remove the responsibility from him/OSU.
ya right, because warinner would have more info than the police, prosecutors and/or others who would have directly talked to the victim and then made their assessments. ya, it's warinner's job to see that investigation and its result through.
/s
Of course he did. Everyone remotely connected to OSU did. He wasn't in a position of power--I mean the police knew-- he can only do so much.
The rumor coming from OSU people has been that Warriner is the one that leaked the initial reports of this to the press. Not sure how valid of a rumor that is.
That sounds like 11W people trying to blame Michigan for this. "Can't beat them legit, so get the HC fired."
Problem is, unless Warinner has a good excuse for why he didn't say anything sooner, he comes out looking as bad as Urban.
Warinner spoke with the loudest voice he had.
He quit and found a new job.
It is at least as valid as making accusations based on a newspaper article that reported nothing beyond heresay.
This is like saying everyone at MSU who knew what was going on should be fired... oh wait they wouldn’t have anyone left... carry on.
Here's a can of worms. Go ahead and open it.
No one knows if Ed knew or not. All of this is hearsay.
...and depending on the nature of any investigation, we may never know if / when Warriner said anything or indeed what he might have known. Like a lot of people here, I certainly hope that, if confronted with this knowledge, he would have gone to his boss immediately as that's the procedure in most workplaces. Unfortunately, his boss was Urban Meyer and, as we've now discovered, Meyer had no intention of acting.
Easier said than done. It's like being a whistle blower. Many places say they have whistle blower protection but that typically never helps the whistle blower.
Think of a U of M frat that hazes. Many know some of the stuff they do is dangerous and possibly against the law but how many frat members actually speak out against it?
The biggest issue here is for Mrs. Meyer ... as an employee in the nursing school she had a duty to report under Title IX and likely violated the Nightingale Pledge (the nurses equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath). She likely gets fired for cause under Title IX violations and could also be banned from the nursing profession.
Maybe she did. According to the Facebook page, Urban was aware and discussed it with his wife.
The only person that we know FOR SURE covered this up is Urban.
No, she won't be banned, but will be censored. She will have to remediate and will not lose her license but she will lose her credibility as a nurse and that will finish her career.
If he knew, and questioned it he probably got the "Urban's taking care of it or looking into it" or "Don't worry about it, it's a misunderstanding" statement.
Probably Warriner knew or had heard "whisperings". There is a separation though. The chain of responsibility runs right up and through Urban Meyer. If there is a problem and lets say everyone knew but the proper authorities are all aware then Warriner is off the hook he was never on. This line of responsibility in the OSU football dept. starts and ends with Urban. Should Urban be fired for this? I'm not sure. I could see a years suspension without pay while he goes to rehab classes but I don't know that it warrants a dismissal at this point with the information we have now.
I believe the culture at Michigan is much different than OSU. Michigan is very left leaning and liberal with a lot of open door policies. Silence is discouraged. I'm pretty sure this is being stressed to Warriner.
I don't see Warrner being blamed for anything other than building a massive O Line.
I would only fault him had he not left the program after 2016 to coach MN since it was a peer.
Even if he does know something about his peer that HC Meyer also knows, what's should he do if Meyer directs no action?
University omnibuds complaint? Might have gotten him canned.
Find a new job? He did.
Given the information that's out there, the answer to the question of did he know is almost certainly yes. Given that his superiors appear to have had knowledge of the incident (because if Meyer knew, Gene Smith knew too), he probably doesn't have any legal culpability. Morally could be a different discussion, and that gets tricky. He wasn't in a position of power, and I'm not that inclined to hold any individual assistant accountable for what at that point would have been allegations.
All of that being said, there will be questions that Warinner will have to answer, especially if Meyer gets fired (or more likely, allowed to resign).
This place is bananas.
Eh I've heard plenty of bad stuff about co-workers at work in the form of rumors and gossip. If I don't have solid evidence myself, like say I saw it happen with my own eyes, I have to consider the credibility but also the politics of it. How secure is my own position, am I going to be trusted over that person?
I may have a chat about it with others and see what they say, but I'd need something pretty solid to even bring it up with the bosses. If I go around talking crap about someone held in high regard and can't back it up, I'm the one who looks like a sh*t stirrer.
At the end of the day, the private life of my co-workers isn't any of my business and, unless I'm very closely involved in their life, it'd be tough to gauge things. It's different if it's misconduct at work that I witness myself. In that case, I'd do what's necessary to address it because I'd be on pretty solid ground.
What I'm saying is that there could be very good reasons for why something like that is whispered about among colleagues but not specifically acted upon. It's not your job to investigate your co-workers or file police reports based on rumors.
I have to assume he knew. If he didn't, that's kind of an indictment as well. I don't think it's something that Warinner's position would be in jeopardy, but I do think JH needs to talk to him,and his whole staff, about what to expect if/when something like this happens to a colleague. Can't protect your own and stay silent. Gotta hold each other accountable.
What? This has zero to do with Michigan.
Who’s job was it to deal with Smith?