Do you think the players should have any say on a coaching change?
Obviously the players are not going to be around permanently and although some of them love Rich Rod, there may be some that think the team would be better off in a different direction. Do you think any of the players should be consulted (Mike Martin, David Molk come to mind) or do you think their opinion should matter at all?
November 29th, 2010 at 1:39 PM ^
No, probably not
November 29th, 2010 at 1:49 PM ^
...absolutely not.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:33 PM ^
...to your "No"
November 29th, 2010 at 1:43 PM ^
No. Miami made that mistake when they promoted Larry Coker to replace Butch Davis at the insistence of their current players. It doesn't make sense to base hiring decisions on the views of 18-22 year-old kids who will be gone in three years.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:59 PM ^
You were an esteemed Justice of the Supreme Court, so I don't want to offend you. But Larry Coker DID win a National Championship in his first year with those "players." Granted, he didn't fare well after. But Coker -- bad exaple to make your point.
I dissent.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
He is a perfect example. He won a national title in his first year using Butch Davis' players. They were talented guys who were coached mostly by the outgoing Davis. Once Coker had full control and (even worse) his own players for any appreciable time, it started downhill.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:08 PM ^
I agree with the idea that players should NOT decide on the new coach. NO question. But using Coker is not the right example. The whole idea on current players having a say implies that keep an in-house coach will have immediate returns -- which Miami had. Of course, it didn't turn out great in the end -- but still, they did win a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. Of course these were Davis players, but they liked Coker and it helped them dominate.
But again, let me just say -- I agree with the idea that players should NOT decide on the new coach.
I actually should have written a concurrence to Murphy's opinion. Agree with the merits, but not the reasoning.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
Yeah, and Brian Ellerbe's first year was pretty good, too. That doesn't mean that his or Coker's hirings were good moves.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^
had won the NCAA National Championship and then had 4 bad years, would you have taken that? Of course you would.
Not saying players should decide. But there are MUCH MUCH better examples out there than Coker.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:32 PM ^
He gets your program on probation and dismantled for the next 15?
November 29th, 2010 at 2:57 PM ^
That'd be the first Michigan coach I'd think of for this situation. Total player's coach, won a title with other people's players, then... lost control of the program.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:43 PM ^
Any player who thinks we'd be better off under another coach is probably already playing for another coach
November 29th, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^
All that should definitely be handled by the people to whom money matters (i.e. the president and the AD).
November 29th, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^
November 29th, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^
I think players should INFORM the decision, but not make the decision.
DB would be crazy not to take their opinions and what happens from their perspective in this decision.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^
that we ask Michigan football players to support their coach (regardless if he recruited them) until the Athletic Director says otherwise, yet as a fan base we can't seem to do the same?
FWIW, it seems to me that many or all on this team support Coach Rodriguez.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:53 PM ^
This is a very interesting point you raise. One that I don't think many in the MGoCommunity have considered but should definitely think about. When railing against the current "administration" I don't think people consider the kids currently playing in the system. Although their opinions may not be considered in high-level decisions, they should at least be considered by people who comment on the state of the program.
November 29th, 2010 at 4:09 PM ^
Absolutely. They have a lot at stake in every game, too, and they don't like losing either. Coaching transitions tend to exacerbate that in the time frame that is relevant to a undergraduate. Further, they ostensibly don't just come here to play football, they're here to get an education, and having to make the choice of transferring or dealing with the added stress of regime change is certainly not going to help that.
As a larger point, I think that looking at the team itself: to me, they seem to be group of hard-working, upstanding young men who are as worthy of the title of "Michigan men" as any other group, who have put in the time for RRod and for their school. I don't think its right for one to talk about switching coaches without spending a lot of time talking to the athletes, because when it comes down to it, Rodriguez's first duty is to them, and if they still believe in him, why should we be so quick to disrupt things?
November 29th, 2010 at 2:33 PM ^
A fan scholarship?
November 29th, 2010 at 4:19 PM ^
If yes, you could always transfer if you're angry/upset enough to do so.
If not, then you technically don't have to be a fan if you don't want to do so.
But all that assumes you're disgruntled enough to transfer or stop being a fan. If not, disregard this post.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^
the players will have a say in whether they stay or not.
And, the recruits, (and possible recruits), will have a say in whether they like the decisions made when they sign their LOIs.
I wish the decision was made so we can all move on towards the bowl game and next year.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:57 PM ^
Agree 100%. May not happen but I wish DB would accelerate his time table and either make a move this week or give RR a contract extension as a vote of confidence.
Lett this linger on and on and on will affect recruiting, as speculation will only intensify the longer a definitive word from DB is delayed. This handicaps RR in terms of recruiting (if he's coming back), or, if a new coach is brought in will make his job with recruiting really difficult as well.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
deinifitely...I don't like the wait and listening to the speculations. I wonder if he will guage Harbaugh first, then keep RR if he can't get Harbaugh.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:45 PM ^
No. For most, RR is the only college coach they've ever had, so how can they make comparisons?
November 29th, 2010 at 1:45 PM ^
Players will almost always stand by their coach, since he and his staff recruited them. These players are well-documented to love RR, Barwis and the rest. I don't think any one of them would want him fired.
In the NFL, where players often pre-date coaches, and are much more independent anyway. Only in professional leagues would you get a Brad Childress situation.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:49 PM ^
"Only in professional leagues would you get a Brad Childress situation."
Or at Arkansas with Houston Nutt versus Mitch Mustain & Company.
Anybody remember how Mustain's mommy basically got Nutt fired because he wasn't throwing the ball all over the place with her son and his high school buddies? Nutt had the nerve to run the ball with two backs who became NFL starters. Mustain, meanwhile, rode the pine at USC until two games ago when he got destroyed by Oregon State's defense. Hmm.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:46 PM ^
Two words: Bobby Williams.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:47 PM ^
They will be part of Brandon's evaluation process, but not have any final say in the decision.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:48 PM ^
if they did, no coach would ever be fired.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^
Now that I think of it, Snoop dog probably is a better coach than Kiffin. But in Michigan's scenario DB will get feed back from the players, but ultimately it will be his decesion. I have faith, that DB will make the correct decision.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:55 PM ^
I mean, it worked for Big Ten Icons, so why not for this?
November 29th, 2010 at 1:53 PM ^
Why would want to change our coach when the chances of the team improving next year is so high (almost certain)?
Let's say for argument sakes that RichRod did screw up during the transition and did not retain enough talent from Carr days, which seems to be a popular tirade from fire RichRod crowd. So what? It is not like RichRod is going to go through another transition here. Transition days are over, even if he is really bad at it, it makes no difference as there are no transitions to be had.
If you bring in another coach, that means that you WILL have a transition when you absolutely don't have to. Sure, it could go well, but it could go horribly wrong as well. Why would you take that chance when you do not have to? That is crazy!!!
This team is young, but they are going to get a year older and almost every key player is coming back. Nobody can seriously argue that this team is not going to get better. The only question is how much better they will be. Don't you want to find out the answer to the question before rolling the dice with yet another transition years?
November 29th, 2010 at 2:01 PM ^
I would like him to succeed if for no other reason than the pride involved when everyone said he couldn't win in the Big 10. If he managed to do so, then everyone would write off the last 3 years. If we fire him, then we continue to be the butt of jokes. That's the worst part of all of this is how we constantly get killed by all the msm who have little or no knowledge about what is really going on in Schembechler.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:10 PM ^
and what if he doesnt succeed? so far he has proven that he incapable for winning big ten games. he has yet to show that he could win this conference. maybe he can. but there is nothing to suggest that he could.
all of this talk that the D will be better, and the O will be amazing, those are all assumptions. He hasnt come within 20 point of beating the better teams in this conference.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^
Why would want to change our coach when the chances of the team improving next year is so high (almost certain)?
Because a lot of us suspect that any improvement would be marginal and would not outweigh the costs of not making the move:
1. Retaining an unpopular coach could mean another year of bad publicity (which can affect recruiting) and quite possibly reduced ticket sales and donations
2. Waiting a year might mean missing out on Harbaugh altogether. If the Michigan job isn't there this year, he could well go to the NFL - making it much more unlikely that he'd come here in 2012. (And if plan B is Brady Hoke, that could be out the window as well, given that he's likely to take the Minnesota job.) We could find ourselves firing RR a year from now and caught flat-footed.
3. The Big Ten's divisional setup and cross-divisional rivalries are only in place for the next two years. After 2012, the league will re-examine its setup and may make changes. There's a general sense that the Michigan brand has been eroded in value after the last three years. How confident are you that we can be competitive with OSU the next two years under RR, given what you've witnessed? How confident can you be that we'll contend for the Big Ten next year or the year after (when we return Denard but lose quite a few key players)? If we don't make a serious upward move, we could find ourselves in a much weaker position in the next round of realignment. (Of course, we don't know if Harbaugh would perform better, but it's easier to give the "We were rebuilding" excuse to the league when it happens in years 1 and 2 of a coach's tenure, rather than years 4 and 5.)
November 29th, 2010 at 2:29 PM ^
JM, I know we've had our disagreements, but surely we can agree that Brady Hoke is not the answer?
November 29th, 2010 at 2:39 PM ^
Before he made not one but two really bad programs good. And while not qualified at the time, was pretty unfair too. Though I don't think he's the answer now. Frankly, if Rich doesn't work out, I think we COULD get him from Minnesota. I just don't think he'd look very attractive after year 1 of Gopherland.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:32 PM ^
Let's go through your reasons one by one.
1. Bad publicity/sales - If we hire a new coach, he can very well tank like RichRod did with transitions, especially if he does not get the reins till after January. one or two more years of .500 football is going to be worse than 2 more years of 7-5 or better. This is not a reason to switch
2. Missing out on Harbaugh - this to me is the real reason why so many are jonesing for the coaching change. Harbaugh is no guarantee to success. RichRod had better much better established record coming in. Going after sexy coaching names is what got ND into trouble and exactly what OSU DID NOT DO in their (very) successful coaching change.
3. Realignment - this has to be the worst reason I have yet to hear on why we need a coaching change. So that we can have a better slot in the (possible) realignment??? Seriously???
This is the worst possible time for a change, just after you spent all this time and effort to sow the seeds and tilled the land. There will be plenty of time to fire the coach next year if this team tanks. There will be yet another sexy coaching candidate next year too.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:58 PM ^
You are brimming with common sense today, Comrade.
November 29th, 2010 at 3:56 PM ^
Would you please quit it with the Ruskie talk. It's annoying as hell.
November 29th, 2010 at 4:44 PM ^
Look, the alternative is that he calls himself Peggy and tries to pass himself off as American. You don't want that.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:42 PM ^
...but how much do you hate RR to say any improvement will be marginal?
How many returners do you need to think things will improve?
How many freshmen need to play before you say well maybe we are overmatched?
I am a RR suck up, but how can you look anyone in the eye and not think we have a decent chance of being the #1 offense in the country? Not #2, but #1. We return every single QB RB and WR. The line anchored by Molk with potential NFL studs in Lewan and Omameh improving will be better even losing Schilling.
I don't think TWolf is Charles Woodson but compared to J. Rogers the leap might be. You have no faith in the D line? Martin RVB Roh Black looks pretty dam good in my book and I don't know if he'll do the UFR but I think K. Demens just announced himself to the Big 10 on Saturday. He was making great hits. It goes on and on. We'll find a kicker, the secondary will learn from this and on and on and on.....
November 29th, 2010 at 1:54 PM ^
MSU did that once and got Bobby Williams...
November 29th, 2010 at 1:55 PM ^
I would say no they shouldnt have say in the matter, but they may be able to influence the matter. See Minnesota Vikings and how they went out of their way to approach the media about feelings regarding Childress. Although that is the NFL, no reason why it can't be done on a collegiate level.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:55 PM ^
Did it go well whenever Dwayne Wade decided to become GM of the Miami Heat?
(I know this is not the NBA, but still....)
Leave the playing up to the players.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:56 PM ^
No. Many coaches that need to be fired are liked by the team, therefore, they wouldn't fire him even if he needed to be.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:58 PM ^
Wow, this is easy...NO.