DFP piece on Harbaugh as QB Whisperer
Rainer Sabin at the Detroit Free Press wrote an article discussing Harbaugh's QB development in light of Patterson and his time with Michigan. Most of the piece is information that has been rehashed on the boards.
"When Gil Brandt saw Shea Patterson three years ago at the Manning Passing Academy in Louisiana, the former Dallas Cowboys executive believed the quarterback from Ole Miss was set to become a top NFL prospect.
“I thought he was a really good player,” said Brandt, an NFL.com analyst. “As good as any.”
But by the time Brandt cobbled together his scouting report on Patterson earlier this year, his opinion changed.
He saw a player who was spooked in the face of pressure and inconsistent in his performance, devolving in his final season at Michigan into a risky bet for an NFL team."
Source: Detroit Free Press, Rainer Sabin, 4/30/2020
April 30th, 2020 at 10:23 AM ^
Your headline is misleading. The article is not about Jim Harbaugh being a QB whisperer. The article aims to discuss why Shea Patterson did not get drafted and discusses Harbaugh's "nickname" as a QB whisperer. Still, the article is not about Jim.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:40 AM ^
The backdrop to me, right in the middle of the article, is Harbaugh's past performance in QB development vs his time at Michigan and Patterson is being showcased as evidence...I mean right in the title of the article it alludes to this.
IMO the article is a fairly high brow indictment of Harbaugh by the author...I would point to Rainer terming Harbaugh's assessment of himself "don't want to toot my own horn" as curious given the facts of 5 years of QB development at Michigan.
But hey I could be wrong have been so before!
April 30th, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
There was one sentence or two. That was it.
April 30th, 2020 at 11:37 AM ^
Does anyone remember Patterson's first play of last year's season ? Kid struggled for most of the year (likely with an injury) ... but rumor is that he did lower his golf handicap. /s
Go Blue!
April 30th, 2020 at 11:01 AM ^
The title was misleading. Let’s be honest though, if you don’t know that anything that refers to Harbaugh as a “qb whisperer” isn’t going to be written from a profoundly negative point of view, I don’t know what to tell you.
April 30th, 2020 at 11:52 AM ^
There's a whole section to this article that deals with the coaching -- Harbaugh's track record of QB development from Josh Johnson to Shea and the transition to the Gattis offense.
The article is not directly about Jim, but it's about him by extension. If all we care about is beating OSU and winning conference titles, then the last two years with Shea were a bust. We would've been better off developing Peters, McCaffrey and Milton. We could have a fifth-year QB (with two full seasons as starter) starting for us in the Fall, or a seasoned backup in DMac or Milton.
April 30th, 2020 at 12:52 PM ^
2019 was the year to go for the Big 10 title. We had OSU at home and only needed to beat Wis OR PSU on the road. Wisconsin was a disaster, PSU almost happened and the defense shit the bed again against OSU.
Going with Shea as a returning starter, coming off a season with 64% completions and 149 QBR, was a good plan. The problem with the plan is that Gattis (or a Gattis-like OC) should have been brought in in 2018, not 2019, so that we didn’t have to break in a new offense in 2019.
Here's an interesting little factoid. There were 337 players invited to the 2020 NFL combine this year. 336 are now currently on an NFL roster.
The ONLY one not signed? Shea Patterson.
That's a kick in the nuts almost equal to the year that Harbaugh/Michigan blew the B1G's perfect bowl record by shitting the bed against USC.
That featured one of the slowest, most boring vanilla offenses I’ve ever witnessed. Fuck the 2017 season.
hmmm...interesting
Didn’t know that. That cuts deep. That does make me feel bad for him.
Agree and thought we missed some chances to play Dmac more last season. Late in the OSU game he should’ve been given the last couple of drives and get some experience playing in the game. Just scratch my head sometimes wondering what the behind the scenes reasons were with sticking with Shea so much
What Mercury Hayes said plus Fuck the Free Press
April 30th, 2020 at 10:28 AM ^
It's really hard to get a read on Harbaugh as QB coach at this point in his career. Probably "his", or in reality probably Pep's or the new QB coach's, best development work at Michigan was with Wilton. He was clearly not a very good QB, but Harbaugh and his support staff managed to make him look somewhere between good and great in that first year.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:39 AM ^
Jed Fisch might not have gotten more respectable offers in his career post-Michigan, but it sure seems like his presence on the staff had a positive correlation with development of the QB room. It's been a roller coaster since he left.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
I was going to mention Jedd, but I don't recall him being called out as working with the QBs, despite being the passing game coordinator - maybe he was, but I just assumed Harbaugh was more hands on at that time.
Delving into my point a little more. I'm not sure how much Harbaugh actually has to do with the QBs now that Ben McDaniels is the QB coach. It seems much more likely to me that McDaniels sucks than it does that Harbaugh forgot how to coach.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:58 AM ^
Based on Speight's own words from interviews it was Fisch that had the most impact on him and his development, and it was who he turned to; eg. threw a pick and when he came off the field he was on the phone with Fisch up in the box right away getting guidance and coaching.
April 30th, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
Thanks for the info. And Fisch was gone the year Wilton sucked - correct?
April 30th, 2020 at 11:14 AM ^
Correct. He didn't mesh well with Pep.
April 30th, 2020 at 12:53 PM ^
I think scheme plays a big part in how QBs develop as well. Jedd was able to work with the QBs and tailor the offensive scheme to fit their strengths. "Good shit, Jedd" is coming to mind at the moment.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:28 AM ^
The article should have focused on Harbaugh's inability to develop players, especially QB's.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:40 AM ^
We've had what, 31 drafted players in the last five years?
Our record against OSU record is painful, but honestly, a lot of it is them being really good, it's not just us screwing up.
April 30th, 2020 at 11:06 AM ^
31 drafted players is nice to mention but it disguises how terrible Michigan is with what matters the most in football these days: offensive skill position players.
One QB drafted from Michigan since Harbaugh has been here at the back end of the draft. The highest a WR has gone under Harbaugh was 106. I’ll give an asterisk to TE since Butt would’ve certainly went higher without his knee injury. We haven’t had any true RB’s drafted since Mike Hart. And the kicker: Michigan hasn’t had an offensive skill position player drafted from 2006 to present that has made a Pro Bowl.
If you want one of the main problems of this program, there it is. And please spare me the bagman excuses. Wisconsin has been able to develop Pro Bowlers at these positions recently. Pitt has had two RB’s drafted since 06 make Pro Bowls. Fresno Fing State has had a pro bowl WR, QB and RB enter the league since 06.
No, Harbaugh is not guilty of all of the sins of this program 06 to present but I don’t see things changing much on this specific front either.
April 30th, 2020 at 11:40 AM ^
Totally agree with this. Michigan can't punch back in big games, especially on the road, when they get down because they haven't had any "give me the fucking ball" players in a while. I continue to believe the program is set up very well with elite-level players at most positions, and when an elite QB shows up Michigan can and will make the jump. Not to OSU levels because they've entered top 3 with Alabama/Clemson. But to the UGA/LSU/OKL tier trying to attack those programs from a position in the Top 10.
But yeah a RB, WR, or TE with playmaking ability would go a long way. Nico is that guy, hopefully Charbonnet and Haskins are as well, and Eubanks could have a great year as the primary TE.
April 30th, 2020 at 11:56 AM ^
Considering he’s given the job to grad transfers every year, he hasn’t shown what he’s done with guys he started with outside Peters. JH was kind of stuck with 1. Needing to win quickly 2. A less talented QB room when he arrived and 3. Short first month to recruit his guy.
Since year 1, he has not done a good job of quickly getting multiple high-rated QBs to come in the same class and compete against each other. I blame UM’s status being downward, and his picking grad Rudock at the start and then pursuing O’Korn and Oh Shea.
He has not given the appearance to me as one of his bigger fans, that he’s truly pushing QB competition. He seems to have favorites and he doesn’t seem to put enough into getting known talent. He now has a few 4-stars on the roster that took years to accomplish, but he could have cut that time in half—or maybe he tried and failed to do so?
Even RichRod brought in both Tate and Denard at the same and wasn’t afraid to pull the trigger. Why doesn’t Harbaugh have two classes in a row with two Top 20 QBs? How hard has he tried? I don’t know, but the results and his conservative change of guard are part of the lacking for years at QB.
One QB drafted from Michigan since Harbaugh has been here at the back end of the draft. The highest a WR has gone under Harbaugh was 106. I’ll give an asterisk to TE since Butt would’ve certainly went higher without his knee injury. We haven’t had any true RB’s drafted since Mike Hart. And the kicker: Michigan hasn’t had an offensive skill position player drafted from 2006 to present that has made a Pro Bowl.
Michigan's lack of explosive plays (and their inability to stop them) against peer opponents has been their primary Achilles Heel in the Harbaugh era. It is very hard to win consistently when you have to grind out every drive.
We haven’t had any true RB’s drafted since Mike Hart.
Michigan hasn’t had an offensive skill position player drafted from 2006 to present that has made a Pro Bowl.
This is an indictment of the program over the span of four coaches. I don't think it's a coincidence that our struggles with OSU accelerated around 2004-05.
It hasn't helped that there've been dramatic breaks in coaching continuity from Carr to RR to Hoke to Harbaugh, with offensive schemes changing significantly from coach to coach.
Meanwhile OSU goes from Tressel, who had already moved from a pro-set to a much more wide open, spread-the-field approach by the time he quit, so the transition from Tressel to Meyer to Day was much less dramatic, with sole bump of the single year under Fickell. In that sense OSU has been like Wisconsin—a program with an established identity on offense that doesn't change year to year to year. They know what they want to do and recruit players to fit that, and in OSU's case, they recruit at an extremely high level.
Pro Bowl isn't a great metric. Ohio State has had a grand total of 2 such players over that span.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:36 AM ^
There seems to be a different standard for good and bad qb play for the media as opposed to real life football. I would consider Shea a capable player who made too many errors last year in addition to becoming gun shy after that rib injury. It was probably a transition cost of changing OCs.
Was he 2019 Joe Burrow? No. Was he "trash" in every game? Absolutely not. It's a joke that lewerke has a roster spot and Patterson does not. Does not matter now either way. On to Dylan and Joe.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
People keep making this comparison to Lewerky and it seems crazy initially but I think in reviewing their styles of play it actually makes sense.
BL is a more polished guy who plays within the system of the playbook. Shea bugs out at any sign of pressure (sometimes at no sign of pressure) and although he can sometimes make a play by improvising and using his feet, NFL GMs know that just won’t fly in the league. Not without Vick level athleticism and arm strength. Much like Johnny Manziel, that shit can work in college, but there’s no way it works in the NFL
April 30th, 2020 at 10:58 AM ^
Here’s a test. Would your Sparty friends have rather have had Patterson than BL the last 2 years? I say yes. Would we have rather had BL? I say no.
April 30th, 2020 at 11:15 AM ^
I think Lewerke is getting a chance based on potential. MSU’s offensive system was abysmal the last two years, Lewerke showed some signs but wasn’t consistent. Shea had 4 NFL draft OL, 4 elite receivers, decent RB and competent tight end play. If he can’t thrive in that system NFL teams probably figure that he has hit his low ceiling.
As a Spartan I can answer: it doesn't matter who was at QB at MSU. They would have sucked because the line couldn't block a pee wee team. If Shea was at MSU, he probably wouldn't have looked anything like an NFL QB because he wouldn't really have had much of a chance (that's a knock on the MSU offense, not on Shea). If Lewerke was playing behind 4 NFL draft picks up front, he probably would have done a lot better than he did at MSU.
Receivers who were so elite they were taken in the 6th round of the draft. It's time for the "elite receivers" narrative to die. Jerry Jeudy is an elite receiver. Michigan's were not.
Do you not recall the cries to throw the ball to Nico more? DPJ was also the only one of our four receivers to go to the draft. I wasn’t aware our ‘receivers’ all went in the 6th round this year.
Yeah, one of them is at Texas now. Another one dropped the potential game tying touchdown against Penn State. Elite, without question.
April 30th, 2020 at 11:21 AM ^
Actually no, I doubt they'd rather have had Patterson. They'd rather have a better Online and from therr Lewerke may have been just fine. Patterson wouldn't have added much to that offense and behind that Oline for 2 years would have looked a disaster as well.
Shea felt like he always had to run for his life. Lewerke actually had to. That doesn’t mean if roles were reversed that the outcome for either would have been different, but Lewerke certainly didn’t have the resources that Shea had. Dantonio simply abused Lewerke the last two years. I don’t know that any BIG qb played hurt more than he did.
April 30th, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^
If Patterson was fleeing the pocket with the protection he got from our OL, imagine what he would have done behind the pickup OL in East Lansing.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:59 AM ^
I agree and would also add MSU has done a pretty decent job of getting their QBs NFL ready during MD's tenure there.
April 30th, 2020 at 11:18 AM ^
Andrew Luck was a blessing and curse for Harbaugh. Everyone expects that every QB Harbaugh coaches should be Luck.
I also don't think it helps that we're now in the era of one man shows like Joe Burrow and true freshmen coming in and starting, when that is not the reality for most teams
April 30th, 2020 at 12:12 PM ^
No one expects every QB to be Luck. I think everyone expects each QB to be at least draftable.
Also true freshman starting is not new...we've had multiple QBs here alone that started as true freshman. Leach, Driesbach, Henne, Forcier.
Wait, what? Lewerke got a roster spot? Good lord.
I don’t understand people saying it’s wrong Lewerke is on an NFL team but Shea isn’t. The NFL would sign the devil if they thought he could help them. No team thinks Shea is worth signing but someone thinks Lewerke is. It’s not a question of fair it’s who can get the job done and the one who can gets the position
April 30th, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
What I need explained to me is why it was long assumed that Shea was an elite prospect with slam dunk NFL potential.
He has good athleticism and above average arm strength. Neither seemed elite.
He has zero pocket presence and below average decision making. Did these actually regress or did he just never develop them?
I feel like the hype was simply never justified.
As I said in a now deleted thread: He was a good college QB, not great, a victim of hype.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:46 AM ^
I think Shea that graduated from Michigan was a slightly worse QB than Shea that graduate HS. Some dudes just develop early and then can't make the next step, or regress when asked to do more than they're capable of. I think DPJ somewhat falls into that category too.
Of course, some of that falls onto the coaches but not all of it.
April 30th, 2020 at 10:52 AM ^
That's very true but how would we rate the development of the QBs that Harbaugh brought in and have been with the program for years? How many years does it take to establish a QB program at a P5 school that prepares players to start in a game?
April 30th, 2020 at 11:00 AM ^
Forgetting even the brought in part. Outside of Jake and Wilton, the development has been shit.
Shea showed up Shea and left a slightly worse version of himself
O'Korn never became serviceable
Peters never became serviceable
DMC remains TBD
Milton showed up super raw and hasn't demonstrated that's still not the case
That's clearly not good enough and it's the number one reason why Michigan can't take the next step. They've been a genuinely good QB away from winning 11 or 12 games in multiple seasons.