CC; Impact on Recruiting
Recruiting is one of the few things that Brady Hoke seems to have done well during his tenure as HC.
In a lot of ways, Michigan sells itself to recruits, or at least it did before the suckfest began in 2008.
Everyone seems to think that recruits will flock to JH because of his recent NFL experience (and many other reasons). Is there anything about him that potential recruits will find off putting? Do his California connections put that state more in play?
Does Les Miles open up Louisiana and other southern states? Or will he try to bring in too many kids that "ain't come to play school"?
Are there any other candidates that can potentially open up recruiting areas that Michigan hasn't done well in historically?
December 12th, 2014 at 1:01 PM ^
would open up the depths of hell for us to recruit in.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^
and Jim Harbaugh will open up the gates of heaven for us to recruit in.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^
No, it's Michigan Stadium
December 12th, 2014 at 1:57 PM ^
Is there a difference?
December 12th, 2014 at 2:01 PM ^
The price of water.
December 12th, 2014 at 3:56 PM ^
And, you can believe the attendance figures
December 12th, 2014 at 5:47 PM ^
can get into Michigan Stadium..
December 12th, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^
I'm sure a lot of the recruiting changes will come down to who the new assistants are as well. Which I haven't heard a ton about in this coaching search...who would Harbaugh (and maybe Miles too) be bringing on as OC and DC?
If we're looking at guys strictly in terms of recruiting I think Tom Herman has got to be top of the list. That dude got JT Barrett out of Texas.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^
WE recruit ourself .... a top notch coach means we're top 6 vs. top 15. This is STILL Michigan.
Academics 2nd to none, Stadium 2nd to none, and general student life 2nd to none.
December 12th, 2014 at 2:52 PM ^
Take off the maize-tinted glasses man and look at the last 8 years. Since App St. this team has been a train wreck.
Yes we have a great stadium...my favorite place to watch a game. There's also Ohio Stadium, Notre Dame, The Swamp, Death Valley, Bryant-Denny, Jordan-Hare, DKR, Rose Bowl, Coliseum, etc. etc. that have a comparable atmosphere on gamedays. Not even including somewhere like Camp Randall or Nebraska's Memorial Stadium, two programs that have been much better than Michigan over the time period I mentioned.
Yes we have a cool college town in Ann Arbor. But try telling that to Austin, Athens, Madison, Columbus, etc. Some people prefer A2 to those but not all. I live in A2 and I prefer it to some I named but not to all.
Yes we have great academics. But so do Stanford, Cal, UNC, UCLA, and Texas to name a few. This is probably the area where we have the best edge vs the SEC schools.
Perceptions of this program have been trending downward for a while now...we're still a top tier program, sure, but the gap has closed compared to ten years ago. To claim recruiting doesn't matter and that it will always be fine is flat-out ignorant. It won't hurt us as much this year as we can only take a small class anyway, but it's still something to be concerned about. I am fine with sacrificing recruiting this year to get a great coach, since a good onfield coach can overcome deficiencies in recruiting.
December 12th, 2014 at 3:33 PM ^
As an alum I hate to say this but I think development towards a succesful career in the NFL is probably reasons 1-10 with a lot of recruits these days. Wasn't that the reason Garrett Taylor mentioned in his decommitment?
There will always be players who want to come to Michigan for the obvious reasons of tradition, childhood "favorite" - although that one always seems to get knocked away, stadium, etc. but many are going to college to get to the NFL.
If the school puts out NFL players on a regular you are going to get better recruits*.
*Yes, I am aware of the academics involved.
December 12th, 2014 at 5:04 PM ^
My friend, its time to take a step back and get a view of reality. The brand is in shambles, and the general Michigan arrogance doesn't allow us to turn ourselves around and get moving in the right direction. As fans, we need a big ole slice of humble pie.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:07 PM ^
think Harbaugh could be off-putting to some recruits, but I don't think they are guys he would go after anyway. He has some Bobby Knight to him. He does seem to be a bit of an egomaniac, but I think it is less a "control" issue with Harbaugh and more that he expects other people to live and breath football as much as he does. Nobody would be given anything. Put it this way, Funchess would not have been converted into a wide receiver because he doesn't block, he would have been benched for that reason.
I don't think Miles brings us all that much in terms of recruiting. LSU is a program that "sells itself" as you put it, and he is not a guy with deep running ties that would really pull players from there. He may be able to recruit Louisiana well because of his status there, but then again he may be viewed as the ultimate trader as well.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
am sure there are some recruits who don't want to play for Nick Saban because he will expect that from them. There are certain high level players that view college football as a vehicle to get to the NFL and not much more. If team success happens to occur they are all for it but it is not an end in and of itself. Not saying that Harbaugh would not be a "net gain" in terms of recruiting, but the question was will he be off-putting to certain recruits.
I am just saying that Harbaugh simply does not tolerate failure as opposed to merely disliking it. You will never here Harbaugh mention "good practice" in his list of positive things. I think there may be certain players on the roster right now that could not or will not be able to play for Harbaugh if he comes.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
Rings. 4 of them, to be exact, with a very good chance of making it 5 next month. When you have those to your name, you can be the most egomaniacal dick in the world and kids will want to come play for you. They'll step all over each other to do it because they know you'll turn them into winners.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 12th, 2014 at 1:21 PM ^
Are there any qualities about Jim Harbaugh that certain recruits will find off-putting?
My Answer: Yes, probably. It looks like your Answer is that the question should have been framed differently. I accept that there could be a different question asked that would have resulted in a different answer.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:46 PM ^
Do they want to play Football or Bake a Cake?
December 12th, 2014 at 1:52 PM ^
it depends on who you ask. We had some shiny recruits this year that did quite a bit of baking and they actually did not look at that bothered by it.
December 12th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
I'd be very happy to avoid the kids who find Harbaugh to be offputting. He is basically Nick Saban. A perfectionist. So is Urban Meyer although Meyer probably feels more cuddly than Nick or Jimbo to a college age kid. All are very driven people who demand excellence. If that puts you off, then you should not come. Charlie Strong looks like he is going down that path too.
Also the Jim you see on the sideline or I am sure in practice is not the same guy off the field. Someone posted a video of him doing a speech at Stanford to parents and he was very laid back, and engaging.
December 13th, 2014 at 1:37 AM ^
Meyer probably feels more cuddly than Nick or Jimbo to a college age kid.
How scary is that? Meyer looks forever constipated when he has to do anything remotely social.
December 12th, 2014 at 4:37 PM ^
December 12th, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^
which displays the total amount in contract money his last year's graduating players received in the NFL. I believe one year was around $60,000,000.
What more needs to be said?
December 12th, 2014 at 1:48 PM ^
You never know what they're like in person around these kids. I was always confounded as to how Jim Tressel, who seemed like the supreme dork on TV, was able to appeal to 16-17 year-olds. I am still confounded as to how Mark Dantonio, who I cannot imagine in any situation as being anything other than utterly, irredeemably unlikeable and awful to be around, appeals to pretty much anyone.
December 12th, 2014 at 6:20 PM ^
Winning cures everything.
December 12th, 2014 at 6:21 PM ^
Winning cures everything.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:42 PM ^
Jim Harbaughs Coaching Personality with his Non - Coaching Personality?
He learned from his Dad and Bo. You might see him on the sidelines, but not on the sidelines and what you don't see is that he is a Super Nice Guy. If you have heard otherwise - Explain.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:05 PM ^
the regional-recruiting thing can be over blown a bit. I think a successful coach will be able to recruit outside of their region. I mean, We've gotten some good players out of the Atlantic region because we had a good recruiter.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:08 PM ^
Any coach who comes in with a track record for success will recruit very well right off the bat. Look at James Franklin - PSU isn't as big of a name as MIchigan and James Franklin hasn't had a ton of success as a HC, but some. Yet just by being "new" and selling "hope" he has recruited incredibly well. Hoke did the same thing, remember? Any new Michigan coach will sell to recruits all the normal Michigan stuff plus "bringing Michigan back to the top." That will last a couple years regardless of on-field success, and then we will have to win.
That's why I don't care how long it takes to get a coach. When we get one, recruits will come. What I care about is getting a coach who can win so that the recruits keep coming 3+ years down the road.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
though I've wondered whether some of the leaks are an effort to keep recruiting from falling off a cliff.
if I were a kid getting recruited (or one who has committed) I'd want to keep my options open if a Harbaugh or Miles were likely to come. Feeding the rumor mill could be a way to keep competing programs at bay until the cavalry arrives.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:09 PM ^
He was a winner here!
He was a winner in the NFL!
He was a winner at Stanford!
Michigan is the Winningest Program . . .
December 12th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
No, yes, yes, no, yes
You are 12 days in to this, why don't you have more points than me yet?
December 12th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
Dude IS fully engaged isn't he?
December 12th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
"Yer gonna be my next Ray Lewis...." works even better with Harbaugh. I suspect he'd assemble a fine (obv small) recruiting class this year and he'd open pretty much any door in the country (outside of some in ohio I suspect).
Miles knows the rules very well and I think his behavior would change for the better upon landing in A2.
I don't think either is our coach next year, but I remain hopeful for JH.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:14 PM ^
We're worrying too much about how potentially off-putting Harbaugh's style would be when we don't even know if he'd want to come here. And for the record, if kids can be attracted to Nick Saban's style of personality, they can be attracted to Harbaugh's, too.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 12th, 2014 at 1:21 PM ^
December 13th, 2014 at 1:42 AM ^
They will want to play for Harbaugh for the same reason they want to play for Saban . . . he's proven that he wins, and he will get them into the NFL.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^
By all accounts recruits love Saban's personality and style, it's one of the biggest reasons they go play for him. Alabama didn't sell itself the first year or two in recruiting. It's a machine now but it wasn't always that way.
December 12th, 2014 at 2:15 PM ^
Is someone here asking us to break down the personality of Jim Harbaugh?
I personally have never met him to know if there is anything off putting about him. I have heard he is an extremely nice guy. I have watched how passionate he is about football. I have heard the rumor mill as much as anybody else about him. I take the rumors with a grain of salt.
In person, I don't have a clue. Not on the football field I wouldn't have a clue.
If I had to guess, I would guess he is highly intelligent, very friendly and charasmatic and that any recruit in person would be very impressed with his personality.
Harbaugh to Michigan: Greatest Coaching Hire I can think of.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:23 PM ^
This is OT to the OP but someone I know just told me that David Shaw has a connection to the area. Apparently his dad was a Lions Assistant in the 90s and he went to Rochester Adams for year or two. Personally I'd be disappointed if Shaw was offered the job because I think his teams have been inconsistent but just wanted to throw that out there.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:26 PM ^
sound like a very strong connection. I put the chances of Shaw to Michigan at roughly 0%.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
Here are the states that Jim Harbaugh's recruits came from in his final class at Stanford:
Georgia (2)
Colorado (2)
Texas (4)
Arizona (2)
Alabama (2)
Utah
Indiana
California (4)
Virginia
New Jersey
Minnesota
Nevada
That's 12 states represented out of 22 players altogether, with 15 of them coming from outside the states holding Pac-12 teams. I would say his success at Stanford and in the NFL would open up doors across the country, including in California.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^
that's pretty impressive. Thanks for doing the research.
I think Harbaugh's stats at Stanford are particularly important as he would be going after the same type of players at Michigan. At least in regards to their academic ability.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:43 PM ^
I was going to post that Harbaugh did really well nationally for Stanford, which fed the program for the four years after he left. It'll be interesting to see if Shaw's recruiting will hold up like Harbaugh's did.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:47 PM ^
The post-Harbaugh classes at Stanford have been similarly diverse geographically and their basketball recruiting follows a similar pattern. The school is in a unique position in that it is by a wide margin the best spot academically where you can play high level sports. For regular students, Stanford's peers are Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and MIT rather than Cal or Michigan, or even Duke.
Anyone serious about academics is going to have them right at the top of their list (which is why they excel at the Olympic sports), but they also have to look a little harder to find folks who can get in and succeed academically. Stanford is both attractive nationally to student athletes and requires its coaches to search nationally for qualified kids.
It does seem like great practice for recruiting at Michigan, a place that has national pull but not a terribly strong recruiting base.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:36 PM ^
Saban gets guys into the league. That's his main selling point I would suspect. I would imagine the winning is to a certain point secondary. I don't think there a better school recently at getting kids into the league. For a 4 or 5 star recruit, regardless of what they might say that's what it's about.
Harbaugh has some serious cred because he has both played in the league and coached in the league at a very high level. I see no reason why Harbaugh would not be able to recruit with best of them. He even has some high level Stanford players to point to.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^
What the hell do we care about the effects of a recruiting class that we'll see 3 or 4 years down the road? If we get a coach that can attract kids, develop talent and win early this class will have very little impact on the overall program. We only have what? 16 spots anyway? There are 115 kids in the program. The thing that hurts a new coach more than anything would be the veteran kids who leave the program. If you think Rich Rod's ability to recruit was hurt by losing it's fair to say that his ability to win early was affected much more by losing Ryan Mallett and Donovan Warren than who he recruited.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:43 PM ^
Two transfers were responsible for all of RR's woes at Michigan.
His recruiting at Michigan was a problem as I think he tried to get too many academically boarderline guys in.
/not looking for a RR flame war
December 12th, 2014 at 2:12 PM ^
Since you brought up RR: remember that "Michigan men" were telling HS coaches in this region not to send their kids to Michigan. RR did a remarkable job, considering that a considerable amount of boosters, alums and ex-coaches and players were sabotaging recruiting.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:47 PM ^
Donovan Warren stuck around through the transition. He played at Michigan from 2007-2009, which includes Rodriguez's first two seasons.
I truly don't think there are a lot of veteran kids who would leave the program if Harbaugh were hired. Not only because Harbaugh is a similar type of coach offensively, but because he would be viewed as Michigan's "savior," a guy coming home to help out his alma mater. What kid who committed to Michigan for its tradition would walk away from a coach like that? (I'm not saying that NOBODY would transfer, but it's unlikely there would be a mass exodus.)
Furthermore, the veteran players have more to lose by transferring. All the guys who redshirted already would have to sit out another year before they could play elsewhere. The players most likely to transfer would be the backup linemen, defensive backs, linebackers - mostly young guys - who are blocked for playing time.