Build your own greatest Michigan basketball team - here's mine
I went to the game Sunday and watched a God-awful OSU team pummel an even more God-awful Michigan team. If you had the misfortune of witnessing it like I did you know that game set the game of basketball back about 10 years which made me think about years gone by when times were much, much better. So I decided to build my all-time Michigan basketball team with starters, back-ups, bench, the head coach and players who just missed the cut.
Starters
- Center - Chris Weber
- SF - Glen Rice
- PF - Rudy Tomjanovich
- SG - Cazzie Russell
- PG - Gary Grant
2nd team
- Center - Phil Hubbard
- SF - Campy Russell
- PF - Bill Buntin
- SG - Mike McGee
- PG - Trey Burke
Reserves
- Jalen Rose
- Nik Stauskas
Just missed the cut
- Juwan Howard
- Roy Tarpley
- Rickey Green
- Henry Wilmore
Head Coach
John Beilein (over Johnny Orr & Bill Frieder)
Evaluation
My team will be strong on the boards with Rice, Tomjanovich & Webber so not a lot of second shot opportunities for the opposition. We will score a ton with both Rice & Russell leading the way and Grant will give us tremendous "on ball" defense as well as the chance to push tempo when we need to. My starting five is relatively small (only C-Webb is over 6'7") so large physical teams will be a challenge. Leaving both Tarpley & Howard off my reserves was tough but I needed a lights out three ball shooter to open up the floor when necessary (hi Nic) and I had to find a roster spot for Jalen. At 6'9' he can play literally any position on the floor if and when needed. I suspect some of you might question my selections of Mike McGee & Campy Russell but both were scoring machines at Michigan and at 6'8" & 6'5" respectfully each brings nice size to the 2nd unit. Phil Hubbard, before his knee injury, was one the best basketball players I've ever seen and while I never had the pleasure of watching Buntin play, every single historical record point to him being the only a shade behind Cazzie on those great 1960's Michigan teams.
Who's on your all-time Michigan team?
So many great players mGrow. I really like your starting five. I don't think I could just pick five.
Well this is more fun than having a shot in the conference tourney and playing again soon.
Yeah, im grumpy. This blows. Its one thing to be average or below... there has been no joy even watching the team grow or progress and its utterly infuriating to watch.
I used to love watching our team a few times a week... the last few years have been dreck. just not fun at all.
All time team is remarkably weak, imo, given the success we've had. we just haven't had players who have been elite at the next level (so they're not household names).
I'll do a post-2000 round
PG - Derrick Walton
SG - Nick Stauskas
SF - Waggy poo #2
PF - Waggy poo #1 (Mo)
C - Teske (less drama)
Bench:
Burke
MAAR - dude was a dog
Hunter
Healthy Livers
Duncan (the pro)?
Good collection of players, OP.
Are we looking only at how someone performed at Michigan, or overall talent level? Also, how much does the accomplishment of the team matter? (That would boost the score for someone like Trey Burke, who I think is less talented than Rickey Green.) Should overall career be considered? (In that case, Duncan Robinson replaces Nik Stauskas.)
Lots of posts and I didn't notice any mention of Franz Wagner. (And he's a "Beilein guy" to many, too!) I think he should be somewhere on the list. I'd probably bump Stauskas because of his defensive limitations, even though he did lots of cool things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_dsZbNUbY
I liked the mention of McGary. Here's another: Jamal Crawford. I thought he was very good in his half-season.
One other thing: No way is Jalen Rose 6'9". I've stood next to him and I'm pretty sure he's no more than 6'6" and change.
Good call on Crawford!
Jalen's listed height was 6'8"... you're right he was probably 6'6" - 6'7" (plus great hops).
That said Jalen is probably my #1 UM bball player ever, and that's saying a lot given my love for Burke, Walton, Rumeal, Rice, Mo Taylor, Duncan, Nik, etc.
plenty of nice lineups here. id find a way to include jamal crawford. only played 1 year but not many top him in terms of pure talent
Here's a hot take. John Beilein is bad at coaching and managing super star players. I think Fisher is better in that regard.
For that 89 tournament Fisher was Beilein. We went up against what was probably one of the best rosters the big ten has ever seen (Illini) and came away with a victory. "Bombs away" was the coaching he gave Higgins and Rice that day.
Fisher has become a very good basketball coach but he was not a very good basketball coach when he coached at Michigan. Many pipe up to say that "he didn't just roll out the basketballs and let them play" but that is exactly what he did. To the extent Michigan ran offense in those days, it was largely non-sensical, bigs with absolutely no perimeter game would handle the ball frequently outside the arc throughout entire games without any semblance of what, ya know, they were DOING THERE. The team often passed the ball around the perimeter for 38 seconds while gaining absolutely no advantage in any tactical sense.
In 1994, Michigan blew the Big Ten championship with an 8 point lead with 90 seconds to play in a game with a 45 second shot clock because they had literally no idea what they hell they were doing in crunch time. Additionally, teams with absolutely no business being in games with the 93 team (Rice, Illinois, George Washington, Temple etc.) frequently hung around to a large degree because of utter disorganization on the floor. Michigan lost 2, if not 3, games to Duke specifically because of coaching. They had no business losing to Carolina in the title game, they had much more talent on the floor.
The team played a masterpiece against Kentucky but it wasn't because of high level coaching, they were all just really good basketball players who coalesced really well. I think Fisher drastically improved as a coach later in his career and I always liked him as a person, but he had very little clue what he was doing with the Fab Five.
I dont disagree with your take on Fisher which is why he wasnt on my coaches list.
FWIW I think Frieder doesnt get nearly enough respect for what he accomplished here, largely because of three things:
1. The way he left and the timing of his departure
2. His lack of success in the tournament
3. His best teams liked cocaine more than they liked winning basketball games
If coke wasnt a "thing" back in the 80's I seriously wonder how his 85-89 teams would've fared come tournament time.
Frieder was Dicky V's and the recruiting section of Street and Smith's wet dream. The guy brought in a ton of talent and really had our program rocking. So many good players but coaching on the big stage was "meh".
Fisher did let them play for better "89 gunslingers" or worse "Freshman/Sophomore phenoms in key moments".
OK. I think this is a fair take on Fisher. I guess my stance is that JB's approach to these players would be so out of whack that it would a much bigger calamity compared to Fisher. For example, JB could never recruit a Chris Webber even if he tried, despite Webber being in our backyard. JB has never shown he could handle a lot super star players very well, let alone 1 star player.
I don't know. Burke was a superstar. Stauskus was a superstar, or if not, very close to being one. Both GR3 and McGary were very high level recruits and he did not clash with those players, not publicly at least. He struggled with Poole but it did not appear to me that Poole was very coachable.
You are right, he could not have recruited a Chris Webber but I don't really think he would have wanted to. Clogging up the lane was virtually a criminal offense in Beilein's system. I'm not sure Beilein would have had much interest in any of the Fab Five, not because he necessarily would have been incapable of coaching them but because they would have been fish out of water.
He could have used Pelinka. Fife would have probably worked. Howard could stretch a team somewhat so Beilein could have worked with that. Ray Jackson was kind of a poor mans GR3 so Beilein may have got some yardage out of that but Jackson was also a pretty sloppy player and that would driven JB crazy.
Long story short, Beilein wouldn't have wanted to coach the Fab Five, but I don't think it has to do with them being "superstars."
I don't know either. I just look at what happened in Cleveland which was essentially a team full of super star college kids. JB couldn't make it a half season before being fired and called a racist.
Also, Burke wasn't a superstar when he was recruited. He was a Penn State commit when we started to recruit him. Also, it was well documented that JB and Burke did not get along well. We all witnessed the drama after Burke's freshman year.
I actually did not know that about Beilein and Burke. I just thought Burke really wanted to leave for the NBA but kind of realized he wasn't ready for it yet, to his dismay. They seemed fine in 2013 to me. Not saying you're wrong, I just did not realize that.
I don't think that was the biggest issue really. JB did a great job developing up Burke, but in this day, Burke would have transferred immediately after his freshman year for a big NIL deal at a different school.
I definitely agree there.
Rob Pelinka and James Voskuil would have absolutely thrived under Beilein.
Going big with
Howard
Webber
Rice
Russell
Rose
Bench would be more so my favorites
Graham Brown
Pettway
Louis Bullock
Crawford
Blanchard
and
Novak
PETTWAY!!!!!!!!
One of my personal favorites too. Urban legend has it he was able to jump high enough to grab a quarter off the top of the backboard. I dont know if that's true or not but damn could that man sky.
Thanks for reminding me of him.
Some of his warmup dunks were absolutely ridiculous. It looked fake, like NBA Jam.
That was Flint's own Joel Thompson I believe. Nicknamed "change" and also "Windex" for cleaning the glass.
Air Georgia
I’m surprised at how many posters are omitting Rudy Tomjanovich. He averaged 25 points and 14 rebounds a game and, I believe, was the second pick in the NBA draft (after, the in the current news, Pistol Pete Maravich). His numbers might have been even better if there were three-point shots, not to mention freshman eligibility. Michigan sucked when he was here (heck 6-1 Bird Carter was essentially the center for a while), but he single-handed made Michigan worth watching for three years.
Also appreciate the original poster’s mention of Henry Wilmore. He averaged 23 points as a 6-3 Sophomore forward. He was a tweener, who was great as a forward but height challenged, but not a great ball handler as a guard.
It might be because he played like 60 years ago and only MGrowOld saw him play and even he barely remembers.
You arent far off on that one. I have no memory watching Cazzie or Buntin play but I do remember Rudy. Doesnt change the fact though that he was one of our greatest basketball players ever though.
Recency bias is tough. Charles Woodson left here in 97 meaning anybody on the board younger than about 30-35 probably has no memory of actually seeing him play, they've only seen highlights. Even worse with arguably one of our two best basketball players ever in Glenn Rice. Anybody under 45-50 cant say they remember watching him live.
That's what makes these fun though. People remember what they saw and grade accordingly
I typically only engage conversations like "best Michigan players/teams" with players I have seen play, either live in their time or close enough to really judge. I am 44. My all time Michigan team would be:
Burke-Rose-Rice-Wagner-Webber. My bench would be Grant-Stauskus-Vought-GR3-Howard. My garbage time/mop up duty players would be Derrick Walton Jr. and Franz Wagner. My team manager would be MAAR.
The team mascot and pot dealer would be McGary. JB would be the coach.
For coaches I'd put Steve Fisher ahead of Frieder
Rose, Stauskas, Glenn Rice, Webber, McGary
Burke, GR3, THjr, RRobinson, RudyT
If I get a roster Crussel, Jamal Crawford
If I get unrealistic, he doesn't jump to the nba and comes to MIchigan Tracy McGrady at sf!!!
Good stuff, and I can't help but pretty much agree with you across the board, but ... man I loved me some Rickey Green, so I'd put him above both Jalen and definitely Nik, as much as I like them both.
You have to put Tarpley in. Move Hubbard to Forward and put Tarpley in as second team Center.
Starters;
Rice
Webber
Tomjanovich
Cazzie
Burke
Second team:
Hubbard
Grant
Ricky Green
Campy Russell
Mike McGee
Players I’ve seen play.
This gives me size, scoring at all 5 spots
C Mitch McGary
PF. Chris Webber
SF Glen Rice
SG Duncan Robinson
PG. Jalen Rose.
Chris Webber Roy Tarpley Rickey Green Rudy T and the best Glen Rice.
I can't argue with your first team selections but even though he was the National Player of the Year Trey Burke wouldn't make the second team cut for me. Ricky Green, Jalen Rose and possibly even Louis Bullock would be my options for the second team.
Fun stuff!
Trey Burk was college player of the year, and Ricky Green was a 1st team All-American. So they are my 1st and 2nd unit point guards with Gary Grant moving to the 2nd unit SG (he's 6'3" he can handle it).
Magee goes to the reserves; Jalen goes to just missed the cut.
Howard
Webber
Rice
Franz
Burke
What a great post! Can’t argue with Gary Grant/Jalen Rose/Trey Burke/Chris Webber/Juwan Howard/Rudy T at any of their respective positions but, the first five that come to mind for my starting five are PG Rickey Green, SG Cazzie Russell, SF Glen Rice (Rice and Russell are the only non-negotiables IMO), PF I guess Chris Webber, and C Roy Tarpley (people forget or are too young to realize how dominant he was). Either Rose, Webber or Howard needs to be included. I think Jalen is probably most deserving but I have a hard time leaving Rickey Green out.
After all these years, truly, how difficult is it to actually spell Chris Webber's name correctly?
Webber. Not Weber.
Very, very difficult it would seem.
For me anyways.
C: Webber
PF: Juwan
SF: Rice
SG: Stauskas
PG: Rose
PG1: Trey Burke
SG1: Cazzie Russell
SF1: Glen Rice
PF1: Chris Webber
C1: Moritz Wagner
PG2: Zavier Simpson
SG2: Nik Stauskas
SF2: Tim Hardaway Jr.
PF2: Jordan Morgan
C2: Jon Teske
PG3: Jamal Crawford
SG3: Duncan Robinson
SF3: Glenn Robinson III
PF3: Zach Novak
C3: Juwan Howard
Coach: John Beilein
Probably some age bias here, as I don’t know the pre-90s teams that well, but:
C - Mo Wagner
PF - Webber
SF - Rice
SG - Cazzie
PG - Burke
BENCH
Juwan
Rudy T
Franz
Jalen
Hardaway Jr
Stauskus
LaVell Blanchard (I realize this is an off script pick, but he was the best player of the roughest era of Michigan hoops so he deserves the flowers, also he’s a personal family friend so couldn’t exclude)
I'm actually Rumeal,why am I not on this list??? And where's Mo Taylor? RAAAAAWR!