Brian's 26 tix thoughts...
With Jabrill off to the pros (thanks for the effort Jabrill), I'm especially eager to see the post bowl edition of Brian's 26 (27?) tickets. Two thoughts I have.... 1) Speight is a ways down the list. I have to believe the qb competition will be wide open next year. 2) where does Ian Bunting land? Does he really have a position?
January 11th, 2017 at 12:52 AM ^
Many people on site, for reasons I cannot understand are expressing concerns that somehow Wilton has won the job for the 2017 season. While almost all of our past qbs - playing under a competent staff - have improved yearly, with the most significant gains being made between year one and year two. All that does is give him the inside track due to the experience factor. I don't know what makes you think that Harbaugh has discounted the possibility of Peters or O'korn being capable of unseating him from the no. 1 spot. It simply is not how the man works.
He has proven, on a weekly basis actually, he will not hesitate to give extended playing time to those that earn it. His prima ry motivational tool is the promise of being rewarded for increased effort that translates into enhanced performance. You witnessed Wilton's abbreviated playing time backing up Jake in 2015. You also witnessed the strides he made by following the plan Harbaugh laid out for him to the point he was able to win the starting job over a player who was voted Offensive Freshman of the Year in another conference.
We saw nothing from Peters due, obviously, to the Red Shirt season, but it should be obvious he laid out a similar plan for him, one he worked on daily in practice under the watchful eye of Harbaugh to ensure any breakdowns in fundamentals were corrected immediately and not allowed to become a habit. The difference in rankings between the two, coupled with the fact that Harbaugh is the one who made the decision to extend the offer to Peters suggests he possesses more natural talent than did Wilton at that point in their respective careers.
He, along with John, will be afforded every opportunity to earn that position and for one reason and one reason only; to do otherwise would make absolutely no sense. No matter who emerges as the starter, we will have a better qb than we had last season. As I mentioned in another post, and I've only seen it once at Michigan that I can recall. Scott Dreisbach was the starting qb in 1996. The following fall camp Brian Griese emerged as the starter and, of course, led us to an undefeated season and national championship. Interestingly, in addition to Griese and Scott fighting for the job, another fellow named Tom Brady was the third qb fighting for that spot. And Carr was nowhere near the evaluator of that position as is Harbaugh.
January 11th, 2017 at 12:21 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 3:59 PM ^
That crowd was convinced JOK was The Truth all season, then he comes in for Indiana and now everyone has moved on to Brandon Peters as The New Truth. News flash everyone. Harbaugh isn't trying to sabotage the team by playing his 2nd or 3rd best QB on Saturdays. Wilton Speight is the best QB on the team and I don't expect that to change this coming fall either
January 10th, 2017 at 11:05 PM ^
The Red Wings never had the right goalie in net for years. It got old and rediculous after a while. The other goalies the Wings played against seem to stand on their heads to beat the Wings. But they had to or they would get pummeled by the Wings.
I will say that Wilton needed to take better care of the ball against OSU. But I won't sit here and say that Peters would not do the same thing. We will see who QB's this team next year and if Jimmy says it's Wilton or Santa Clause he has my total confidence in putting the right guy out there.
I wonder if these are the same people who wanted O'Korn to start the season and were upset he didn't until you saw him play the Indiana game, which by the way was at the end of the year and O'Korn I would have thought, would be much better than he showed. He had one scramble that highlighted his night, then Deveon took over.
January 10th, 2017 at 4:09 PM ^
Speight hate. Be honest in big games he was far from stellar, where a few more plays from him and we probably finish 12-0 in the regular season. He has grown a lot and done some very good things, but it's also a big possibility he's reached his ceiling.
A guy like Peters was a Harbaugh recruit, who he wanted bad for a reason. He's been in the program for a year being tutored by Harbaugh. He was also rated a lot higher then Speight was coming out of high school. It's not out of the question to think there could be a very competitive QB battle next year and that Peters even comes out on top. I do know, but whoever wins the QB battle will have earned it and UM will be better for it.
Just because Speight won the battle to start this year does not mean his name should be written in ink on the depth chart this year and don't understand why people get so upset when someone suggests this. It's just as crazy as people saying Peters will definitely start next year. It's a long ways off. Although when I look at this past years QB battle Speight coming out on top over Morris and O'Korn now doesn't look as impressive. Let's see what happens with Peters being a legit threat to win the job and even McCaffery thrown into the mix. I expect a heated competiton and it should bring out the best in everyone.
January 10th, 2017 at 4:24 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 4:44 PM ^
That could be said about a lot of players on Michigan's team this past year - if they would have made a few more plays, UM might have been 12-0.
January 10th, 2017 at 4:11 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 4:20 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 4:23 PM ^
My favorite QB is the one that came out of HS ranked 50 spots higher thn Sam Darnold!
Nuff said
January 10th, 2017 at 4:26 PM ^
Look dude, the fact the Speight is a established top 1/3 of the B10 starter means what exactly? Speights play this year was pretty bad if you consider what he had around him in coaching and talent, along with the competition he played against. Speight did not play well in against any good team except PSU who was missing all 3 linebackers that game. Co, Wisc, Iowa, OSU, and FSU were games where he played bad and average qb play probably has us undefeated. Most of the season his qbr ranking was in the 60's. He might get better but I doubt it.
January 10th, 2017 at 4:58 PM ^
What exactly did Speight have around him in talent?
Not knocking the players around him on offense, but other than Butt it was an average offense. The 2016 oline isn't even close to being in the conversation for one of the better olines in the post-Bo era. Same with the 2016 wide receivers and running backs.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:02 AM ^
that despite the atrocious play you describe as the norm in at least six contests, IA was the only game in which his completion pct was horribly low. He routinely hit at about a 63% completion rate, which is more than sufficient in most cases. And in that IA game, one of the three games we lost by a total of 5 points, he delivered the pass that gave us the 4 extra downs we needed to run out the clock. However, the receiver failed to secure it firmly and as easy as it is to lift a feather, the db simply reached in and grabbed the ball. It wasn't all Wilton, not at all.
January 10th, 2017 at 4:29 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 3:17 PM ^
Bunting is the "flex" (tight end who can split off the line). The only reason he played so little this year is because Butt never came off the field. When Butt got injured, Bunting finally saw meaningful snaps. . .Have to imagine Metellus will be listed as the SAM.
It's 27 tickets, though only 26 of the players listed in the last one will actually be on the Michigan team next year.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:16 PM ^
I think the issues we saw with Speight against OSU and FSU were injury related, not regression or hitting his ceiling. Unless he's still hurt and doesn't heal by fall camp I don't see him not being the starter. VERY hard to unseat an incumbent QB. Peters may be the future but he has ZERO playing experience in college.
I just don't see anyone other than Speight at QB next year, barring injury of course.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:19 PM ^
They were also pretty heavily offensive line related. A lot of his bad throws were rushed because there was someone in his face. And while Speight is likely to take a step forward next season, I'm not so sure about the OL.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:28 PM ^
I thought Griese overrated that in the broadcast. On more plays than not, the OL was beat and made it a challenge for him. But there were numerous plays where he had a solid pocket and flat out made bad throws too.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:23 PM ^
Harbaugh seems to value protecting the ball as well. Another reason Speight probably has a better chance than much of this website seems to believe to return as a starter. Putting a 1st time starter behind THIS offensive line is asking for potential shell shock. Esp without some cupcake to open the year. Peters is going to have to put on a show in practice to win the job - Harbaugh wants to win now, not go through growing pains.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:27 PM ^
After watching his offense for two years, I feel like he almost does that to a fault. We saw them try to go deep repeatedly against Utah in the first game last year, and then they shut that shit down until late in the season. Even this year, I don't recall too many deep shots. Like, I get not wanting to turn the ball over, but it seems like you should still take some shots downfield given the targets they had at WR/TE.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:33 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 4:12 PM ^
that can hit the deep route. Not sure how many times Speight either over threw or under threw a wide open WR downfield, but it was a lot more then any coach will feel comfortable seeing a basically wasting a down with that play.
January 10th, 2017 at 8:11 PM ^
Also true. Guess if you can't block long enough for a downfield pass and don't have a QB who is very accurate/good at it, those are two very good reasons for not doing it outside of games against Rutgers/Maryland/etc.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:33 PM ^
Rudock couldn't hit anything deep until the Rutgers game. He went from incapable to lights out in that department overnight and they threw it deep quite a bit after that.
I mean, did you see the Iowa game this year? Deep shot after deep shot, knowing they probably just needed to connect on one to win. And we couldn't. No deep stuff against OSU and very little against FSU because Speight's shoulder wasn't up to it.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:33 PM ^
think they did, Speight just overthrew basically every one of them. They did not do so against OSU because Speight's shoulder was mush and they had only DEATH to replace him. They went deep all day against Iowa and Wisconsin but he could not hit them, with the one exception to Darboh.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:38 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 3:59 PM ^
He wasn't a dead-on deep ball thrower, but he wasn't hopeless, either--that dime to Darboh won the Wisconsin game, and he threw a dime to Chesson for a TD against Rutgers, among other deep plays.
I want him to get more consistent with his deep ball, especially with how the offense can key off of that.
But you mention the receivers, which... were a part of the problem. Jehu Chesson was seldom open, and never by much. Anyone who watched the game last night saw Mike Williams catch balls that were thrown in his general direction that he was able to make plays on; Darboh was only ok at this (and sometimes messed up badly) and Chesson was terrible in this area.
January 10th, 2017 at 5:00 PM ^
Watching some of these bowl games (the game last night, Rose Bowl, etc) and seeing wide receivers go make plays on balls that weren't perfectly thrown made me realize how little we saw Chesson and Darboh do it.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:30 AM ^
that knocked him for a loop. I think it cost him some speed. Seemed like Chesson was Rudock's favorite target, then we rarely saw Chesson ever again and it was Darboh all year.
Darboh sometimes frustrates, making circus catches and then clanging some easy ones. But he definitely is a matchup problem for most D1 cornerbacks, size-wise.
I'm looking forward to Crawford getting some more playing time and to see what DPJ can do on the outside. Like to see McDoom in the slot now (guessing Perry is a goner)
Whoever is the QB has gotta practice those slants until they can do it in their sleep, outs, fly routes....allofdem!
January 10th, 2017 at 3:33 PM ^
I agree the deep ball did seem weirdly absent this year, but I attributed it to Chesson being dinged up, not turnover aversion.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:27 PM ^
"Much of this site"? I'd bet at least 80% of this board gives him a greater than 60% chance to be the starter next year. And that's coming from me, who is in the 100th percentile of thinking people on this board are dumb.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:20 PM ^
His worst game was against Iowa and health wasn't a factor that night until his second to last snap. It's obvious he was limited against OSU. Doubt he was 100% for FSU but it's impossible to say how much of a factor injury was there. Basically, Speight's a tough guy to figure out right now. Showed enough to believe he could grow into something very good but had enough poor moments to wonder if he's not up to being the guy.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:28 PM ^
thing that is starting to puzzle me. Why does it seem so much of a reach for one of our freshman QBs, red shirt or otherwise, to play and play wel?. USC started a red-shirt freshman QB this year and won the Rose Bowl. Alabama played a true freshman and went to the NCG. I am pretty sure that Peters was close to both as a prospect at the college level. It seems like such a stretch for one of our freshman QBS to be the guy, right away, but it doesn't seem like that for a lot of teams. I don't quite get that.
January 10th, 2017 at 4:03 PM ^
A redshirt freshman COULD be really good and earn the job. But it's not all that likely. Less likely given the complexity of Harbaugh's offense and the reduced contribution he asks from his QBs on the ground.
Speight was only a redshirt sophomore, after all. And while he has had accuracy issues, he has not been a turnover machine. And he knows the offense really well. I expect him to be noticeably better next season; Peters would have to be shockingly outstanding to be clearly better. And, yes, guys like Darnold do emerge like that, but most guys do not.
January 10th, 2017 at 4:15 PM ^
and I don't understand why this board gets so upset when someone mentions the possibility, like they hate Speight. For all we know Peters is the next Tom Brady. I say let them compete and whoever wins will be our best option and it is possible Peters is our best man.
January 10th, 2017 at 9:04 PM ^
and I don't understand why this board gets so upset when someone mentions the possibility, like they hate Speight. For all we know Peters is the next Tom Brady. I say let them compete and whoever wins will be our best option and it is possible Peters is our best man."
Reading the above, it is obvious this poster, and apparently many more that have contributed to this thread, do not realize this is exactly what happens, not only on an annual basis, but competition is constant and is one of Harbaugh's trademarks. Believe me, Peters, Speight and O'korn will all be battling for the starting spot next season. I cannot believe that as much as Jim preaches the value of open and continuous competition that people think just because Wilton was our starter this season he is entitled to that role next year.
As long as Harbaugh remains as HC at UM rest assured he is going to be sending the best 11 out on the field each and every Saturday. It may very well not be the same 11 you chose. But somehow, I trust his judgment more than I do yours.
January 11th, 2017 at 12:30 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 5:04 PM ^
Alabama has a devasting running game to help their QB out (not to mention a defense that scored a ton of points). Hurts wasn't exactly setting the world on fire at the end of the year. His last 3 games were:
Florida: 11/20, 138 yds, 1 TD, 0 int
Washington: 7/14, 57 yds, 0 TD, 0 int
Clemson: 13/31, 131 yds, 1 TD, 0 int
January 10th, 2017 at 5:26 PM ^
and actually I have seen it at Michigan, twice. Both Ricky Leach - minimal passing w/that offense, heavy option attack - and Chad Henne grabbed the starting jobs as true freshmen. But it is interesting that you listed both Darnold, USC and Hurts, Ala, as your examples. Much like those two teams are now, basically the only questions as to starters was the qb position. Like AL and USC, UM was absolutely loaded with their usual "soon to be NFL offensive line," fine tailbacks in Ricky's case and in Chad's case, one of the best collections of skill players Lloyd ever pulled to AA playing at that time. We had a LT who would be the No. 1 pick in the draft. We had the school's all time leading rusher behind him, Manningham and Arrington at the wr position, so we're not exactly comparing apples to apples.
Personally, I think Speight had a decent season for a first year starter, but I won't even suggest that it could not have been better. This is just my opinion but I thought Butt played at about the same level he did in '15 - very good - but I thought there was regression on the part of Chesson and Darboh. I am not certain, but I think Jehu's might have been injury related, but it was obvious both had problems gaining separation for some reason.
Wilton will improve, and probably significantly, from year one to year two. That does not preclude Peters or O'korn from having a legitimate shot at the job though. Harbaugh uses the word meritocracy often and it's because he believes in it. I believe, due to experience, familiarity with the offense and the improvement I expect, Wilton will more-than-likely win the no. 1 job again next season. Given the fact there are only two names listed above, spanning a period of 47 years, the odds are obviously slim that Peters will be our starting qb when next season kicks off, but there are certain players that, even as RS freshman, are just so damn good, it's impossible not to start them.
And don't forget 1997. There was a hell of a qb competition that ended in Griese supplanting Dreisbach, the prior year's starter. Also in that competition was Tom Brady.
I have my suspicions, stated above as to who I think it the most likely starter but if he is he'll have to earn it just like he did this season. The only guarantee I can make is that our qb play will be an improvement from this season.
January 10th, 2017 at 5:44 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 7:13 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 3:39 PM ^
gets more experience playing than ROK did this year. Especially if it's one of the younger guys, I'm sure that would benefit them in the long run, or the short run if god forbid SP8 gets hurt.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:45 PM ^
'17 Speight = RS Junior with a year under his belt. Does '17's offensive weapons and line allow him to have an declare-for-draft type season? He does at least have Big Ben/Flacco dimensions and would be intriguing.
'18 Speight = RS Senior who wasn't spectactular enough to declare early but brings a load of experience to a now-pretty-damn-good roster that will lose very few seniors.
or that more seasoned, talented '18 roster gets a first-time starter in Peters.
'19 Peters = RS Junior who either has a year under his belt or is at least some quality snaps from '17 and '18 under his belt.
'20 Peters = RS Senior or does he also declare after 1 or 2(?) seasons as a starter? This is where Speight will be interesting to watch next year.
or McCaffrey if Peters is gone?
'21 McCaffrey = RS Senior. So, depending on Speight's development vs. Peters, McCaffrey may never have the option of being an early-entry NFL draftee, he may not even start until his senior season.
Best case scenario...
'17 Speight, kicks ass, goes early
'18 Peters (but an experienced Speight might be better with a solid roster and OSU on the road again)
'19 Peters kicks ass, goes early
'20 and '21 McCaffrey
Worst/weird case
'17 and '18 Speight
'19 and '20 Peters
'21 McCaffrey
January 10th, 2017 at 3:16 PM ^
Why would Speight move way down?
January 10th, 2017 at 3:26 PM ^
I think he's referring to Speight being #7 on the pre-bowl list, not #1 or #2.
January 10th, 2017 at 3:37 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 3:51 PM ^
Sure, but this said way down post bowl specifically. I don't think much changed
January 10th, 2017 at 4:13 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 3:51 PM ^
January 10th, 2017 at 3:16 PM ^
A whole year under Harbaugh's wing can't hurt. Hoping that the QB competition produces not only competition but gives us a stud QB we can rely on more next season.
GO BLUE!!