Ball-Tracking Tech for Football

Submitted by Gentleman Squirrels on

I don't want to rehash any discussion regarding the spot, but I was wondering if it was possible to track the football as they do in soccer, hockey, or tennis. I came across this article that talked about tracking the football, which is particularly helpful in bad weather conditions or in situations like the spot. 

I'm all for it but I wanted to put this out for discussion and if anyone could think of any reason why this would be a bad idea.

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hockeyc

December 2nd, 2016 at 1:36 PM ^

The tough part I think is relating the position of the ball when the player is down. We can know where the ball is at any given time, but that's not particularly important in football.

Another source of error is the chain positions, but i suppose you could come up with some alternate way of marking that.

Now, if you could relate say a camera frame to the ball position, that might be useful on review. The referee picks the frame where the player was down, and ball tracking tells them exactly where it was at that time.

Joined: 03/20/2011

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UM Fan in Nashville

December 2nd, 2016 at 2:40 PM ^

I've never understood why replay officials don't use different camera angles with the timestamp of each angle.   You can nearly get a full 360 view of what's going on by freezing each camera angle at the same critical time.  The video is captured digitally to fractions of a second.  


I here the announcers always say "well, this camera angle has a good view for a second, but you lose view when you continue the footage. This other angle shows a little more."  I scream at the TV to do a 2 or 3 or 4 screen freeze to show all angles at the same time!  

 

This could be used with the same technology mentioned.  Sync the tech in the football with the video footage, find the frame where it is conclusive the player is down, document the timestamp, sync the info, you have your perfect spot.   

 

My FIL and I were discussing before the 'critical spot' how ironic it is that football spots with next to no regard to detail on every down except those that ended very close to the first down marker or touchdown.  Why judge on milimeters for those critical spots, but use such a 'willy nilly' process for all the other downs?

 

 

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Chiwolve

December 2nd, 2016 at 1:41 PM ^

Favorite line in the article:

 In those cases, engineers used transmitters that produce high-frequency waves, which are easily absorbed by the human body—not exactly the best way to get a signal from underneath six linebackers.

Not sure what game they are watching, but they know how to capture Coach Brown's attention!

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Stay.Classy.An…

December 2nd, 2016 at 1:49 PM ^

something that can make one of the toughest parts of the game alot simpler, why shouldn't it be done? Quite honestly, humans are prone to messing things up. If this technology can essentially remove human error, bias, and judgement from the equation, MAKE IT HAPPEN! Whatever gives the refs one less thing to worry about.

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Artie

December 2nd, 2016 at 1:51 PM ^

Only if it comes with FoxTrak or whatever it was so we can see a blue/red streak follow the ball whenever it's thrown and a blue glow come from it wherever it goes.



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Two Hearted Ale

December 2nd, 2016 at 1:54 PM ^

Ball tracking is pretty simple. You need three cameras with a known precise location with a view of the ball. It makes sense in tennis because the ball is always visible. The problem with using the technology in football is situations where it is needed rarely have good views of the ball. An alternate tracking method is transponders embedded in the ball NASCAR style. I don't know what transponder locating technology looks like so can't comment on it's feasibility.

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bo_lives

December 2nd, 2016 at 5:24 PM ^

and it's transmitting a signal to satellites thousands of miles away. Surely some electrical engineer out there can design a transponder that would be able to send signals to 3 designated relay stations that can then triangulate the transponder's exact position relative to the field. Regardless of whether or not the player is being tackled by 3, 6, 11, or 21 linebackers.

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bringthewood

December 2nd, 2016 at 3:03 PM ^

I think it is doable with sensors. The NFL has used a basic sensor in footballs in preseason games for speed, etc..

Not sure if they have the ability to measure in inches. There are a crapload of different kinds of sensors - ultrasound, infared, GPS. It won't be foolproof but why sports has not adopred them in a big way is beyone me. They have GPS chips in golf balls now. I'm guessing if you do not use satellites but something within the stadium itself you could triangulate down to inches.

I'm not an engineer but know a bit about sensors.

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BradyCarrbaugh

December 2nd, 2016 at 2:32 PM ^

Waste of money. We can already pinpoint the precise location of the ball using cameras mounted above, behind and to the side of the field. Along with initial gut reaction of our teams coach on the opposite side of the field, we attain precision once limited to fields like microbiology... Or so I've read.

Joined: 11/29/2016

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kvnryn

December 2nd, 2016 at 2:45 PM ^

This doesn't necessarily solve the problem of determinig the exact position of the ball when the runner is ruled down, but kind of a tangential thought I had as a result of last weekend.

Why don't the referees always spot the ball at the nearest yard marker after a first down? That way, the line to gain is always precisely known.

For example, the ball is spotted at exactly the 25 in overtime (the edge of the line closet to midfield), so we know the line to gain is exactly the side of the 15 closest to midfield. So why not, after a first down at the opponent's 47.233458 yard line, move the ball back  to exactly the 47, so the line to gain is exactly the 37. What difference does the .233458 yards make? That spot is mostly a guess on the linesman's part anyways, right? This would at least eliminate the need for chains, no?

Obviously there are edge cases near the goal line where this wouldn't apply.

I can't be the first person to think this and I'm sure I haven't thought it through enough. Tell me why I am wrong.

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Moonlight Graham

December 2nd, 2016 at 3:20 PM ^

I addition to the ball sensor, what if there was a force field projected across the field between the sticks, then every player wears sensors on their knees, elbows and rear ends. If a player is detected to be in possesion of the ball through a series of additional sensors throughout their uniform, AND one of their "DOWN" sensors indicates they've been tackled, the computer video neural-net array pinpoints the location of the ball at that instant and cross-extrapolates it with the force beam laser, and beams a spotlight onto the field upon which the ref should place the ball. 

Even with this, the refs Saturday would have placed the ball just an inch too far forward on the laser beam and called first down. Millions of $$ wasted. UM still loses. 

Go Buffs. 

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lilpenny1316

December 2nd, 2016 at 3:29 PM ^

...shenanigans are still going to happen.  When those guys come out to measure for first downs, I'm highly skeptical that they're able to walk in a perfect straight line from the sideline to the ball and then back to the sideline.  It seems we should be able to phase those guys out.  I'm sure the same technology used to zap your dog when it tries to leave the yard can be utilized for a football game.

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BradyCarrbaugh

December 2nd, 2016 at 3:59 PM ^

They don't walk in straight line. A tag is clipped on the chain that aligns with a 5 yard line that falls between the sticks. When they stagger out, the tag is laid on the line and held in place everything in front of the tag is pulled tight. This done so that when all the cheaters blow up the chain gang while making late hits on UM ball carriers out of bounds, they can reset chains to original position. You knew that.

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Ecky Pting

December 2nd, 2016 at 5:00 PM ^

Put two passive transponders - magnetics, or possibly RFID (like the ones used to track that new football as your knucklehead buddy tells you to go long out the front of the store) - each with a unique signature, at the opposite points of the ball. Then embed a sensor array in the fabric of the playing surface which will track the location of the transponders, in 3 dimensions, at all times. The two sensors are used to determine the orientation of the ball, and from that, the transverse plane of the leading edge of the ball. The transverse plane and lateral position will be tracked with timestamps in order to synch with video footage, from which the time a player is down would be determined. Based on that determination, a laser targeting spot attached to the overhead camera draws an outline of the ball onto the playing surface (just like during that Pink Floyd show you and your knucklehead buddy went to) to locate the ball for the next down...

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CoverZero

December 2nd, 2016 at 5:13 PM ^

I came across this Forbes article (link below) today while researching the shitty officiating crew and the nortorious Dan Capron.  Ive been saying this same thing here for years.  The technology exists.... do it! Track the football

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogergroves/2016/11/27/the-technology-that-…

Just track it.

"But it tastes like Mango, Chutney and Burnt Hair"

I dont care.  Track it!

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BigBirdBlue

December 2nd, 2016 at 5:26 PM ^

If they could make the cameras 'know' where the line to gain is and then as the play progresses, the hanging camera swings around to the side view of that 1st down line instead of following the play from behind. That's more technologically advanced than I am, but it seems reasonable.

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