B1G Crossover Scheduling
Given the random, uh, inconsistencies over the past forever years, I've been thinking about how it would be possible to "fix" the issue. But a 14-team conference makes schedule parity all-but-impossible.
Instead, wouldn't a simpler solution be a form of standings parity? Like, what if Division winners were determined only by a team's record within their division? What's the downside?
September 21st, 2020 at 9:26 AM ^
It can barely call itself a conference if kids' first memories of seeing a team, say at age 4 or 5, don't get repeated till they enroll at UM themselves.
September 21st, 2020 at 10:40 AM ^
I think you were using 14 as an exaggeration to make a point, but it's nearly the actual amount, which is 12 years (2011 to 2023). Obviously the pandemic messed things up but even without it there would've been a nine-year gap (2011 to 2020) that saw Purdue not visit Ann Arbor.
September 21st, 2020 at 9:24 AM ^
there is no universe that OSU skipping out on the 3 best teams in the West (2 of which are perennial favorites i.e. predictable) isnt obviously unfair and in need of altering.
you don't need a better algorithm or dynamic scheduling to fix this...you just need common sense and some backbone.
September 21st, 2020 at 3:51 PM ^
Common sense would dictate that a player who enrolls at UM would have, over the course of a 4-5 year career (even 3) an opportunity to see every team in the conference, on the schedule. Problem is common sense will always be beaten by money. The only reason the conference exists, as currently constituted is money. The irony is that it waters down the two sports which make the most money; football and basketball. The other sports can fairly easily adapt to more or fewer teams.
September 21st, 2020 at 7:03 PM ^
"Promote" Ohio State to the SEC. "Relegate" Vanderbilt to the B1G. Problem Solved.
September 21st, 2020 at 9:29 AM ^
I am personally in favor of all conferences shrinking to ten teams (sorry PSU, Rutgers, Maryland, Nebraska) and playing every team in the conference. You could eliminate the need of conference championship games. This would allow more time to expand the playoffs. This will never happen however.
September 21st, 2020 at 9:34 AM ^
I think it might happen sooner than you think. Nebraska seems pissed off and I feel like Maryland and Rutgers will eventually realize they can't compete in this conference, at least not in football.
PSU can stay I guess, but I wish they'd fuck off.
September 21st, 2020 at 10:20 AM ^
Replace Nebraska with Missouri or Pitt.
September 21st, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
Missouri and Arkansas can go to the Big XII and West Virginia and Pitt can go back and form a new Big East. Hell Penn State can go with them.
We had it nearly perfect in 2007...and we fucked it all up.
September 21st, 2020 at 11:53 AM ^
Maryland and Rutgers are here for the money. As long as that continues, they'll never leave. Thanks Delaney
September 21st, 2020 at 12:04 PM ^
I get the checks are huge from tv, but if you have nobody coming to your games because you win 3 games a year that doesn't really work long term.
September 21st, 2020 at 12:05 PM ^
PSU can stay I guess, but I wish they'd fuck off.
JoePa knew.
September 21st, 2020 at 5:31 PM ^
and did nothing.
September 21st, 2020 at 9:36 AM ^
Every other conference with more than ten teams manages to play crossover games that count. Change that rule and the chances that the whiners will whine about something else is 100%.
If you want to change the system, going to one with fewer meaningful games is going backwards.
September 21st, 2020 at 9:38 AM ^
The basic flaw in all attempts to try to achieve "fairness" or "parity" or "consistency" is that no one in charge of college football gives a rat's ass about any of these things. The only thing the NCAA or the BIG10 care about is maximizing revenue. It is the same as thinking Mitch McConnell cares about what Joe Biden thinks of him. He doesn't, so preparing ideas for him to demonstrate that he does is a fool's errand.
September 21st, 2020 at 9:53 AM ^
We have played at ND 3x since 2011.
We have played at Nebraska 1x since they joined in 2011.
Something is off.
September 21st, 2020 at 10:11 AM ^
We played Nebraska in 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2018
September 21st, 2020 at 10:24 AM ^
We have played at ND 3x since 2011.
We have played at Nebraska 1x since they joined in 2011.
Something is off.
September 21st, 2020 at 10:32 AM ^
We've also only hosted Purdue once from 2010-2019 and that was in 2011.
September 21st, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
I am dumb.
September 21st, 2020 at 10:40 AM ^
The only way to ensure parity is get rid of divisions, have a rotating schedule, and let the top two winning percentages play in the conference championship. But, the rivalries blah, blah, blah. So, it will never happen. Unfortunately our biggest rivalry is with the best team in the conference plus everyone else on earth so whoa is us.
September 21st, 2020 at 11:08 AM ^
That wouldn't bring parity, just randomness. Every single year that would still give somebody reason to complain.
September 22nd, 2020 at 10:39 AM ^
It would remove the east division teams from having to play OSU/PSU/UM every year and force whomever comes out of the west...typically Wiscy to have to play them as often as everyone else. As a point of comparison Wisconsin is 2-8 vs OSU/PSU/UM (and 0-6 vs OSU/PSU) the last several years, but has won the west division every year. If hypothetically UM & Wiscy changed divisions, UM would have several west division titles and Wiscy would have zero east titles.
It would also ensure the two best records play in the conference championship and give the opportunity for that to be OSU/PSU/UM who have been in the top two most of the last 5 years. That's about as close as you can get to parity and is a big leap from the current model.
September 21st, 2020 at 11:15 AM ^
The problem is the divisions themselves. Get rid of them and the BTCG and go back to each team having two protected rivalries, so that everyone else in the league can rotate on and off the schedule. If two teams share the league title, great. That's how it was before 2011 and we survived just fine.
September 21st, 2020 at 11:49 AM ^
There's no need to get rid of the BTCG. You can still kill the divisions and let the top 2 teams play for the title. If it's a UM-OSU rematch every year (or MSU-Rutgers), so be it.
September 21st, 2020 at 11:50 AM ^
Let's face it the B1G scheduling is not about parity. There are two objectives:
- Maximize TV revenue
- Protect its strongest potential playoff team (OSU)
Giving OSU Nebraska at home and Illinois away is just such a sham in regards to cross-over parity as those are the two weakest teams in the West. Just a joke. Even Urban Meyer said the same thing on TV. I hope it comes back to bite them in the ass relative to SOS and their CFP qualification.
September 21st, 2020 at 12:00 PM ^
The rest of Big Ten just pawn in game of OSU's life, Mongo? ;)
September 21st, 2020 at 12:58 PM ^
Nope. An undefeated OSU team will make the CFP 100% of the time. Schools like Alabama, Clemson, and OSU regardless of SOS will always make the CFP if they are undefeated or 1-loss conference champs.
September 21st, 2020 at 7:19 PM ^
Expanding on my earlier comments, "Promote" Ohio State, Clemson and Oklahoma to the SEC West, and spin them off into their own conference. We can call it the Southern Bagmen Conference. They only get to play each other, and their Conference Champion is automatically the "Mythical National Champion." (Insist on the first word in the title.) Let's see how long they like the sound of one hand clapping when all the rest of CFB refuses to be held to different rules so they can be the SBC's tackling dummies.
Other teams may petition to join the SBC, if they dominate their Conferences in a predefined way, and swear a pledge to "bag" (and otherwise toss all ethical concerns to the side) on the level of the other SBC members. Proof of the net-worth of the alumni network to support a robust "Bagging" culture will be required.
"Relegate" three teams from the former SEC West to the B1G, ACC and Big 12. Let the former SEC East hoover up a few promising programs to get to 12 or so teams. (Oh BTW, force every independent, including and especially Notre Dame, to join a conference.) All the rest of CFB goes back to the old days of Conference Champions with specific Bowl tie ins. Michigan goes back to having a goal of winning the Rose Bowl, and let any other arguments about who is "best" go back to the bar stools where they belong.
September 21st, 2020 at 12:44 PM ^
Kevin Warren is not the commissioner for the entire Big Ten. When it is football season he is the commissioner for OSU. When it is basketball season he is commissioner for Staee. Just like Delany.
September 21st, 2020 at 1:08 PM ^
Pods! Pods! Pods! Pods!
https://www.bannersociety.com/2019/8/15/20734585/college-football-divis…
September 21st, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^
As long as they didn't put Illinois back on ours, we good ;)
September 21st, 2020 at 1:10 PM ^
I agree that it doesn't make sense to use all B1G games to determine the winner of the division since the schedules can be so different. I think we'd get into tie-breakers a lot more if we only used division games, though. I'd like to see the schedules change every year with the goal of giving each team a similar out-of-division experience (one bad team and one good team, or two average teams) as much as possible. Then performance in those games could possibly be used as a tie-breaker in the event two teams have the same divisional record.
September 21st, 2020 at 1:24 PM ^
B1G should drop two teams, and play an 11-game conference schedule plus a rematch week - 1v2, 3v4, 5v6, etc. to name the B1G champion/set the final standings. This makes bowl games interesting again, because it'd be the only time of year that the B1G plays out of conference.
September 21st, 2020 at 1:52 PM ^
I've always been a fan of the floating divisions idea. Crossover games should be less important because the division each year is based on the prior year results. Randomness should even things out.
September 21st, 2020 at 2:05 PM ^
And takeaway the ability for the B1G to manipulate Michigan's schedule?
September 21st, 2020 at 3:00 PM ^
My silly proposal: Break the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry. Michigan swaps with Nebraska for an Original Seven and Added Seven alignment. Brown Jug is the new last game of the season, protected rivalry with Michigan State.
My real proposal is get rid of divisions and have 3- or 4-team pods that play each other and rotate through the other three pods. Michigan-MSU-OSU is a pod. PSU-MD-RU is a pod. WI-IA-IL-NE is a pod. IU-PU-IL-NW is a pod. At the end of the season you play all of the best games that weren't played, determined by the conference, because when you aren't forced into a scenario the correct answer is quite obvious, and after playing those the winner should be obvious too. You get a better champ, you get more football, you get all the rivalry games played, and you get to see the rest of the conference without forcing annual games like Michigan-Maryland.
September 21st, 2020 at 4:09 PM ^
What are your thoughts on Bill C's idea? It seems to solve the issues of keeping rivalries and cycling through the rest of the conference pretty regularly.
https://www.bannersociety.com/2019/8/15/20734585/college-football-divisions-pod-system
September 21st, 2020 at 3:14 PM ^
Hey Sleepy, thanks for linking to my diary. Glad to see that research get brought up in this discussion.
I think what poster ESC25419 has linked to in his comment above with the pods is the best idea for creating schedule parity that I've seen so far. (Edit: and now that I've posted this, what Seth just mentioned in the comment above mine). That means it will probably be adopted and go into effect right before OSU is due to get their six year crossover with Wisconsin wiping out what would be a difficult series for them.
I see a lot of people referencing the divisions as the reason for sos disparities. While that probably is the case on the whole for the conference, it is not so for OSU and Michigan. I just did a quick look at the data, and the schedule disparity between us and OSU was actually worse from '90 to '10 than it has been since the divisions came into play in '11 to the present. UM's opponent SRS was .9 points higher than OSU's from '90-'10 (4.91-4.01) and .5 points higher from '11-present (4.29-3.79). Opponent win % is similar; 3.4% higher from '90-'10 (49.6%-46.2%) and 2.8% higher from '11-present (48.3%-45.5%). It seems like it's one sided luck that has to even out at some point right? Right?
September 21st, 2020 at 6:26 PM ^
Simple solution. Bring back Leaders and Legends. Any takers?
September 21st, 2020 at 7:22 PM ^
Oh great! Let's give Wisconsin another opportunity to back into a B1G Championship Game with a 4-4 Conference record. //s//
September 21st, 2020 at 9:44 PM ^
It's actually pretty simple, especially now when you have preseason rankings.
There's no excuse not to have a more balanced crossover schedule.
September 22nd, 2020 at 12:30 AM ^
How about this?
"What if Division winners were determined only by a team's record within their division? What's the downside?"