Assistant AD and head athletic trainer knew about Anderson. Also Manuel mishandled complaint.
Paul Schmidt apparently knew about it and has been at Michigan since the 80s. Also Warde Manuel supposedly mishandled an accusation and sent it to general counsel's office instead of the Title IX coordinator.
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29093383/michigan-traine…
April 24th, 2020 at 12:43 PM ^
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Ha ha ha baw wah ha ha ha
Says the clown who is all "eff you if you disagree with me... welcome to my troll cave."
April 24th, 2020 at 12:40 PM ^
That’s exactly his fault. The title IX office was created due to conflict of interest with the GC. Warde is either dumb as fuck or he had nefarious intent. in either case, he should get fired.
That's a very, very bad "mistake." The Title IX office exists so that these complaints specifically do not go to the general counsel specifically because of the conflict of interest the general counsel may have to cover it up.
April 24th, 2020 at 12:59 PM ^
Sending it to the GC is a dumb mistake. Another dumb mistake is Warde publicly stating he is taking a 5% pay cut. WTF? Not only is that meaningless it’s only for 6 months so it’s actually a 2.5% paycut which is about $20K. That is what you call a PR cut. He should take a 50% or more pay cut off of what is probably a $200K salary. Given his department will need to lay some folks off he can save some jobs.
Two dumb mistakes and yah, fire him. Save $200K+.
I’d be shocked if he was making anything less than $400k.
i thought i read he makes about $950k but i'm not 100% sure.
No, what's stupid is him taking a paycut at all. UM has a $12B+ endowment and the AD generates hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
The fact that universities such as UM, Harvard, Stanford, etc. are asking employees to take paycuts and/or placing them on furlough is a fucking disgrace. Now, am I shedding tears for Warde Manuel or any other high paid AD or coach? - absolutely not. But whether we are talking about the highest paid university employee or the lowest paid (especially the lowest paid), these institutions have enough money to run for hundreds of years with no new revenue, and yet they can't support employees through a generational crisis? Give me a break
I like when dumb people rant about things they have no knowledge of. You ever been in charge of an endowment? Its not a slush fund and universities could not run for years with no revenue. Income also isn't profit, these organizations have expenses, they aren't creating retirement savings accounts so the athletic department can function for multiple years of no revenue when it wants to retire.
Smart guy - you don't need to be "in charge of an endowment" to understand how they work. UM's endowment is $12.4B. Over the last 2 years, the endowment has distributed $325M ('18) and $363M ('19) to UM operating expenses. Meanwhile, the endowment had a net gain of ~$1B ('18) and ~$500M ('19) over the same time. The endowment has generated a 9.2% annualized return over the last 20 years. I understand that endowments have restrictions on where they can allocate dollars, but clearly UM has been / and will continue to be just fine
My previous example just used Manuel as an example --- albeit a poor one, because the AD is funded separately. As mentioned, if Manuel is / should be fired for his role in this that's fine. (personally, I haven't seen evidence that would cause me to support that). My point remains, that it's entirely disgraceful that institutions such as UM, would be furloughing employees and demanding paycuts at a time like this (and I would lump in Harvard, Stanford and other schools in similar financial positions).
April 24th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^
So obvious course of action: Schmidt needs to be placed on administrative leave pending investigation by...let's say the end of the day to be generous.
I'm of the opinion that Schlissel should do the same to Manuel, but I can understand the case for a lesser punishment here. But he fucked up pretty badly.
April 24th, 2020 at 12:36 PM ^
The idea that Michigan was special and different and above this was always a farce. All large scale institutions value their own in power and the brand over individuals. All of them across all sectors of society. Once it became clear this was hundreds of cases and not just one it was obvious people in the administration ignored it.
April 24th, 2020 at 12:51 PM ^
I guess we are going to have to drop our drawers also!
/too soon???
April 24th, 2020 at 12:54 PM ^
Come on, man. i don’t think you’d be making those jokes if that sick freak did that to you or your son.
Is it ever too soon to use sexual assault victims for lame attempts at humor? Most somewhat moral people would say, "yes."
Fire them all.
Guess I don't know enough about all of the facts to make a personal judgment. But at the same time, if wrong was done, then those propagating that wrong need to be disciplined.
This isn't East Lansing or Columbus. Justice needs to be served.
Seems fairly obvious that anyone in the know should be disassociated from the university at this point. I am personally in favor of, at minimum, suspending Warde. It's highly doubtful that him forwarding everything to lawyers first was an innocent mistake. You don't become the AD of a Big Ten school by not understanding basic Title IX regulations.
I'm also in favor of further exploring what Bo knew. If nothing, great! But he shouldn't be exempt from scrutiny in this process.
Despite loving Michigan and cheering for my alma mater every chance I get, I firmly feel this should be treated the exact same way as the Nassar and Sandusky situations. Full external review, heavy penalties against the AD and school.
For all of our trumpeting about Leaders and Best, it seems like the school has a tendency to circle the wagons rather than doing the right thing.
As a non-lawyer, the first thing I would do if someone presented me with information like this would be to ask a lawyer where I needed to report that information to.
How would one explore what Bo would have known in a fair manner? It is standard practice that if an accused dies after being found guilty, but while an appeal is pending the case is dismissed because the accused is not considered to have a had a fair chance to defend themselves.
Doc Anderson was a greasy, fat, nerdy doctor that nobody particularly liked seeing because he was a greasy, fat, nerdy dude.
I would be very surprised if someone came to Schmitty and said "Hey, doc Anderson just grabbed me inappropriately" and he laughed it off.
In 1970s and 80s, I would be surprised if anyone considered that "inappropriate". Moral standards and awareness were different. That doesn't excuse any of what has happened. Everyone involved should be investigated and appropriate actions taken against people found to be at fault.
This continued through the 90s and into the 00s, what about then?
Drip, drip, drip...
I say we all go full Sparty and blame ESPN for their fake news!
J/k. Sadly this is a story that is all too prevelent and our University failed people. Let's all hope they learn from it and try to rectify it as best as possible.
Hopefully UM will be transparent and stop the damage. A cover-up just makes things much worse. I'm not going to pre-judge the AD or the board until an official investigation is complete.
The opportunity for transparency for the current administration was 2 years ago, but it was buried instead. We have new opportunities for transparency, I hope we take then.
Sounds like Schmidt should be heavily disciplined and Manuel needs a scolding, brief suspension and retrained on how to handle these issues.
Take Canham’s name off anything on campus.
Warde is mediocre at best. No need to retain him.
Agreed. I thought the interim Jim Hackett did a MUCH better job overall and was bummed that he didn’t want to take the job permanently.
This wouldn't be OK if Warde was a great AD. What Canham did (failed to do) was not OK.
Warde gets absolutely no pass from me, he absolutely knew that he should have forwarded it to the Title IX office first or he is just the dumbest Fucking AD on earth and still should be fired. This is the reason why I never jumped on the Ped State bandwagon or what happened to ohio, Karma reaches up and slaps the ever loving fuck out of you. We won't be the last school that has something like this spring up either but we can damn sure lead the way in how it's handled What will impress me is if we handle it appropriately and expeditiously for the victims without trying to smear anyone, offer up excuses or technicalities.
What are the responsibilities of the Title IX office that would require them receiving notification of an accusation prior to or simultaneously with the General Council's office?
Anybody?
Where is the protocol published?
There isn’t one. And no one here crying that Warde should be fired has any clue that one exists.
Jesus, firing him for telling the legal department? How absurd.
There are tons of protocols around mandatory reporting, Warde is trained in them every year, and “run it by the GC first” sure as shit isn’t one of them.
You come off like a stupid scumbag.
Where are they published?
Uh, why would UM HR publish their mandatory reporting guidelines? They’re for internal use. If I had to sit through mandatory reporting training every year I was at UM, you can bet your life Warde does too.
here is the general language
https://studentsexualmisconductpolicy.umich.edu/content/1-responsible-employees
To answer your question, a public body using public funds should/likely must publish the rules for senior management.
And since you came up with them, clearly they are not just for internal use as they are published.
Having read the thing, it's impossible to notice that it calls for anyone with questions to contact the GC, and subsequently provides the telephone number.
It seems Warde did that very thing.
Do you really want to get into a pissing contest over the word "immediately" and "timely" within the context of this document, when it reportedly made it to Title IX that afternoon?
Anyone holding a complaint of sexual misconduct in this day and age who is not on the phone with a lawyer is a moron.
If it was held, now you have a beef. So far, it looks like it got where it was supposed to get in a timely fashion.
You’re reaching hard to show that Warde didn’t fuck up, when he clearly did. Obviously, thinking that Michigan is someone superior in its conduct is very important to you.
sorry to disavow you of that notion.
Well done, never let reason interfere with your hating.
Hi - so you very visibly don't understand how university legal departments work (or should work). Legal is typically involved with every Title IX complaint at some level. The Title IX coordinators work with the GC's office and outside counsel. While a conflict of interest may exist in some respect between the Title IX coordinator and the GC, the GC is ultimately going to control these issues.
It is not a coverup to keep legal in the loop - it is inane to fail to do so. At worst Warde violated an internal policy - and it's not clear that he did based on a plaintiff lawyer's claim or the policy you posted even if what the lawyer said is true. BTW, the plaintiff's lawyer wants money, he is going to say whatever he needs to to get that money.
Michigan may have engaged in all sorts of misconduct here, and if they did, they deserve what's coming. But the idea that involving the GC is a mistake, combined with the farcical understanding of conflicts of interest you detailed earlier in this thread, show pretty clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
Jesus man. Writing a lot doesn't make you correct.
At worst Warde violated an internal policy - and it's not clear that he did based on a plaintiff lawyer's claim or the policy you posted even if what the lawyer said is true.
The first line of Michigan's responsibility to report.
Responsible employees must immediately report any information they learn about suspected Prohibited Conduct to OIE or the Title IX Coordinator.
Immediately doesn't mean after you run it by your internal council. If Warde didn't contact Title IX or the Office of Institutional Equity immediately, that's a fireable offense - with cause.
The word in the policy (and I believe under the relevant guidance) is “timely” not “immediately.” In any event, the Title IX office is not an independent ombudsman - they work with the GC. The idea that the GC getting a complaint hours earlier is fireable is laughable. Also, as an actual lawyer (not just someone who had to sit through Title IX presentations), let me know if you want a primer on firing for “cause.”
At this point it appears that it would be a good idea to flush out anyone of the old guard that would conceal or withhold information in any way. There's just no room for anything but full transparency and accountability both legally and symbolically. I don't have legal insights into Warde's actions, but nothing that M as an institution has done here says "Leaders and Best." I personally don't care if we fire Warde, everything he's done apart from hiring Juwan is at best replacement-level.
This attitude people seem to have that they are OK with firing Warde because he hasn't done many great things is absurd and infuriating. If he did something bad, how many good things he did is irrelevant. Otherwise, you are using the MSU logic that caused them to protect Mork. "But look how good he's been for the University!"
That's not what I wrote at all. I wrote that I didn't understand the legal aspects of whether he should be fired but that it wouldn't be a great loss from a more conventional / athletic competition standpoint. If he deserves to be fired, he should be fired, but I am withholding judgment on that aspect because I don't want to pretend to be an online lawyer.
double-post, sorry
1) Michigan is investigating, asking athletes and trying to fact find
2)this is nothing like PSU/MSU. Both NASSAR and SANDUSKY are alive and Paterno and MSU pres/BOT still actively engaged at the time of investigation...and they sat on it.
3) ANDERSON DIED IN 2003. CANHAM GONE, BO GONE ..yep there are people still around that may have known...but it also occured in different times where standards of trust were very different.
4) athletes who came forward and were violated or made to feel uncomfortable make them whole by whatever means possible.
5) all the fucking poser do-good crusaders chiming in that have no clue other than what they read on a blog or earn xxxxx man points shut the fuck up already. To those attempting rational common sense carry on.
It's hard for me to believe that Bo, Moeller and Carr weren't aware of the issues with Anderson. That's not a pleasant thought to have.
One of the football player survivors says he doesn't think Bo knew because Bo wouldn't stand for that kind of thing. But I'm sure most of Paterno's players would have said the same thing. :(
Lloyd's the one that would break me. Struck me as one of the few people with morals in a world that was increasing saying fuck it. Similar to Beilein in that way.
LLOYD is a moral paragon? Wow do you operate in a fantasy world.
Fire anyone who knew of the abuse while the monster was alive and didn't report it. Manuel...that's a tougher one. The guy was dead and there was no potential for more abuse, but there was potential for perpetuating victim suffering...but he did let admin know. Suspend, fine?
For ALL universities moving forward, it should be VERY simple--if abuse is reported to you, you FIRST and IMMEDIATELY report it to Title IX, or you are fired for cause. No exceptions. Not sure why ANY coach or AD wouldn't do that--that lets them off the hook and puts the onus on the people whose job is to investigate.