OT: cortisone shot update

Submitted by bassclefstef on June 29th, 2021 at 1:19 AM

Hi there-

A couple months back, I posted a thread asking if anyone had any experience with cortisone shots. I'll post a link to it here, but to summarize- my wife has been dealing with some kind of persistent injury since about the end of january, causing her pain in her neck, left elbow, and hand. She works as a violist, violinist, and music teacher, and she has been unable to play since mid-February.

Original thread- https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/ot-anyone-have-experience-cortisone-shots

I wanted to write a diary updating anyone who may be interested on how things are going, since I got a lot of treat feedback on that thread. Mods- if this isn't an appropriate forum for this and it needs to be deleted, I understand.

When we visited the hand specialist who we thought was going to be doing the shot, back in April, he decided against it. The only issue he could see on her x-ray was a small bone spur on her left middle finger, and he didn't think a cortisone shot would help that much. He did suspect that she had some sort of nerve issue in either her wrist or elbow, and recommended that she go get an EMG to investigate that.

About two weeks later, end of April, we got the results of her MRI back, and it showed either a pinched or irritated nerve at her C5 cervical vertebrae. The neck/shoulder specialist who ordered the MRI referred her to a physical therapist so start working on that.

It took a while for the referral for the EMG to go through, we wound up doing that about six weeks ago, middle of May. That didn't show either carpal tunnel syndrome, or damage at her ulnar nerve, so it seems like the issue is isolated to her neck. That test was miserable, by the way- I went with her so she could squeeze my hand for it, and I just about passed out when I saw the 6th needle stick. Her arm was irritated (beyond how irritated it normally is these days) for a solid week afterwards.

She's been doing physical therapy on her neck for the last several weeks (with a two-week break for a music festival on Missouri, we just got back this past weekend), and it really doesn't seem to be making much of a difference. Her PT and the neck/shoulder specialist have both recommended doing a cortisone shot for her neck, so we're back to that now. Her first one is next Thursday afternoon, 7/8, and a second on 7/22.

I've gotta be honest, I'm dreading this on her behalf. I'm going to drive her, but I can't go in the room with her- probably just as well, if I got queasy at the EMG, but I get so panicky waiting in waiting rooms, I'm not sure I'll do all that much better there. I'll be able to hang out with her for a few hours afterwards, but then I need to head to a rehearsal early that evening. My mom is going to come up to our place to keep an eye on her after I have to leave.

So that's where things are. I'll post a comment below with an update next week, and hopefully it'll be worth the stress. Thanks for taking the time to read, I really appreciate it. 

Comments

VAWolverine

June 29th, 2021 at 11:18 AM ^

I am an occupational therapist and empathize with your wife's situation both as a rehab provider and a client myself. I have had an EMG performed for a pinched nerve (C5-C6) in 1989. The loud sound of static on the machine as the physician inserted needles from my finger tips to my posterior cervical spine was not a lot of fun. When the needles were inserted into muscle bellies, the doc would wiggle them that resulted in the sound of more static from the machine. I had bruising up and down for two weeks. This is nothing I want to do again.

I have had injections in a foot for plantar fascitis, my hips for bursitis, and my low back for continued pain. All of the injections were tolerable. They take a topical numbing agent to numb where the injection will occur so all that you feel is a stick and then the mild pressure of the bolus of steroid being injected into the area. Steroid injections will elevate blood sugar levels of people with diabetes so if this is an issue it requires monitoring.

Has your wife had any peripheral nerve tension tests by any of the therapists? This is assessing how the ulnar, radial and or median nerve can lengthen as it is progressively stretched beginning at the shoulder, moving distally then positioning the head and neck last. You can probably view these on YouTube. Look for Epley's nerve tension tests.

This condition is common for musicians and dental hygienists and you can more than likely find a therapist who is into ergonomics to assist you. Thoracic outlet syndrome should also be considered since the movements involved with playing the violin can constrict nerves and vessels that run between the clavicle and first rib. There are other provocative physical tests that can further assess this.

Thanks for the update and good luck. Recovery and function and the reduction of pain take time so maintain hope.

bassclefstef

June 29th, 2021 at 12:24 PM ^

Hey VAW-thanks, that's really helpful to hear. I'm not sure that shes had peripheral nerve tests, I'll give them a look on youtube.

She was a trooper for the EMG, I was the wuss. They had the bed set up against the wall, so the only place I could be to be able to hold her hand was right behind her head, so the speakers were really close and I couldnt avoid seeing everything that was going on. Between hearing all the static and seeing everything, plus the room was pretty warm, I got dizzy and had to sit down for the last few minutes. I've been with her for some other gnarly procedures in the past and hadn't had that happen before, I felt pretty bad about it.

Thanks for the encouragement- we're both trying to hang in there and stay positive, but it's definitely starting to wear on us.

crom80

June 29th, 2021 at 12:21 PM ^

I hope everything works out for your wife. Also, try to help her avoid any unnecessary stress, both physical and mental.

I have a friend who also got the shot while suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome in his wrist and elbow. He was a postdoc applying for grants and faculty positions at the time and spent a lot of time on his computer.

Around the time he got the shot, still being very busy interviewing, applying for grants and being very very stressed, he got the shingles.

It could be just a coincidence but the shot does lower the immune system, that is the whole idea of the shot, and he thinks his shingles came about due to the shot and being very stressed at the time.

double0jimb0

June 29th, 2021 at 3:41 PM ^

Has she been spending more hours of the day on a laptop?   A lot of people went from an ergonomic desktop setup pre-Covid to working exclusively hunched over their laptop for many more hours a day.

I make and sell www.therooststand.com.  It gets your laptop screen up to eye level, use it with an external keyboard and mouse as well. It is as good as it gets for proper ergonomics on a laptop.

Hunching at a laptop wreaks havoc on all nerves coming out of the cervical spine.  I invented the product because I had to quit working at 27 due to RSI in the cubital and ulnar nerves, both arms.  Turns out the root cause was my hunching over all day at laptop.  Did the full nerve conduction tests, PT, etc, etc.  I don't envy the pain and uncertainty of the situation your wife is in.

Email me at [email protected] if you would like the GoBlue discount.  I'm a BSMSE Michigan Aero '06.

bassclefstef

June 29th, 2021 at 4:16 PM ^

She might be spending a little more time on the laptop, but I wouldn't say that it's a ton of time- shes the chair of the string department at our school, so she'll spend some extra time at the end of the day writing emails, but it's definitely not hours on end. We got a standing desk for her office at our place pretty early into the shutdown, but I'll ask her if that's something she would be interested in.

double0jimb0

June 29th, 2021 at 11:58 PM ^

Gotcha. If it’s just a laptop sitting on a standing desk, that setup will still cause her to look down, triggering cervical spine issues.  Since nerves are already enflamed, even the smallest aggravation can trigger symptoms.  I’m happy to send you a free one to see if it helps.

oldderthanoldguy

June 29th, 2021 at 5:44 PM ^

Good luck, I've had 3 EMG's on my left arm and 2 Ulnar nerve surgeries on the same arm, the doctor at UM was great but I learned real fast nerves pretty much do what they want when it comes to fixing them.

I get 2 cortisone shots in the same elbow every year and it seems to help for a few weeks but then it goes numb again. I've been using a hemp cream for about 6 months now and it seems to help just about as much

DiploMan

June 29th, 2021 at 8:49 PM ^

All anecdotal, but I had a couple epidural cortisone shots in my lumbar spine for sciatica many years ago that had negligible effect.  My father in law has had a couple shots in his cervical spine that he describes as "magical."

From what I understand, the shots are fairly low risk.  If they succeed in breaking the inflammation cycle by shrinking the nerve swelling to the point that it stops irritating itself, then they can produce a cure.  But if there is a root cause to the irritation that goes beyond that, then the beneficial effects will wear off and you will be back where you started.  The advice I've always heard was: try it once or twice, but if that doesn't cure it, then consider moving on to something else.  Long term steroid use is bad news.

Best of luck to you.

Wendyk5

June 30th, 2021 at 12:20 AM ^

I had an EMG and an additional test where the neurologist shot electrical currents -- honestly, they were electrical shocks -- from my hands to my neck to confirm carpal tunnel. It took 2 hours and was just horrifying and painful. Like getting electroshock therapy while awake. After a lot of physical therapy, I ended up getting a cortisone shot in my hand that worked wonders. My sister-in-law was having a lot of pain in her neck and difficulty moving her arm. Doc found that she has stenosis -- a narrowing of the spinal cord and she has to have surgery to replace a bone in her neck with a cadaver bone. She said acupuncture helped with the pain in the interim. Has your wife done any acupuncture? I hope she finds some relief. Chronic pain is just so debilitating. 

MGoStrength

June 30th, 2021 at 9:25 AM ^

I'm not a huge fan of cortisol shots.  They are a band aid and usually help for a few weeks, but it won't fix the issue and you'll need to go back for more.  It's like going to a chiropractor.  It makes you feel better, but it's just a short term relief that does not fix the underlying issue.

Another option is to try an injection of synthetic synovial fluid.  There are several manufacturers nows.  It's not FDA approved for anything other than knees yet, but logic tells us if it works on one joint it would work on others.  If you aren't familiar with synovial fluid, it's basically a lubricant for the joints that helps them move easier.

The other possibility is arthroscopic surgery to shave down and reshape the bone.  They go in with a small camera and tool.  It's minimally invasive.  I'm not sure if they do it on such small areas like a finger, but they use in other joints like knees, ankles, etc.  If they do decide to do any surgery see about PRP (platelet rich plasma) injections to help with the recovery.  It likely won't help unless it's right after an injury or a surgery, but can really help healing.  It's also not covered by the FDA or insurance, but sometimes orthos will do it for free with a surgery.

I went through similar issues in how to treat arthritis and bone spurs in my ankle from an old fracture 25 years ago that now gives me pain.  Good luck!

teldar

June 30th, 2021 at 11:10 AM ^

I'm a nurse anesthetist. I don't do pain in general but do work with pain guys occasionally. I do work with spine and hand all the time. I got a cortisone shot for a frozen shoulder and it was magical. It didn't hurt at all. I'm told that's unusual.I have some nerve impingement but haven't gotten a shot for it.

Cortisone injections for spinal problems area usually not long term fixes. You get a series of shots then you get surgery, in my anecdotal experience. If she has to go that route, look for someone who does artificial discs.

 

JamieH

June 30th, 2021 at 4:09 PM ^

I think I commented in your original thread.  I've had 2 cortisone shots, both for plantar fasciitis

Neither shot was very painful and both were very effective and allowed me to heal completely.  Obviously your wife has a specific injury that is very different from the one I had. 

I wish her the best!

Petr89

June 30th, 2021 at 8:15 PM ^

I’m a doc (radiology) and I do these kinds of injections under image-guidance, both in the spine and joints. The vast majority of people tolerate these procedures very well. There is a subset of people who seem to have a psychogenic component to their pain who don’t do well during the procedure or respond particularly well either (I’ve never been able to figure out if these people have pain because they’re “crazy” or are “crazy” because they have pain…but you can usually intuitively identify them as soon as you walk in the room). 

Anyway, it seems like roughly 1/3 of people don’t get much relief, 1/3 of people get a few weeks or a few months, and 1/3 of people are “cured.” This is anecdotal as I don’t really have patients of my own (I’m just the guy with a camera and a needle) and I don’t get much formal follow up or feedback. 

One thing I wanted to note (and my main reason for posting): as you might infer from the story here, it can be hard to localize the source of nerve-related  symptoms. The body doesn’t do a great job of differentiating the source of pain. This is particularly true in the low back/pelvis/hip, but elsewhere too. Is it a pinched lumbar nerve? Is it SI joint pain? Is it mechanical hip pain? An often overlooked component of these injections is that they perform both a therapeutic AND diagnostic function.

The therapeutic part is: “this might make take away the pain for a period of time.”

The diagnostic part is: you had pain. I delivered a dose of short-acting anesthetic (basically lidocaine) and a steroid at a specific location (for example, the left L5 nerve root or the right SI joint). Even if the steroid isn’t able to “cure” the nerve/joint irritation, if the source of the pain is indeed this specific nerve root or joint, then the “lidocaine” should knock that pain out for a day or whatever. So even if you only have a few hours of relief, that can be valuable info for the orthopod or neurosurgeon in terms of targeting any subsequent surgical options. I always tell my patients to pay close attention to their symptoms after getting the shot and to communicate them to the surgery folks when they follow up. I am reluctant to do multiple injections at one time for this reason: if I treat the L3, L4, and L5 nerve roots at once then the diagnostic value is lost (but there are situations where it is totally reasonable to do multiple injections).

MMB 82

July 2nd, 2021 at 1:20 AM ^

EMG/NCV tests are also practitioner-dependent. I know a few neurologists and physiatrists who can perform them with minimal discomfort (though there is always some), and I know a few who seemed to have been trained by Josef Mengele. Still, it is an important test to help differentiate cervical radiculopathy from median or ulnar nerve compression when the physical examination is equivocal.

The epidural steroid injection isn't "a band aide" to temporarily cover symptoms, but is a method to reduce inflammation to help the body heal. The thing is, you can take any random person 50 years or older and run them thru an MRI, and you will find pathology- bulging discs, impinged nerves, bone spurs, central or neuroforaminal stenosis, etc., but most people are asymptomatic; the whole point of treatment is to get you back into the "silent majority." Epidurals can be either transforaminal or interlaminar, and in the hands of a good physician will be minimally uncomfortable, and certainly way less stressful than an EMG. Sometimes they are done under very light sedation, but that is usually not necessary. If one or two helps the pain, usually you then proceed to (or return to) physical therapy. "Put out the fire, then rebuild the house." Surgery should be considered a last resort, if conservative treatment fails.

Good luck!

The Mechanic

July 6th, 2021 at 10:53 AM ^

I've had a couple of disks replaced in my neck for similar symptoms. Had the spinal jab three time for lower back pain. Needed surgery for that. Get her the best nero surgen possible. Best of luck.

nine and three

July 6th, 2021 at 12:33 PM ^

I remember when you posted this. I was curious how this turned out?I was having nerve problems with my hands at the same time. Since then I had a emg ( brutal) the doctors diagnosed me with cubital tunnel syndrome. I will be getting my surgery July 19. Hopefully it helps. Good luck to your wife and you.

Blue Ninja

July 8th, 2021 at 8:42 AM ^

Thanks for posting about what your wife is going through. I just recently found out I probably have a similar issue going on. Mid-May I suddenly began experiencing shoulder pain in my left arm, numbness, tingling with burning sensation all the way down the arm and muscle spasms in the wrist. At first I thought it was my shoulder as the pain in that area felt very similar to previous labrum tears I've had, it was the tingling that was different. 

Suffice it to say, this week I finally got in to see an orthopaedic surgeon and he quickly diagnosed me as having a neck/spinal issue, not a shoulder injury. So I'm off to get an MRI next week and after that possibly a spinal specialist. The Xrays showed possible arthritis and bone spurs in the neck vertebrae. I'm in my early 50's so these type of things are expected to happen. Look forward to further updates on your wife as her journey is similar to what I have begun. 

I've had cortisone shots twice for my shoulders, and I've experienced both a shot that hurt worse than about anything I've experienced and one that felt no worse than getting a flu shot. Both from the same Dr, but I think they improved how they gave them in that span of time. I'm not a fan of needles at all but I usually am good about it since I know it'll help.

bassclefstef

July 8th, 2021 at 10:53 AM ^

Hey! I'd like to sincerely thank everyone who read and commented for your support, it really means a lot. My wife's appointment is at 2 this afternoon. She's out teaching at a summer music camp right now, and then we'll head over together. She's fasting now, and since she's getting the injection in her neck (the issue is at her C5 cervical vertebrae), I'm not sure how much fun eating is going to be right after, so I made a big batch of corn chowder yesterday. Smoky ham hock broth, corn, cauliflower, leeks, and onion, simmered together and blended up, and then I tossed in some charred corn kernels and poblano peppers.

Anyway, I'll probably post from the waiting room, and again when we're home. I've got a rehearsal tonight with a local summer concert band that I'm playing for, but my mom is going to come up and hang out with her after I leave. I bet this is all overkill when it comes to preparing to take care of her, but I'd rather do too much than not enough.

Cheers!

rockydude

July 12th, 2021 at 2:22 PM ^

I’ve also heard all the stories about how painful cortisone shots are, but when I got one in my tailbone, it wasn’t that bad at all. Hopefully, hers is also easy and gives her a little relief. Sometimes it can be that little boost that helps a person to better position themselves and that sort of thing, allowing them to better heal.