podcasts
wtka roundtable
sign stealing scandal type substance
2023 michigan state

WTKA Roundtable 10/26/2023: Take a Breath Comment Count

Seth October 26th, 2023 at 10:14 AM

Things Discussed:

  • MSU: Credit to the team.
  • Signgate: SI article is interesting because it's the only one not part of Ohio State's orchestrated PR campaign.
  • How much does it matter? Coaches say very little: give me run or pass.
  • How much was Stalions working on his own? Probably all of it. Brian: Not hard to figure out where the money's coming from: Mom & Dad. He's the kind of guy who'd write a manifesto about how he's going to take over the Michigan.
  • Problem is because the NCAA holds coaches accountable even if they didn't know. Hopefully Michigan has processes in place that show they were actively discouraging this behavior.
  • Real scrutiny: their vetting process for low-level staffers needs to improve.
  • Ryan Day: Only way I can get beat is if someone cheats, because I'm that brilliant.
  • OSU-PSU: Drew Allar isn't that good and you can't put the game on him.

[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]

You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.

Segment 2 is here. You can watch the video here:

The Usual Links:

This does not explain why you're bad at your job.

Comments

growler4

October 26th, 2023 at 12:15 PM ^

I find a lot of this to be confusing. A lengthy message board post today was pretty informative and seemed to indicate that in person recording of a future opponent's game is permissable, as opposed to in person scouting. Yet, does that apply to anyone, such as a hired 3rd party, or to anyone including someone(s) affiliated with the program?

 

I suspect that I am likely quite a bit older than most who actively access this site... but does anyone else remember the big bruhaha in the 1970's (the Bo vs. Woody era) when Ohio State was accused of filming Michigan football practices, during the week before The Game, from the attic of a house on State Street??

I've searched for a link to the story but have come up empty so far.

Joined: 11/24/2014

MGoPoints: 1704

JBLPSYCHED

October 26th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^

After a long few days trying to alternately parse the likely reality and how the rules might apply vs. feeling increasingly concerned that it sort of doesn't matter bc the NCAA "has it out" for Harbaugh and Michigan, I found this roundtable to be very reassuring. Brian isn't worried and he explains why, Seth feels more or less the same way, and Sam lays out the context very effectively. (Craig seems more skeptical but he just seems more cautious in general.)

If you've been following this so-called scandal on a day to day/story by story basis and found yourself feeling increasingly concerned, I highly recommend investing 45 minutes in this great listen. Even just the first 15 minutes will do you wonders.

I don't love swearing on message boards, but today I'll indulge myself: Fuck Ohio State, they don't know how to beat us and they know what's coming next month. We're going to beat them into a pulp and we certainly don't need their sign to do so. And Fuck the NCAA for enabling more bad behavior than they were ever capable of stopping (looking at you and your stupid PI/PR firm, OSU).

GO BLUE!

Joined: 11/27/2010

MGoPoints: 7441

Dean Pelton

October 26th, 2023 at 12:49 PM ^

The end goal of the NCAA is to be such a pest that Harbaugh finally says screw this and heads back to the NFL. They will keep harassing Michigan until Harbaugh leaves. I am fully on board having David Brandon come back as a consultant just to deal with the NCAA. After years of Michigan being close to unwatchable it blows my mind that there are influential donors donors who want Harbaugh gone. I really hope they give him a new contract but gun to my head I would say he is in the NFL next season. 

Joined: 08/01/2020

MGoPoints: 9382

reggieb

October 26th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^

Wait wait wait, where did the claim that OSU hired a private investigator even come from? We have a claim that an "Outside investigative firm" was who originally approached the NCAA. That's it, right? Jumping to "IT WAS OHIO STATE!!!!!" is just as bad as the OSU fans convinced wins are going to be vacated.

I guess it's possible that OSU hired a PI, but there isn't any evidence that I have seen, and unless I missed something, is really just wild speculation.

Joined: 03/01/2010

MGoPoints: 9

GoBlueZ06

October 26th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^

No, it's not wild speculation. 

Which games did the photos you have seen in these articles come from? Why did that particular opponent happen to have those photos and those angles? 

Which coach has, after each loss, accused their opponent of some version of this? Hint, it's THRID BASE. Did the same thing w/ Clemson and Georgia.

Which school stands to benefit the most from this going on, at this time? 

Absolutely agree w/ Brian's take on this, this is one hundred percent a calculated and coordinated PR attack on Michigan by Ohio State.

Joined: 10/31/2020

MGoPoints: 1961

dragonchild

October 26th, 2023 at 1:28 PM ^

Ohio State, the B1G, and the NCAA.  All of whom famously hate Michigan and/or Harbaugh.  Also the media, although they're not taking sides so much as riding a wave for cheap clicks.

OSU hired a firm (good lord how petty do you have to be), NCAA has a guy who hates Michigan [succeeding without him], and while I really don't know where the B1G's hate comes from, OSU has been their darling since the Hayes days.  And finally, Michigan "scandals" are easy money for the media.

All this goes to show, you really don't want fans running institutions.  You get juvenile behavior from people you need to behave like grown-ups.

 

Joined: 10/13/2011

MGoPoints: 61371

reggieb

October 26th, 2023 at 1:32 PM ^

Are you talking about the photos that OSU fans have been surfacing? Of course most of that is from OSU, because OSU fans hate Michigan, and they will be the first to rabidly search this shit out. That doesn't explain the post on the Tennessee forum from last year talking about this.

So what you're telling me is that it is speculation, based on the fact that Ryan Day hates Michigan. You can speculate that, but in this roundtable it's being stated as if it's fact. That isn't a good look, because it's pure speculation.

Joined: 03/01/2010

MGoPoints: 9

Seth

October 26th, 2023 at 1:30 PM ^

The vector of information points back to them. Bill Greene was the first to post on a message board that they had something, and then other OSU people were chatting that something's going to break while they were preparing to roll out the smear campaign with it. This is pretty ironclad; Ohio State hired a PI and orchestrated a PR campaign.

Joined: 10/14/2008

MGoPoints: 149732

willirwin1778

October 26th, 2023 at 1:10 PM ^

I think everyone is making way too big a deal out of "sign stealing"

It is an accepted part of the game and if a rule was broken it was pretty marginal.  It is a neat story for sure, because it is a part of the sport that fans aren't usually exposed to, so in that sense it has gotten peoples attention.

But at the end of the day it is a marginal offense and it won't go anywhere.  

Joined: 03/09/2013

MGoPoints: 5049

dragonchild

October 26th, 2023 at 1:18 PM ^

I'll say it again, it's all so silly to me because if Michigan had their signs stolen, literally my ONLY thought would be, "Michigan, fix your opsec."

People are losing their minds in ways they don't realize will be thoroughly embarrassing when this finally blows over.  If your football program is so heavily dependent on protecting signs that a 600-page-manifesto lunatic was able to yoink from your coaching staff of multi-millionaires, you have a shit program.

Joined: 10/13/2011

MGoPoints: 61371

ak47

October 26th, 2023 at 1:26 PM ^

If you believe Michigan can win a championship this year and also are worried about reputation this is the best time for this scandal to break. If it broke after the year was already over the championship would be tainted.  But if Michigan beats osu and psu this year and wins a championship you can pretty definitively say they did it without advance scout sign stealing and it re-affirms those previous years aren’t really questionable either 

Joined: 05/05/2011

MGoPoints: 33614

philthy66

October 26th, 2023 at 1:59 PM ^

Trying to push out a good man because he threatens everything. Way of life, greed, wealth, power, politics. He threatens all of it. We all want justice. Sign the contract extension. Let’s see how he changes the game and the fruit that will bear. Jim Harbaugh is more than a person. He is a movement. And this movement will invoke change. Leaders and best. Paving the way. The microphone is yours now, Jim. 

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 974

MFanWM

October 26th, 2023 at 7:08 PM ^

Fairly certain Ryan Day was involved hiding bodies with Craig James at SMU - maybe a firm from Michigan should look into that as well...and look for the right signs for where they were buried.

Joined: 09/19/2010

MGoPoints: 5223