Defensive Coordinators
First off, I know we haven't fired anyone yet and personally, I can envision a scenario where Gerg stays on next year, but none of that is the point of this post.
I have a three part question for the board (it is a slow day so I figure it is a good time):
1) Who are the best DC's out there in the college football world (or perhaps even assistants that are in line for a promotion)?
2) Which of the best DC's do you think would be available (or I guess "take" would be the word I am after) the job at UM if offerred?
3) Who would want to see as our next DC?
To finish, please lets just keep this at hypothetical and not get into the "we need a new DC" or RR has to go....I would just like to know the opinions of my fellow UM fans as to who the best DC's are and whether they would want to jump on board.
It thanksgiving (at least for most of you on here) so lets just have a good natured discussion.
GO BLUE! Pound the bucks!
November 25th, 2010 at 1:21 PM ^
The phrase "ad nauseum" comes to mind.
November 25th, 2010 at 1:25 PM ^
I have seen lots of disjointed comments on the topic here in numerous threads, I confess that. I haven't seen one thread where we discuss in one place who the best DC's in college football are and what the chances are that they would have interest in UM.
If it upsets you feel free not to click on the thread again......
November 25th, 2010 at 1:32 PM ^
I'm curious as to your scenario where GERG stays on. Can you elaborate?
November 25th, 2010 at 1:43 PM ^
It's the opposite universe scenerio.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:16 PM ^
Goatee?
November 25th, 2010 at 1:43 PM ^
but if I was AD (which I certainly am not and don't have nearly the expertise required) I think I would keep him on an addition year if we could not land an elite DC. If all we could get would be a medicore DC I think the continuity of having Gerg for three years could offset what you would get in that tradeoff.
Again, I am no expert and could be completely wrong, but that was what I was thinking could happen.
November 25th, 2010 at 1:53 PM ^
I am also not an Athletic Director but I'd sure as Hell trade the world's worst DC for a mediocre one. Which mediocre one did you have in mind?
God I'd kill to be mediocre on defense.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:02 PM ^
I lol'd at your response and mostly agree with you. I just wonder if the upgrade to a mediocre DC might be outweighed by the continuity of the worlds worst DC. Again, I may be overestimating the effect that continuity would have especially considering the results put forth thus far.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:25 PM ^
Well considering that continuity would mean our LBs continuing to line up incorrectly, our gap assaignment continues to be poor, our ability to adjust mid-game is non-existent and teams continue to score at will against us I'll take my chances with the unknown.
November 25th, 2010 at 3:26 PM ^
You dont have the expertise to post on Mgoblog either
November 26th, 2010 at 7:37 AM ^
and where does a comment like that come from?
November 25th, 2010 at 2:59 PM ^
his post has resulted in much better and useful answers than this post.
November 25th, 2010 at 3:22 PM ^
And a happy thanksgiving to you. Mine was a month ago, but I am thinking of beginning to celebrate this great holiday twice a year in honor of all of my fellow fans here on Mgoblog.
Have a great day guys!
November 25th, 2010 at 4:14 PM ^
I would never argue with that avatar M'Dog.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:38 PM ^
this is somehow a duplicate post? Please delete, sorry.
November 25th, 2010 at 1:28 PM ^
Additional questions:
1. Does GERG go or the entire defensive staff? If just GERG, will M be able to get a top notch coordinator if he can't pick his own staff.
!A. assuming the new coordinator picks is own staff, this means that the position coaches will be gone. Because the position coaches recruit most of the players, will we lose recruits as a result of this?
2. When does M make the move? I would like us to use our 15 bowl practices to get ready for next year, but I doubt he can get a top-notch coordinator before the end of the bowl period.
November 25th, 2010 at 1:46 PM ^
It would be nice to get them in time for the 15 practices. I am not sure how likely that could be, but RR came during that time and he was certainly considered a top-notch coach then (I still think he is, but some here would argue that with me so I will leave it at that....I want a civil discussion here).
November 26th, 2010 at 12:40 AM ^
In my opinion I would have have to say we get rid of the entire defensive staff. The fact of the matter lies not just with the DC, but the entire defense. For M to obtain a top notch DC that may want a job with this team, they will want and have to have their own coaches in place. However, they will also want to run their own defensive schemes, so RR will have to bow out trying to be a defensive coach and stick with the offense.
As for the recruits we might lose, I really don't see this as an option. I honestly think if we were to get the best of the best out there, then the recruits like Jernigan (who is looking else where as we speak, because of our defensive schemes,) might as well come on board. This is just my opinion. I just hope that if DB does pull the trigger, it happens before the bowl game. I like the rest of you, think that the extra 15 practices that would be available would prove monumental for the bowl game and even for the furture (next year) for this team. We have a shit ton of youth and really believe there is a ton of potential that just needs to be steered in the right direction.
November 26th, 2010 at 8:50 AM ^
He doesn't want to be doubled every play by design. If he turns out as good as projected he'll get doubled because of demanding it.
November 25th, 2010 at 1:41 PM ^
Since someone brought up the term "ad nauseum" I'll add this: If the defense is so young that Rodriguez gets a three-year free pass, why not Gerg?
If Gerg has been forced to run a 3-3-5 without the talent to run a 3-3-5, why can him? WHO ordered him to run a 3-3-5 without proper personnel?
UM, as King Beaver always says, does not pay Top End money for assistants, including coordinators. Soooooo....who will come here for about $250 G per year?
Lastly, who is going to come here knwoing it's a one-year audition not just for him (or her) but for the entire staff?
AND, and here's the Big One: What DC will come here knwoing that if the team stinky poops next year, HE will get blamed for EVERYTHING and the UM fan base will scream for RR to get a fifth year while canning yet another DC?
November 25th, 2010 at 1:45 PM ^
1) http://collegefootball.rivals.com/viewCFSE.asp?selposition=3
- Ron Vanderlinden - Penn State's LB Coach
- Sal Sunseri- Alabama's LB Coach
- Rick Kaczenski - Iowa's DL Coach
- There are probably a lot more that I can't think of
2) I wouldn't know about guys that are available
3) I'd like to see
- Vanderlinden
- Trgovac
- Bedford
November 25th, 2010 at 2:07 PM ^
Good choices too, by the way.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:50 PM ^
I disagree. None of those choices are defensive coordinators at the moment. I wouldn't want to give a position coach the task of reshaping this defense. We need someone who has a track record of fielding competent defenses and has shown he can turn things around quickly. However, I don't know of any who fit that criteria off of the top of my head.
November 25th, 2010 at 3:22 PM ^
Vance Bedford is a DC at the moment at Louisville and is doing quite well. Granted, Charlie Strong helps a lot, but still
and the other 2 I listed have been DC's before so it wouldn't be completely new to them
November 25th, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^
I'd have to look at the teams with the best defenses and start there. Who's the DC at TCU, for example?
Your point #2 might be the most important one. Is a top-notch DC going to come here if he has no control over his staff of assistants? I would imagine that Robinson will be gone, but will RR broom any of his buddies from his WVU staff?
And even if some good candidate is willing to come here, what is his defensive philosophy, and will it mesh with the existing staff? Will he eventually be forced to run a 3-3-5 against his will, as Shafer and Robinson have allegedly been forced to do?
Unless RR is ready to let go more people than just GERG, and give a new DC total control over the composition of his staff—something I think is unlikely—then there are only two viable options: persuade Jeff Casteel to come here, or hire his DC from within the existing staff. If the latter, Bruce Tall is the most likely choice.
November 25th, 2010 at 1:58 PM ^
That's is a huge factor and one I hope DB takes out of RR's hands altogether. Would it be unprecedented for an AD to tell a coach "either they all go and you stay on as HC, or I fire you as HC and they all go anyway.....your choice. The new DC will hire his staff and you will let him run the D. Those are the terms."
I don't know if this type of thing happens, but I sure hope that the entire D staff would be new and hand picked by the incoming DC.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^
That is a common scenario being tossed around, and by itself it makes sense. However, RR has shown in the past that he is very loyal to his assistants, and I really wonder if he would willingly axe anybody. I know it sounds stupid to wonder, since if he refuses and then gets fired, all of his assistants are out of a job, not just two or three. Obviously, RR is in a very poor position in which to play a game of "chicken" with David Brandon, if it came to that.
November 25th, 2010 at 3:42 PM ^
I wonder sometimes if he wouldn't prefer to walk away and take his guys with him to a southern school. He really is in a tough spot regardless of the outcome here, IME.
November 25th, 2010 at 3:47 PM ^
I've had the same thought. As much grief as RR has gotten personally, it's also falling on his assistants, rightly or wrongly. They've never really been accepted by a large segment of the UM fan base, and it would be human nature for them to say "screw it, we're outta here" esp. if some southern school like Miami of Fl comes sniffing around. I hope that doesn't happen, but sometimes it just seems to have been cursed from the get-go.
November 25th, 2010 at 4:08 PM ^
I agree Don, I have mention in a couple of my post that Miami would be the school most likely to make a run at this staff if a change was made
November 26th, 2010 at 10:28 PM ^
*fingers crossed*
There was an interview w/ RR not long ago where he used the past tense to describe the coaches effort to correct the issues on defense; it kinda freaked me out. His next sentence used present tense, but still, freaked me out.
November 25th, 2010 at 11:38 PM ^
My Dad (a Spartan) is convinced he's going to walk since his contract is up to somewhere like Maryland. I would find that pretty shocking though unless there is some absurdly well concealed animosity with the university administration or new athletic department.
November 26th, 2010 at 12:49 AM ^
Very true Don, and have to say as I just posted, I completely agree. I really think DB will make this happen and it will be very interesting to see what RR response will be. We all know his loyalties, but is he willing to take a chance at losing his to save someone else? I don't see it happening, I see his friends gone and the incoming DC having command of the entire defense including the new defensive staff.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:20 PM ^
The only way yet another DC works is if similar to Zook last year RR hands over total control. That means the D staff he brought with him from WV gets the boot. I just cant see RR allowing that and I believe he would prefer to be fired instead of telling his guys your fired.
So the question becomes, if you cant get Harbaugh would you keep RR for a 4th year if he refused to give over DC control-tough call. IMO Brandon would be better served hiring his own coach under his own terms as the climate permits.
My preferences...
1. Harbaugh
2. RR with a new DC/Scheme
3. Brandons Man not Harbaugh
November 26th, 2010 at 11:17 AM ^
November 25th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^
As usual I am in complete agreement with Don.
November 26th, 2010 at 12:51 AM ^
Hell, I am in complete agreement with everyone on here on this subject.
November 25th, 2010 at 1:59 PM ^
Coach Cowher!
November 25th, 2010 at 2:00 PM ^
The best case scenerio being played out is to keep RR 1 more year and fire the entire defensive staff. If you fire RR you are starting all over from scratch...that is not good in the short term but could be good long term. I see keeping RR good for the long term also.
1. Top 5 offense
2. Denard = Heisman
3. 19 returning starters - those young guys will have expeirence
4. Injuries just killed this team
Bring in a proven DC, let him bring his own staff and scheme. The proof is in the pudding and numbers dont like on the defense. If your not doing your job, here is your pink slip.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:05 PM ^
but I really don't want this to turn into another fire or keep RR thread. Lets stick to the defense.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:44 PM ^
The problem with this scenario (which many are supporting) is that an "elite" DC will not come to Michigan for a short-term contract with the head coach on the hot seat. It is an absurd gamble and not one that someone with options is likely to take. Case in point: The Chicago Bears were basically in this position before the 2010 season--a head coach on the hot seat, and near the end of his contract, was told to replace his coaches. They looked high and low for an offensive coordinator, were turned down by several candidates, and had to settle for their last choice, Mike Martz, who was dying to get back to the NFL; on defense, they ended up promoting Marinelli to DC after previously stating that they would do this under no condition. In the end it was their only choice, and they looked like fools. I could be wrong, but don't expect an "elite" DC coming to Ann Arbor until Rodriquez gets an extension.
November 25th, 2010 at 3:13 PM ^
out pretty good so far for the 7-3 Bears. Also, would maybe a top notch D-Coordinator come with the potential to get a look a the head job if RR gets fired? Casteel for example could come in and make a case to be RRs replacement should RR go. This all being said, I truly believe RR is the man. He has a long history as being literally a football innovater, and ALL signs point to positive improvement in the coming years, both offensively and defensively.
November 25th, 2010 at 5:11 PM ^
Lovie Smith ended up becoming de facto defensive coordinator. I don't think you want to see this scenario in Ann Arbor, regardless of how brilliant you think Rich is.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:00 PM ^
November 26th, 2010 at 6:18 PM ^
Would I ever want to see Jim Herrmann come back here. The man was the beneficiary of superior talent. he didnt' game plan well or make changes fast enough when the game dictated so.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:04 PM ^
If RR can't snake-oil a big-name D-coordinator -- in other words, if he takes, say, a promising but relatively unfamiliar LB coach from somewhere -- the fans/alumni/blogs will go nuts, no? There's gonna be a lot of pressure on RR to land a "name" guy, for better or worse.
November 25th, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^
agreed...he must bring in a proven big name coach to turn things around and to take the heat off....the heat is from the opinions of the media scum. They have been out to get RR since day one.
November 25th, 2010 at 11:42 PM ^
I would say most alumni really just want a significant change since GERG isn't working, Even if he talent searched out a position coach, I'm gonna guess most people who care will just assume "it better work, or your ass is on the line"