OT: Jourdan Lewis commenting on fighting in hockey
January 8th, 2018 at 9:57 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 10:12 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 11:48 PM ^
LOL
...zero clue why people sat/kneeled (which I disagree with, but at least took the time to LEARN about and ASK why).
January 8th, 2018 at 11:46 PM ^
How come anytime race comes up someone says you can't talk about race?
Maybe you and folks who agree with you should engage in the discussion of race...just a thought.
January 8th, 2018 at 8:33 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 8:57 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 10:18 PM ^
January 9th, 2018 at 1:39 PM ^
And the argument is, that absent the threat of a fight, the checks and collisions that cause 90% of the concussions will go up, and total concussions will be >100% of what they are with fighting.
January 8th, 2018 at 8:47 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 8:59 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 8:56 PM ^
Reminder: it’s cool to not have an opinion on some things, people. Refreshing even.
January 8th, 2018 at 8:57 PM ^
Georges Laraque and Donald Brashear were the top 2 fighters in the NHL for over a decade, both black.
January 8th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 9:19 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 9:50 PM ^
Agree on all counts, and it's a good articulation of the argument.
The other side of the coin is that it's been a part of the sport since the beginning. It's a sport that's developed in a certain way for over a century, and fighting is a part of that. I don't think you're wrong, and I don't think Lewis is wrong at face value, but it's a completely ahistorical, arguably red herring argument about hockey as a sport.
January 8th, 2018 at 11:01 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 11:50 PM ^
Exactly.
The NBA changed its dress code because players were DRESSING like "THUGS"...not fighting, what they were wearing. The NHL has allowed guys to beat each others brains in forever.
Again, I'm not picking a side, I'm just saying I see the point. That's what some of you can't do...you can see the point without agreeing with it.
It's clear as day where the man is coming from.
January 8th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^
I'm not sure he's 100% wrong.
There is a differing standard - outside of outright goonery like Claude Lemieux, hockey fights are an everyday occurence that rarely result in serious fines for either party. There are many reasons for this - the amount of padding that's worn, the history of the game, etc. Racial disparity may not be the main one, but like it or not it is inimical to our cultural lenses so it's still present as a factor, however small.
No one is saying you're racist if you like hockey and dislike b-ball, but the fact is that a scrum in the NHL would likely elicit gleeful water-cooler chatter whereas a fight in the NFL or NBA might well trigger negative reactions from the same crowd that then says this is why they don't take their kids to the games anymore.
JD might not be right about hockey but I can see where he's coming from as a professional athlete who's also a black guy.
January 8th, 2018 at 10:17 PM ^
It would bring out a different reaction in the NBA because it's not actually an integral part of how the sport is played. Fighting has always existed in hockey and is seen as an integral part of the game. It has not existed and is not seen as an integral part of the game of basketball. A fight under the basket stands out because it's abnormal.
January 8th, 2018 at 9:06 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 10:20 PM ^
^^^ This. What gets you in trouble in hockey is not knowing how to control your stick or taking cheap shots. If not for that, no need for a fight. In the pros there are two types of fights: professional fights and fights due to cheap shots. the second type are the policing type that people mentioned (protecting the star) and it's to prevent cheap shots, not legit hits.
The second type is the professional fighters putting on a show to get their teams riled up. These guys fought each other and rarely got seriously hurt. This type of fighting is way down in my opinion in today's hockey game because the league has tried to get rid of the guys who were primarily fighters and they really have no place in the game today. Opening up the game has made it difficult for pure fighters to play in the NHL. If you can't skate and contribute, there's no real place for you these days. There are a few guys around still, but they're rare. John Scott could barely skate and was only out there to fight. Not much point unless both teams have a guy like this.
January 9th, 2018 at 7:38 AM ^
1. Why can't NHL refs just enforce against cheap shots? Seems that all other major pro hockey leagues around the world do it this way.
2. NFL players are fully padded, and can do just as much damage with cheap shots as NHL players can do. Yet no culture of enforcing against cheap shots (which have always been there) with fights ever emerged. Seems that it has been enforced with 15 yard penalties, and in addition (more recently) targeting ejections.
January 9th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^
January 9th, 2018 at 7:02 AM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 9:12 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 9:34 PM ^
You mean it's easy for you to see his point. I'd see your point if you were'nt wearing a hat.
January 8th, 2018 at 9:34 PM ^
You mean it's easy for you to see his point. I'd see your point if you were'nt wearing a hat.
January 8th, 2018 at 9:16 PM ^
Fighting in hockey is only stupid when it doesn't mean anything. The problem is, hockey fights have decreased in long-term meaning since they were awesome in the 90s and earlier with fights like the Wings and Avs used to have.
Turtle Day wasn't just entertaining because of the physical fight itself, but because it was a rivalry in which a player on one team crossed a line and the other team wanted to unleash payback in front of their home crowd. That was an known and satisfying sports history that was taking place right in front of us, and that's why they live on through YouTube.
Fighting now is mostly stupid and shouldn't really even happen as often as it does anymore because it generally doesn't have that exciting storyline. The only thing that really ever comes close is when the Capitals and Penguins brawl. Even the Hawks/Wings rivalry has died down because of dumb realignment (Thanks Gary Bettman).
Fighting should stay a hockey thing. There is a reason it was kept in hockey and not in other sports like football and basketball. I don't see racial reasons behind this (people who make these rules could have them, but I don't see them). I love Jourdan Lewis, but have to disagree with him. Fighting is allowed in hockey because it just works with the flow of the game a lot better than other sports, basketball players are unprotected, and football is violent enough as is. Also, as another poster said, you are holding a weapon in hockey, and you better have to pay for it if you use it violently.
Just my $0.02.
January 8th, 2018 at 9:22 PM ^
I haven't thought about this long enough to have anything useful to add about the racial issues, but I'll say that I'm one of the perhaps minority hockey fans who thinks that fighting is overrated. An occasional epochal fight like Lemieux-McCarty is one thing, but in general I just feel like it slows the game down. I will say that today's game is much better than the 1970s when fighting was pro forma, and expected.
January 8th, 2018 at 9:28 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 9:35 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 10:07 PM ^
As a swimmer I would love for fighting to be allowed!!
January 8th, 2018 at 10:38 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 9:36 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 9:45 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 10:02 PM ^
oppressed white people.
January 8th, 2018 at 10:28 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 10:50 PM ^
How would that comment make sense at all in relation to basketball? Fights rarely happen. It seems like you were unable to think closely about this comment.
January 8th, 2018 at 11:51 PM ^
...and what would that comment be? I'm honestly curious. What is the comment?
January 9th, 2018 at 7:44 AM ^
I guess you did not notice that he is being crucified for his comment in this very thread.
So if a white guy made a similar comment about a predominantly black sport, and lots of people "crucified" him for it, then....that would be, you know, equal treatment, right?
January 8th, 2018 at 9:59 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 10:03 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 10:18 PM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 11:52 PM ^
Don't be surprised...
January 8th, 2018 at 10:22 PM ^
Bring back the Malice in the Palace!
January 8th, 2018 at 10:41 PM ^
January 9th, 2018 at 7:47 AM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 10:47 PM ^
So I definitely think that JD's initial point is a bit ridiculous. Hockey being a majority white sport isn't *the* reason there's fighting allowed in hockey, as some of the commentators here have been all to point out.
However, I think some people here are being very ostrich-like* with regards to racial bias and media coverage.
There's definitely a racial bias in the way we look at black and white athletes and aggression. An NBA player cheapshots someone, he's labeled a thug. Todd Bertuzzi breaks a guys next, and he maintains another 10 years in the NHL.
Another example is that both the NBA and NHL have had incidents where players entered the stands and engaged physically with fans.
In the NBA, it's the Malice at the Palace, and players involved received suspensions of season-ending, 30, 15, 6, 5, and 1 game for 4 players. Some of the players were even charged with assault and battery. Newspapers writing retrospectives about it have headlines like "An Oral History of the Scariest Moment in NBA History"
In the NHL, it's just the shoe incident, and the players involved received suspensions of 8, 6, and 6 games. No assault/battery charges, and when the New York Times writes about it 30 years later, you get the headline, "Over the Glass, and Into Hockey Lore". Hell Mike Milbury has gotten a GM position, and has been a mainstay TV analyst for almost a decade now.
*yes I know that's just a myth
January 9th, 2018 at 5:37 AM ^
January 8th, 2018 at 11:09 PM ^