Breakdown Sports: Shea Patterson Film Breakdown and How He Fits
December 8th, 2017 at 9:45 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 11:31 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 5:29 PM ^
Shea Patterson is Jim Harbaugh as a collegiate quarterback. Go back and look at Harbaugh and then compare that to this kid. He is what Harbaugh was. So, guess why the coach wants this kid? He reminds him of him.
December 8th, 2017 at 9:47 AM ^
I've noticed a lot of people saying "this is a no brainer" or "there is no downside to this." I don't necessarily agree. There is no denying that Patterson has a very high ceiling, but this move is not without risks. Here are some tweets I had recently regarding this.
One thing I've read a lot is rivals "worrying" about the impact Patterson would have on Peters, and Michigan fans countering with "meritocracy". I'm often in favor of constant competition, I think athletes need to thrive on it, but I don't think the rival "worry" is unwarranted
— Space Coyote (@SpaceCoyoteBDS) December 7, 2017
I think you take the Speight situation. Speight wasn't afraid of competition, what he wanted was a display in confidence from his coach that they trusted him to be the guy. They trusted him enough to say "competition against yourself is enough to fuel you to be the best".
— Space Coyote (@SpaceCoyoteBDS) December 7, 2017
Not everyone is unendingly motivated by looking over their shoulder, and not everyone is unendingly endured to try to work their way up. I don't agree with "everyone gets a trophy", but people are motivated differently. So I hope Peters is fully on board with this
— Space Coyote (@SpaceCoyoteBDS) December 7, 2017
Peters has significant long-term potential, and long-term, the program is ultimately best served developing their own guys. Patterson may be the best for 2018 or 2019. But long-term, Peters may be better motivated looking over his shoulder (McCaffrey) than chasing (Patterson)
— Space Coyote (@SpaceCoyoteBDS) December 7, 2017
From my experience: if I was in an honest battle for playing time, it motivated me like hell. If I was a backup that got pulled on first mistake, it made me play awful. If I was in an dishonest "battle" (one I knew I'd win) it only made me feel that coaches lacked trust
— Space Coyote (@SpaceCoyoteBDS) December 7, 2017
That's all anecdotal. But I see myself as a guy that is always competing (too often according to my wife) and that competition is the main reason for my successes. But dishonest competition can be harmful
— Space Coyote (@SpaceCoyoteBDS) December 7, 2017
December 8th, 2017 at 9:51 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 9:55 AM ^
I do agree I want competitive players. I have no doubt if Harbaugh is going through with this he believes it's best for the team. I also have no doubt if it was absolutely a no brainer Harbaugh certainly would have reached out to Patterson, not the other way around. It comes with it's risks and potential rewards, but it certainly isn't without risk.
Harbaugh is doing what he thinks is best to win, and I have no issue with that.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:18 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^
I do believe Patterson reached out to Harbaugh before Speight made the decision to transfer. There were two reasons Harbaugh did not reach out. One: Speight Two: Waiver to play this year. Here's a risk for you if you want one. Patterson to osu.msu.psu.wsu. There's your risk.
If Patterson is not all that, then you have Peters with experience backing up. I think Harbaugh felt pretty good with Peters and Speight backing him up. He did not know Patterson wanted to come to Michigan and he had no room anyways. Room opened up and he knew Patterson wanted to come to Michigan and blam there is your no brainer.
I will make it real simple how i feel about getting Shea Patterson. He gives Michigan the best QB in the big ten. I really feel it is that simple. I also think Harbaugh feels the same way and anyone who thinks they have a better feel for the QB position then Jim Harbaugh......uhh, well you better have some lofty crendentials.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:24 PM ^
Ole Miss only granted him a permission to contact waiver about a week ago. It would have been tampering for Harbaugh to reach out before then. Even with Patterson making the first move, there could only be indirect contact until then.
December 8th, 2017 at 9:52 AM ^
I love competition. I don't think it's ever been claimed that I'm anything other than extremely competitive. That's why I've spent way too much time on this blog arguing way too many topics, including topics that are likely no win.
And overall, I love that Harbaugh is so competitive and asks his players to be so competitive. I do agree that competition tends to bring out the best in people and that it is often best for the team as a whole. But there are multiple ways to treat competition, and players react to different types of competition differently. So there is always a risk there. Call it "concern trolling" if you will, but that's my experience as a player and a coach. It's a fine line to walk, with a lot of gray area. But it does exist. I loved how JDue (Read Your Guard) put it on twitter
100% agree.
— Due# (@JDue51) December 7, 2017
QB is different than any other position on the team & everyone on the team knows it. Once a guy wins the job, he's regarded as "THE guy" by teammates. They know "the guy" was forged in fire.
Trying to temper with fire again & again makes things brittle.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:07 AM ^
WE HAVE 2 SCHOLARSHIP QBs on the roster at the moment!!!! (with a grand total of 4 games experience)... We don't even have a guarantee that Milton and/or Doyle won't flip at the last moment (unlikely but possible given Crootin').
We NEED a 3rd scholarship QB that is not a true freshman. Given that need, why would you not go after the best talent available.
My hunch from listening to Sam Webb is that Peters was not happy about the intitial rumblings about Patterson / Eason coming to AA and Michigan told Patterson they were not interested.
The Speight transfer has changed the dynamics and it would now be irresponsible to not bring in an experienced QB. Either Peters recognizes this and signed off on Patterson coming on board or Harbaugh decided that the team having 3 QBs was a must regardless of potentially hurt feelings.
Good analysis by the way, thanks for sharing with the board!!!
December 8th, 2017 at 10:19 AM ^
The reality is, though, if Peters isn't happy with the situation, he could transfer after Spring or Fall camp, putting you back in the same situation, but with zero snaps taken at Michigan. Of course, if Peters transferred after fall camp, it was likely because he lost to Patterson.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:25 AM ^
season for the team because he doesn't want a 2nd QB to compete with, then let him go.
He just lived through a season where Michigan started 3 QBs in at least 3 games - he himself got hurt and missed the biggest game of the season. How could he not be worried about QB depth going into 2018? The QB is part of the team, right?
My guess is that he is a team player who expects to win the job regardless of who he is competing with. He has a chance to put himself into the lead during the Bowl game and I fully expect him to take full advantage.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^
Also, I don't expect Patterson to be here long, at all. He is an absolute one-and-done if all these 2019(!!!) NFL Draft projections have any merit. They are projecting him as a first rounder just like they did with Darnold last year. I see him and Jefferson coming in together, and probably leaving together.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:09 PM ^
And then Peters has to sit out the year anyways. That makes zero sense especially if Patterson is one and done. Peters has to up root, go to where?, and then compete there also. QB's that transfer usually go to better teams not worse. Stidham, Mayfield and on and on. I think you are really selling Peters short on this one and he gains absolutely nothing by transferring.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:42 PM ^
Now if he loses the job to Patterson in 2018 and is fighting with Patterson and McCaffrey for the job in 2019 - then I could see him looking around (and would have no issue with him doing that).
December 8th, 2017 at 12:46 PM ^
In this hypothetical, he'd be a grad-transfer though, wouldn't he?
2018 is RS SO
2019 is RS JR
Who knows if he follows the path of Speight or Malzone (Graduate in 3, with 2 left to play).
December 8th, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^
He was an EE and probably takes spring and / or summer term classes - so he can probably make that work a la Malzone.
In either case, I think he has a good chance to win the job in 2018 and a great chance to be starting in 2019 regardless (if Patterson jumps to the NFL next year).
December 8th, 2017 at 4:30 PM ^
Very good points and Milton is RAW. He is crazy talented, but he is a "project". I was impressed with his physical gifts as an athlete on his Senior film, but he is no where near polished. Unless the kid has the ability to handle a steep learning curve, he will be no where near ready to see the field for 2-3 years.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:37 PM ^
Doyle might be a bit more polished but it is still asking a LOT for him to step in against Wisconsin, PSU, OSU, etc... next year if our first two get hurt!
December 8th, 2017 at 10:14 AM ^
There is a ton of upside to taking Shea, and it really all hinges on how Peters handles it. If Peters gets fired up and shows out in the bowl, gearing up for a massive 3-way QB competition, then this team will be in a much better position.
But there is definite potential for it to backfire, as it’s totally possible that Shea can’t adapt to the offensive scheme, the team underperforms next year and, combined with this whole ordeal creates some major tension in the locker room, Peters is rubbed too far in the wrong way and transfers, leaving us with only RS Soph DM and RS Frosh Mixon in a make-or-break 2019 season. That’s a doomsday scenario that isn’t outside the realm of possibility.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:14 AM ^
that Peters and McCaffrey get injured and we have a walk on / true freshman as our QB for the 2nd half of the season.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:18 AM ^
Obviously Coach has thought a hell lot more about this than any of us, and he's doing what he thinks is best. But it is a delicate situation, and has risks, which is all some of us are saying. Clearly Harbaugh thinks the upside outweighs the potential downsides.
December 8th, 2017 at 7:57 PM ^
I'm sorry, but redshirt sophomore Dylan McCaffrey as the starter is your doomsday scenario? If that is doomsday what do you call this year? I guess I am biased, I think McCaffrey will end up being the best qb we have had in a while.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:28 AM ^
This year was not a normal year. Last year Speight won the competition and was THE guy. This year he won it again but went down to injury, in which case it was next man up. O'Korn was the guy until he abundantly demonstrated he wasn't up to the task and Harbaugh replaced him at a time when it made the most sense (three games against lesser teams).
I haven't seen anything that makes me think that Harbaugh makes QBs compete week-to-week during the season. The competition happens during spring and fall and then establishes the pecking order and done (perhaps why Peters checked out initially). The fact that he stuck with Speight despite lackluster performance prior to injury this year confirms that for me.
Speight probably left because Patterson was in the works and he wasn't going to beat him in spring/fall camp. I don't have a problem with that. Will Peters do the same? We'll see, but a coach is ultimately judged by wins and losses, and this season's QB weakness will be a strength next year.
If a talented OL transferred in I don't think too many people would be worried about anyone's feelings.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^
Speight left because he was not going to beat out Brandon Peters. Michigan was not going to bring in Patterson with Speight there. Speight knew they were leaning towards Peters and rightfully so. Peters is a better QB than Speight. I think Patterson is a better college QB than Peters. Much like Manzel being way better than a lot of QB's that are in the nfl while they were in college. Example J.T. Barrett voted offensive player of the year in the big ten at QB. I highly doubt this guy even gets drafted unless he wants to go play in Canada.
Patterson is way better than J.T. Barrett. He makes a lot of plays with his legs and extends plays that Peters just can not at this point. Peters has size and may throw better from the pocket, but Patterson will extend plays and run around. This will get him killed in the nfl, but this is college ball and he is going to kill teams playing for Michigan.
Peters will get a lot of playing time next year also. They are both going to play. Michigan will have several games to get the back up in for extended playing time. I see Patterson and Peters both going to the nfl.
To be honest I have no idea why this is being debated because the reality is Patterson will be on Michigan's team next year and so will Brandon Peters. Who will be starting?. Nobody know's at this time. Is the team going to be better with Patterson on the team?. Stupid Question. Is the team better with Anderson and Van Jefferson?. Another stupid question.
I see a lot of buckshit fans who think they will be ranked in the top four next year and #1 in the big ten. I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!! I think the Michigan Wolverines will be the favorites. Thanks to Patterson, Anderson and Van Jefferson.
December 8th, 2017 at 8:55 PM ^
if Speight stayed, he has the inside track to be the starting QB for 2018 season. The fact Harbaugh was kind of caught off-guard when Speight told him that he plans to transfer speak volume that Harbaugh wasn't pleased with the QB situation. Peters hasn't played well enough to show that he can take Michigan into the next level thus far.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:47 AM ^
Look you bring in the best talent you can every year, whether you recruit it or find a transfer or two. If Patterson comes in and starts and leads the team to a championship everyone will be happy and it will help in recruiting. If Patterson doesn't come in next year we would only have one QB with experience, which is a total of 4 games. Then a RS Freshman and two true Freshman, one who is extremely raw. That is not a great depth chart at QB.
We need more depth there and we have a great chance to bring in the top QB from the 2016 class who was a 5*. You never pass up that oppurtuninty because it might hurt one guys feelings on the team. You bring him in for more depth and to compete and the best player will play. If we loose Peters over it our QB depth really doesn't change from what we had if he didn't come, other then we would probably have a better starting QB.
Patterson is a talent, he does need a little refining, but we have the coaching to get that done. He could be a huge differene maker for us next year.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^
Yeah, this was my take as well regarding competition. People keep assuming someone who doesn't want to deal with a lack of overt confidence by their HC is a quitter, as opposed to a human being who doesn't necessarily want to keep jumping through hoops. People will say "hell, at my job I'm always worried about losing my job and that motivates me to succeed", which (a) good for you if you can work in that environment, but (b) not everyone wants or needs that type of encouragement. I've worked in places where every performance review is "you better work harder or you're shit-canned", and that is told to basically everyone who works there, and they are surprised with the massive turnover. Speight leaving always felt like he knew he wasn't going to get a fair shake at the starting QB, and so why waste his last year fighting from underneath after 2 years of showing he was the best option.
Patterson is a talented guy; I still feel like he's going to have a fair number of stumbles early on and the same people talking about meritocracy (that loaded word people throw around when they don't want to accept that the world is typically biased in any number of spoken and unspoken ways) will complain about him being overrated and wanting a change.
December 8th, 2017 at 4:26 PM ^
Patterson just looks and acts like a QB. Passes the eye test with ease. I love Peters too. Calm and cool. My concern is that Peters didn't seem to have great arm strength. Perhaps that is because he has more touch than Speight or JOK.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:41 PM ^
You didn't see a ton of it because he was a bit shy to pull the trigger and the staff kept the play book vanilla for him.
However, when you see him next year or in 2019 (whenever he is the started) you will start to see that arm talent shine through.
December 8th, 2017 at 7:45 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 7:46 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 9:49 AM ^
Manziel-type player without the Manziel-type issues? Yeah, that'd be OK.
Thanks for linking this (and all the analysis that went into your original article). With all the off-field drama that surrounded/surrounds Manziel, it's sometimes hard to remember what a terrific QB he was. Patterson compares well on the field.
And it seems that Patterson would do well under Harbaugh's tutelage, and with Peters, Mixon, McCaffrey providing him stiff competition. This would be a great end-of-season development!
December 8th, 2017 at 9:56 AM ^
I don't think he's at Manziel's level as a player. Certainly I don't view him as athletic as Manziel was. But they do have similar styles. The better on-field comp that Michigan fans know may be Tate Forcier with a stronger arm, and again, without the off-field issues.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:04 AM ^
I did not think you were asserting Patterson was quite ready for a Heisman, but plays a similar style compared to Manziel. Howevah, I think the Tate Forcier comparable isn't going to engender much love around these parts - even though I agree that many of Tate's difficulties were related to maturity rather than ability. I see where you're coming from on that one, and would put Patterson somewhere between those comparables.
The bottom line is that a capable gunslinger would be a welcome counterpoint to Peters, who I also think has a high ceiling (and is underappreciated around these parts).
December 8th, 2017 at 10:09 AM ^
minority. I would peg it at 5-10% of the fan base whose shouting makes it seem like 50% of the fanbase.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:21 AM ^
as much as acknowledging that he has only ever shown the ability to serviceably lead a very stripped down offensive gameplan, and very basic passing attack. The bowl game will be huge in terms of showing what he can do with a fully open playbook.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:28 AM ^
that Peters is already a bust and that the 2018 season is doomed. I thought those could be rival fans but a few of them had significant point totals.
My theory in life is that 10-15% of the people in any community are functionally insane. Meaning that they can seemingly live a normal life until any minutae of trouble or stress hits and they go full bonkers.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^
about Peters in his mind that bringing in Patterson would be insurance in case the former doesn't improve enough. And we're not talking about just any QB transfer here. This guy was the #4 rated player overall in the 2016 class. That's like a Drew Henson (not comparing them though in skills) level.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:12 AM ^
doesn't get me very hype
December 8th, 2017 at 10:36 AM ^
Give him more experience, a stronger arm and more interest in learning and we'd have very fond memories of his play.
My question is more about Patterson's NFL prospects. He's what, 6'1"? I'd think he'd need to do a lot more than show an ability to improvise and make plays with his feet in order to get drafted. More like having full command of our fairly sophisticated offense. In other words, will he have to look less like a Tate Forcier before he leaves?
December 8th, 2017 at 10:56 AM ^
about his NFL future. Have been many QB's that were incredible in college and fit their systems great, leading their teams to great heights that never panned out in the NFL, such as a Tebow did at Florida. If Patterson comes to UM and leads us to an NC, won't care if he never really pans out in the NFL.
December 8th, 2017 at 11:15 AM ^
after next season. I know that's his plan, but I think it's more of a goal.
December 12th, 2017 at 11:38 AM ^
I find the Tate Forcier comparisons woefully short of reality. I understand the perceived need to compare him to someone who previously wore our helmet, but in this case that greatly mis-sets the expectations created by the forced analogy. Short-ish, fast-ish white guy who runs around and does some unscripted stuff? Okay. But that's where it ends. Patterson is far closer to Manziel at this level of football than he is to Forcier.
I know I'm swimming against the Brian and Space Coyote tides here, but I'll stick with that position until I see more evidence otherwise.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:50 PM ^
I don't necessarily disagree he may be similar to Manziel. Although, I don't think Patterson qualifies as a pure "dual-threat" QB the way Manziel did.
Interestingly, Patterson reminds me a lot of Alex Smith (albeit, a smaller version). Smith was a great athlete at Utah who could out-athlete many NCAA teams with his speed and skill. He was a great weapon in that Utah offense because he could hit you with his arm and his legs; and, he's translated some of that to the pros (particularly in KC moreso than SF).
It would not surprise me that - if Patterson comes to UM - our offense looks eerily similar to the Utah offense Urban and Smith ran together. Could be interesting...
(Quick Edit: Although their games remind me of each other, I think Patterson brings a swagger and attitude that Smith just doesn't really demonstrate - - - at least publically. I am excited about the possibility to have some arrogance on the sideline again)
December 8th, 2017 at 3:35 PM ^
in the pocket, pump fake, run, then throw. What's with this slo-mo qb thing, I don't want a Meyer QB but lets get a fast guy back there who can juke people and add an entirely new angle for opposing defenses to plan for.
December 8th, 2017 at 9:52 AM ^
I shouldn't have read/watched that. Calm down, don't get excited, don't get excited.
Oh God, I'm excited.
December 8th, 2017 at 9:56 AM ^
"Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold day! Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold day!..."
December 8th, 2017 at 9:58 AM ^
But I think it's also worth noting the flaws in his game. This isn't necessarily a slam dunk, particularly when trying to work into a new offense. I do still think, even with Patterson, there is a competition with Peters at least in the fall, and a warranted one at that.