An observation on the size of the Qbs for Meyer’s national title teams.
His first title team had Chris Leak as a starter, but used Tebow extensively on third downs and near the goalline. Tebow would helm the second title team. Tebow was 6'2" 235 lbs.
JT Barrett is 6'1" 225 and Jones is 6'"5 249. Meyer's system,it seems, works best when it has a big, strong, QB who can absorb a lot of punishment. As seen by Miller's mauling by MSU it doesn't work quite as well(although still extremely successful) with a slender, less bruising QB.
I wonder if this explains in part why Meyer's spread is so successful? Rodriguez and the Kelly/Helfrich are pretty good offensive minds themselves, but they haven't gotten over the hump vs physical defenses like Meyer has. Could the size of the QB be all the difference? Or is this a fallacious supposition on my part?
January 14th, 2015 at 5:06 PM ^
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January 14th, 2015 at 5:35 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 5:07 PM ^
The OSU offense generally uses more power running from spread formations than Arizona's and Oregon's offenses. There weren't many designed runs for Jones, whereas with Tebow, he was often running designed plays. It's nice to have a QB that is a tree trunk but I don't think it's a prerequisite for Meyer, Barrett led them to the playoff anyway.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:13 PM ^
I know it isn't a prerequisite. (Miller, Braxton) But all three of his national titles were helmed or aided by having big back-sized Qbs.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:22 PM ^
It's a fair hypothesis, but I think it goes beyond QB to the whole team. He likes guys that are powerful (maybe possibly big) and fast at every position (not a bad plan!) whereas some of the other coaches who utilize a heavily run-based spread don't really value the power part and focus on speed.
The easy narrative for Monday's game was that Oregon claimed to be a physical team, but then got manhandled as the game went on. Oregon is a physical team...certainly moreso than much of the Pac-12 and they were tough enough to dominate FSU. Ohio St. was just more physical as the game went on...Elliott's running in particular, but also to your point, Jones was such a behemoth.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:37 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 6:01 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 5:08 PM ^
get Shane Morris a sammich.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:19 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 5:20 PM ^
a wheel barrel.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:16 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 5:11 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 5:13 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 5:17 PM ^
I think the OL/TE/FB had at least as much to do with their running success as Elliot
January 14th, 2015 at 5:22 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 5:30 PM ^
True--it clearly wasn't all line yardage
January 14th, 2015 at 5:25 PM ^
It's well worth noting that the OSU offense of now is quite different from the Tebow era in Florida. Specifically, running backs get a lot more carries (consecutive 1,000+ yard rushers at OSU and none at any other Meyer stop), and receivers get a lot fewer. Herman has changed things up.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:56 PM ^
Chip Kelly sabotaged the Ducks by recommending Herman to Urban Meyer.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/college-football-playoff-ohio-state-o…
January 14th, 2015 at 5:15 PM ^
Otherwise he wouldn't start Miller and Leak over bigger guys and he'd be recruiting a bunch of LB-looking athletes to play QB.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:20 PM ^
To be fair, both of those examples you pointed out were starting over true freshmen. It is really difficult to start a true freshman QB no matter what system you run.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:21 PM ^
that Jones being the third stringer means that Meyer is a terrible judge of talent.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:22 PM ^
Both were encumbant starters when he took over at UF and OSU.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:37 PM ^
OK -- Miller was 6'2 185, but John Brantly (Florida recruit under Meyer) was 6'3 190 and Torrance Gibson (Meyer's '15 recruit) is 6'4 195. Pretty similar.
So, while it's fair to say that Meyer values a bigger/heavier QB than most spread coaches, I don't think it's necessarily a bigger is better situation.
Meyer is looking for the best QB he can find. He wants speed and size and throwing power and accuracy, just like every other coach on the planet. Meyer's "ideal cocktail" of attributes might be a little different, with more emphasis on size than most, but reducing it down to just size is an exaggerated oversimplification.
Meyer on Denard Robinson:
"I thought he was fantastic," Meyer said, according to ESPN.com. "He's a good young man. We wanted him that badly, because we thought he could be our curve ball. I thought he could be a quarterback because he has a nice throwing motion, and he's a ridiculous athlete."
January 14th, 2015 at 5:45 PM ^
But one cannot fail to notice that he had his greatest success with bigger guys playing QB. I believe that it played some part in their success.How much I don't know.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:57 PM ^
You're getting by on a technicality with Miller, who also had an unbeaten season and then you're ignoring Alex Smith, who is pretty average size-wise for a QB.
One of your best examples went unmentioned - Josh Harris who weights around 240 lb at 6'1
Another big time Meyer QB recruit is Brian Johnson, who was about 6'1 210.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=14781&draftyear…
Does Meyer want his QBs to have a frame more like a RB than most coaches? Yes. But, he'll take talent over size any day, and the guy could certainly win games with Drew Brees at QB too.
January 14th, 2015 at 6:13 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 5:15 PM ^
As seen by Miller's mauling by MSU it doesn't work quite as well(although still extremely successful) with a slender, less bruising QB.
Didn't Miller only lose two games total in his two years as QB of that offense? I'm not sure you can draw the conclusion you do based upon one game. Meyer's system works because it works.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:21 PM ^
Barrett and Jones have. The fact is that his most successful teams at UF and OSU have had bigger QBs involved. Is that merely concidence or does it give his offense an extra level of physicality that it doesn't have with a Leak or Miller?
January 14th, 2015 at 5:23 PM ^
To be fair Miller went undefeated ( I guess Jones can claim that too but he's played fewer games). I think Meyer is flexible with QBs and can win with different types as long as they're mobile.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:37 PM ^
Saying Miller didn't win a title is little disengeous when he quarterbacked a team that went undefeated and would have played for the national title (and been favored), without the sanctions.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:47 PM ^
A 8-3 Michigan team with it's senior QB playing out of position due to an injury almost beat Miller and OSU at home. It's far from a given that OSU would have beaten an ND team blessed with good fortune.
January 14th, 2015 at 6:10 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 7:39 PM ^
wrong game
January 14th, 2015 at 7:08 PM ^
Is that merely concidence or does it give his offense an extra level of physicality that it doesn't have with a Leak or Miller?
What?. Meyer did win a title with Leak. You're acting like that season Tebow was the every-down guy and Leak was the change-of-pace QB. It was the other way around.
In any event, all of Meyer's teams have won as a result of a complete dominance in the trenches. OSU was no match for Florida's defensive line in 2006, and Oregon could do nothing against OSU's offensive line on Monday. Meyer would have won with a Denard-type at QB on either of those teams.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:16 PM ^
Speight is 6' 6" 230. Were golden
January 14th, 2015 at 5:54 PM ^
Just like Navarre The Track Star
January 14th, 2015 at 10:49 PM ^
and danced his way through minefields after catching a "double pass"* from Breaston against Minnesota in 2003.
*Yes, I know that the first "pass" from Navarre to Breaston was technically a lateral.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:19 PM ^
Don't forget that Urban recruited Cam Newton to Florida to take over for Tebow before Cam decided to steal computers out of dorm rooms...
January 14th, 2015 at 5:24 PM ^
Another monster at QB who ran the spread.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:28 PM ^
Oh I'm not critiquing Urban- rather, Cam is another data point supporting OP's premise about thicker QBs running Urban's system the best. Cardale Jones was in Urban's first recruiting class so maybe we're seeing the system that Urban truly prefers to run come to fruition.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:21 PM ^
This is an interesting observation that I had never considered before. That being said, I think "all the difference" is an extreme take. Let us not forget that the OSU defense limited Oregon to only 20 pts even with the OSU offense turning the ball over four times.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:22 PM ^
January 14th, 2015 at 6:38 PM ^
He can have one of my asses.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:23 PM ^
Mariotta statistically had a good day, the difference was Ohio State's offensive and defensive lines controlling the run game. Maybe from a injury standpoint there might be an advantage to having a bigger QB, but I don't think it is a requirement to match up against physical defenses. Having a physical RB and o-line is what matters for combating a physical defense.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:26 PM ^
Denard-sized QB win a national title. The spreads that have won national titles have all had bigger QBs starting or playing significant roles in the offense.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:25 PM ^
And yet his best QB was quite possibly Alex Smith on an undefeated Utah team.
Guy never had a 1000 yard running back, then look what happens at OSU when he goes there. Urban can flat out make his personnel work.
Coach em up Jim.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:32 PM ^
I also think he wants to spread you out so he can pound the ball up the middle, though, in contrast (for example) to RR, who looks to get to the edge of defenses. I think we can say very broadly that Meyer is more likely than RR to want a big QB and RR more likely than Meyer to want a fast one. Though of course they'll both take a Pryor or a Cam Newton.
January 14th, 2015 at 5:42 PM ^
Denard Robinson
January 14th, 2015 at 5:47 PM ^
I don't mean to suggest either guy has a hard and fast rule. Meyer would take Denard, as you say, and RR would take Tebow. This is in regard to a different position, but I remember RR saying when he got the Michigan job, "People think I want small lineman, but I'd be more than happy to take a Jake Long!"