Update on Howard/Sanderson Situation, per Brendan Quinn.
To be honest, these links could be buried in a thread somewhere (including the one I started), I think it's worth it's own thread because it establishes a level of credibility and fact finding over 100% speculation and opinion sharing. It provides an update to "where we are" at this current moment.
https://twitter.com/BFQuinn/status/1734074148970725806?t=KAXwt9PLj0jxHSeAP7RptA&s=19
Also information person Josh Henschke of Maize & Blue Review (Rivals.com) - again, sharing "what (they) know":
Check the board for an already established thread on Jalen Rose suggesting that Howard is not stepping down. The link is in the OP:
https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/jalen-rose-says-howard-did-not-and-not-stepping-down
December 11th, 2023 at 7:47 AM ^
Mods/Moms, the title or subject was supposed to be: Update on Howard/Sanderson Situation, per Brendan Quinn.
Can you please edit/change? Please/Thank you.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
From skimming the comments below, it's kinda obvious who did and who didn't read Josh Henschke's post.
So I'm copying and posting the relevant part here because it seems some posters can't be bothered to read.
M&BR can confirm through multiple sources that a physical altercation between Howard and an assistant DID NOT occur on Thursday as originally rumored.
- Howard is NOT set to step down or be fired, which has been confirmed through multiple sources.
Sources have used the words 'unequivocally false' and 'all nonsense' when asked about the rumors surrounding Howard.
And yet a bunch of pearl-clutching idiots are running wild with speculation. It seems this was quite the hitjob on Juwan Howard.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:34 AM ^
I wrote it earlier, but when was the last time you read a positive article/tweet from BQ on Michigan sports? He's a doom troll only when reporting on Leaders & Best.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:37 AM ^
BQ is on my blacklist now.
December 11th, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^
Sources have used the words 'unequivocally false' and 'all nonsense' when asked about the rumors surrounding Howard.
Well, one thing is true: Sanderson wasn't there on the bench yesterday, which is very unusual.
December 11th, 2023 at 1:45 PM ^
Oh wow, the internet was basically wrong again. How shocking. All college athletics reporting is some combination of clickbait or just parroting what the program wants out in the world as a mouthpiece. There is no serious reporting and no serious journalists operating as insiders
December 11th, 2023 at 7:52 AM ^
Good breakdown. I'm not quite sure where Quinn's post is from; it reads like he screenshot a post from somewhere else and not his own reporting, but also squares with what others have said.
It's weird that this broke now; I assume someone was talking to an "insider" who either let something slip or wanted to get Howard back into the negative spotlight because if this happened days ago and seemingly was just shouting between two adults that's basically any day that ends in -y for college athletics. Maybe the (rumored) context of it involving Jace was the inciting incident?
Anyway, I'm sure this will be handled this week and we'll all sort of forget about it and the only real "winners" will be those with fake Twitter accounts and guys charging for message board subscriptions justifying the price for another month.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:16 AM ^
The most innocuous explanation for why this broke now: someone noticed Sanderson wasn’t with the team on Sunday, asked their insider sources if something was up, and heard about the ‘altercation.’ Then a game of telephone turned it into a fist fight.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:36 AM ^
Yeah, that makes sense. It might also be unrelated; I honestly don't know if Sanderson makes every trip or if sometimes he doesn't. But yeah, this feels like a nothingburger that got blown up on a slow news night.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:57 AM ^
As far as I know, Sanderson is always on the bench.
December 11th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^
But yeah, this feels like a nothingburger that got blown up on a slow news night.
Sanderson not traveling with the team makes this seem like more than a nothingburger. He's always with the team. Whether they came to blows or not, apparently things aren't right between them, and at minimum that's not great for team chemistry.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
Also, of this entire coaching staff, including Juwan, Sanderson is the coach I would least want to lose.
December 11th, 2023 at 5:34 PM ^
Eh. Michigan could definitely find another quality S&C coach. I think those guys get overrated. Not that they're not good, but they're not irreplaceable.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:40 AM ^
Wouldn't be surprised to discover Jim Stapleton is involved somehow.
December 11th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
I hear he wanted Ron English as the basketball coach.
December 11th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
I could see it just blowing over if the team were winning or recruiting at the highest level but this looks like an NIT team with very poor personnel management
December 11th, 2023 at 7:52 AM ^
I really like Juwan, but I think that he needs to take a break, regroup, and focus on his recovery.
These altercations are going to cost him his job and given his surgery, the stress behind that comes with the job could cost him much more.
December 11th, 2023 at 7:57 AM ^
If this was a physical altercation i see where you're coming from. On the other hand nobody can be expected to never get into an argument, especially a coach.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:41 AM ^
You don't want physical violence and you want people to get along, but if people are truly passionate about what they are doing, there should be some disagreements.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
I don’t disagree. What I’m saying is that even if it wasn’t a physical altercation, these stressors could be dangerous given his heart situation
December 11th, 2023 at 11:58 AM ^
to be fair, Tom Izzo NEVER gets in arguments
December 11th, 2023 at 11:59 AM ^
But on the other, other hand, the university does not go through a review process every time coaches get into an argument. That would be absurd.
It might be that Howard's current supposed 'zero tolerance' policy (or whatever it is) means that he has a shorter leash, but when you factor in Sanderson's game absence, there sure seems to be enough smoke that we can reasonably conclude it wasn't exactly your standard run-of-the-mill disagreement.
Which means it is yet another thing that the athletic department has to deal with optically.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:05 AM ^
I don’t know what happened here for certain, but Juwan seems to have an issue with emotional regulation, both good and bad. Looking back on it, his introductory press conference was weird. It’s ok to show emotion in that circumstance, but there is also a professional “cut off line” and he far exceeded it. Additionally, he goes from 0 to 10 really fast and sometimes inexplicably. I went back and watched the TT before half play, and Juwan initially took the call in stride. Even smiling during his discussion with the official. How that got from there to a double tech ejection is just odd. It’s like he was trying to take it in stride and move on but instead he just blew up.
It seems to me that it is something he is struggling with to control. He is coming off of heart surgery. This doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Perhaps he should remain head coach and just take a health year like Coach K in 94-95.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:04 AM ^
I tried to look back through his NBA career and saw just two incidents where he got ejected from a game--one where opposing coaches agreed he had just delivered a hard foul. So--compared to you or I, for example--does he 'have an anger problem'? I don't see that some notion of him being an angry person, or one unable to deal with anger, was ever actually a thing.
If Juwan pre-emptively gets T'd up a lot now because of his rep or because he scares some official, have we begun to manufacture that rep for him? I mean, the one incident that all of this is built on was one where I have a lot of sympathy for his reaction--where someone was threatening UM players, so. . . (There's a difference between justifying Juwan's response and sympathizing with the why of it.)
So much of the reaction last night was so pathetically knee-jerk, based on so painfully little, that I thought the haters were outing themselves; a lot of dumb comments based on zip and less.
But I do think that the chain of command needs to be clarified now, and soon. And maybe--if Juwan is going to continue--it's time for Phil to move on.
I can only make comparisons to myself and my own behavior, but I've gotten angry a few times in my life, and in sorting it out realized that we're all pretty confused about male behavior. There's a lot of things to get angry ABOUT. In some sports, you can unleash it. It's ironic, in the end, that we're here talking about Juwan today, when Fran has had several incidents of wild anger in recent times. The 'angry Black male' conversation, which I've seen invoked, quickly becomes stilted, and is in fact a complicated one. In Juwan's case, I think that a small part of it might be that he's in fact really friendly and appealing; so people are shocked that he can get angry. It's then that the stereotypes--or at least the kind of behavior that people want to see in a large guy like him--get shattered, and the ugly side comes into play.
And let's face it; Black men aren't allowed to get angry. Or if someone is eager to cry foul at this formulation, let's qualify it--they are often given less latitude to do so.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:28 AM ^
Not sure what race has to do with anything but can't say I'm surprised you bring it up.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:56 AM ^
I don't see the issue as angry black man.. its that he hit someone. Hard to compare. Izzo, Fran "the saint" mccaffrey, dantonio, ... many others have severe anger issues that go way overboard imo, though i appreciate passion.
But Bobby knight and Frank Martin and Woody and Jim Leavitt got PHYSICAL and all paid the price in some form ..
He hit someone out of anger.. in response to words.. he escalated it. Not happy we kept him for strategic OR ethical reasons.
December 11th, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
Tesla,
You say absolutely the wrong thing to me and I'm gonna hit you too.
So, choose you're words and how you say them.
Escalation is normal. Wether it's love, panic, aggressiveness, protection or flat-out dislike.
First guy gets away with it...2nd guy gets flagged.
A coach is a person just like you and me.
It doesn't matter their position or pay grade when someone else starts the shit.
Hire me and pay me but don't think for a moment that you have the right to "puppet" me when you started it.
Having said all that.. I believe coach Howard is bi polar.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
I do not identify people based on skin color nor do I attach expected traits or characteristics based on it. No, I don't do it "subconsciously" either which is sure to be the next charge. Juwan Howard has been one of my literal favorite people in the world since he put on a uniform in 1992. And you are correct, for the most part he was very much in control of his emotions as a player.
But it is not a normal behavior to punch somebody in a handshake line, regardless of the circumstances. So that is the starting point. If what happened here is another physical altercation with another member of the staff, that is also very concerning. He got double-Td when he was basically back with the staff in an advisory capacity, another very unusual and possibly problematic circumstance. He is also coming off heart surgery at a very young age, which could indicate that he is not taking the stress of head coaching very well.
It may be that he needs to step back, and that we should support him if he does.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^
"I do not identify people based on skin color nor do I attach expected traits or characteristics based on it. "
Is this the next evolution of "I don't see race"?
December 11th, 2023 at 11:29 AM ^
No, it is "I don't see race."
December 11th, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^
You aren't in a position to posit either of your first 2 sentences. That is for others who know you to assess.
[I say that as the fairest, noblest person walking the face of the earth]
December 11th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
I certainly am, and I don't define myself by what others may project on to me.
December 11th, 2023 at 4:48 PM ^
at least narcissist-lite
December 11th, 2023 at 7:31 PM ^
It has nothing to do with narcissism, it’s called “not being racist.”
December 11th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
Come on, man. There was nothing weird about that press conference. We all loved it at the time. Claiming otherwise is just an exercise in revisionist history.
December 11th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
I guess it is a matter of opinion. I thought it was a little overboard in both pitch and duration.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:05 AM ^
I repeat, no "punches" where thrown
On a serious note, can the two major sports programs at Michigan stop with all the drama, fer crying out loud?!?! Now, go win the NC so we can go
December 11th, 2023 at 8:10 AM ^
Per twitter or X….which is of course always factual….It involves Sanderson. Sanderson supposedly got on Jace about not committing to a rehab program as planned. It got back to Howard who confronted Sanderson…and then they dropped the gloves and went at it……Supposedly.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:31 AM ^
Well, if both were equally at fault in this scenario, am I wrong to think having Sanderson and hopefully his son in this program is better for the program and future than Juwan and his son?
December 11th, 2023 at 8:35 AM ^
Possibly there are some issues with Sanderson, though. If he is largely in charge of rehab… is Llewelyn back or ????
It is possible that the dynamic is different than we think.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:11 AM ^
He should have been fired after the Wisconsin incident. This is embarrassing for the university
December 11th, 2023 at 8:24 AM ^
Not sure why you are getting downvoted...i don't necessarily agree with you, but it is certainly not a downvote worth take to say that a head coach who physically assaulted another head coach during a game should be terminated.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:25 AM ^
I agree he should have probably been fired after Wisconsin, but what about this is embarrassing for the University? We don't even know yet what this is.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:29 AM ^
I think it is the general and not specific that is embarrassing...having a head coach who can't control his emotions to the point that he (definitely) had one physical altercation and (maybe) a second.
December 11th, 2023 at 8:34 AM ^
It's clear that some form of altercation happened. After he already assaulted an opposing coach.
If we pay a guy millions per year to lead young men, we need to hold them to a higher standard. Ask yourself if you'd be fired if you punched someone at work. Now ask yourself why a man who gets paid millions of dollars per year to coach a game gets an exception.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:10 AM ^
If people wanted to fire him after the Wisconsin incident they absolutely have a right to do so, even if I think it's more nuanced than "Howard punched an unsuspecting Wisconsin coach" framing that some (not you, OP) use for it.
But if we're going to hold coaches to this "higher standard" then we better clearly define what's acceptable and what's not. Tom Izzo, for example, has repeatedly been caught in physical altercations with players seemingly for no worse offense than not doing what he wanted. That's an awful power imbalance being abused by Izzo there. And that's just in games. Feels like that's a fireable offense but weirdly nothing much has come of that. Bruce Pearl was caught drinking with coeds on a boat, amongst numerous other questionable acts, which sure seems like a failure to live up to a higher standard. The less said about Rick Pitino the better. These are just off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are numerous other guys who've violated equally-sacrosanct rules and allowed to keep their jobs. So the idea that there's a higher level of morality with coaches doesn't square with reality.
I'm fine if people want to fire Howard for his on-court performance or because him getting into a fight with an opposing coach is a zero-tolerance violation. But can we stop acting like he's some black sheep in a sport that has a ton of shitty dudes.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^
I don't disagree about Izzo/other coaches, but they're irrelevant to Michigan, and your post is pure whataboutism.
I believe Michigan should've fired him the minute he stepped off that court, retaining him is and was embarrassing.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:31 AM ^
You assume "some altercation" happened, which based on reporting sounds like a heated shouting match. That happens literally every day in college athletics, so it sounds like your actual reason is him being retained after Wisconsin. That's a totally defensible position but then just say that and don't call back on the "higher standard" argument when we're arguing about a sport rife with guys who have temper problems. To me angrily grabbing and jabbing college athletes or mother-fucking them for hours is equally bad and would get you fired in a place of business, but then maybe I'm just engaging in whataboutism.
December 11th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
Whatever happened was bad enough for rumors to be swirling about Howard's future with the program. Maybe it was relatively nothing, maybe it wasn't, but the fact is that Howard has already assaulted an opposing coach which should be a fireable offense. Adding whatever this is on top of it just makes the program and university look bad. And for what?
He's not exactly Bobby Knight where his success may make his antics "worth" keeping him around.
December 11th, 2023 at 10:28 AM ^
So you'd be willing to bend the rule for Bobby Knight but not Juwan based on your assessment of his coaching skill. And you want to be taken seriously in this conversation?
Looking back and saying that he should have been fired for the punch thrown in Madison is. . . just that. The school doesn't have a zero-tolerance policy for violence, and you can see why; anger is a part of life and especially of sport. Juwan was given another chance, and--presumably--agreed to terms going forward. Re-litigate that all you like, but accept one thing--the coaching landscape is littered with far worse, and execrable human beings coaching on third and fourth chances. You're just here--in your august anonymity--to beat up on Michigan's basketball coach.