OT: former Red Wings Coach Babcock to be hired by CBJ
Reports over the weekend indicate that the Columbus Blue Jackets will hire former Red Wings coach Mike Babcock when his existing contract with the Maple Leafs expires at the end of the month. As a Jackets fan, I am interested in hearing what Red Wings fans think of this hire. Did he usually seem to meet, exceed, or fail to meet expectations, and were the character issues that derailed his time in Toronto a theme in Detroit as well? (Did not see this posted already, please go easy on a first-timer)
Not a Wings fan but I’m kind of surprised that this is where Columbus went. I think the game has passed him by with the mental warfare he’d force upon his players. When his name was mentioned in the Rangers opening, I hoping they were not even considering him.
As for his time in Detroit, Johan Franzen said that Babcock was “the worse person I have ever met.”
Edit: I also forgot that he hasn’t won a playoff series in over a decade, or his last seven years behind an NHL bench.
I don't feel for Columbus fans, but going from John Tortorella to Brad Larsen to Mike Babcock is a hilarious real-life example of the "Am I out of touch? No. It is the children who are wrong." Simpsons meme by continually doubling down with worse and worse authoritarian coaches.
A fair amount of players love playing for Torts because he doesn’t beat around the bush and you know where you stand with him. For the most part, he will have their backs and be emphatic in his support of them. Babcock does not, ever, at all.
True, but even so, I don't think he would ever be considered a "player's coach"... Though he would appear like one when compared to Babcock.
Great hire........in 2003. Sadly in 2023, seems like putting one in your own net.
That's definitely my concern, especially just a couple years removed from the mass exodus of young talent caused by Tortorella
Tortorella might be a tough coach but one that usually has players back. Babcock seems to have no problem making his players lives miserable and upstaging them at any chance he gets.
According to the first article you linked (Franzen and Modano examples, and Shanny quote), he was also toxic in Detroit.
Apparently Columbus is not interested in attracting free agents.
So everyone dumps on Babcock for his treatment of Franzen, but two things stand out to me:
1) where was the player leadership from Zetterberg to step in if it was as bad as Franzen alleged or Chris Chelios alluded? Supposedly Holland met with all the players and asked them to spill their tea...and nobody did.
2) Babcock has been away from the game a few years and is obviously aware of his reputation. Are we saying he can't possibly change his approach in Columbus? That seems ridiculously presumptuous to me.
I have no doubt he's a hard ass, and I have no doubt that most younger players especially are made uncomfortable by that. But I think it's a good hire by Columbus. He knows the game, and he'll be motivated to change the narrative.
Let's see how it plays out. I love a good redemption story.
1. It's a loosely-kept secret that the 2008-era Wings were basically managed by the captains/vets (Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Rafalski, Osgood, etc) and they were the intermediaries preventing Babcock from interacting with the rest of the team.
2. It would be easier to believe if Mike Babcock showed any kind of remorse or empathy when his coaching methods came to light. His responses were very dismissive of any criticisms and essentially "I'm sorry you feel that way."
Not saying people can't grow and can change, but there's not a lot of evidence that Babcock has done much growing to deserve another shot.
"Not saying people can't grow and can change, but there's not a lot of evidence that Babcock has done much growing to deserve another shot."
Watch the SPORTSNET interview with Babcock from a couple of years ago on his time with Toronto and past incidents. You'll see a guy who says he was wrong but then finds ways to justify himself. Feel bad for Johnny Gaudreau. He escaped Darryl Sutter only to go to a team that's hiring Babcock.
Supposedly Gaudreau was consulted by jarmo and endorsed the hire.
I heard that too. I wonder if it went something like this:
Ownership: Johhny, we really want Mike Babcock to coach the team. We feel he is the right man for the job, and we just want to make sure that you're on board. Can we count on your support?
Gaudreau: Um... sure.
Yeah, I'm sure he was pumped up and really thrilled about it
1) Mental health stigma was vastly different during Babcock's coaching tenure with the Wings than current.
2) Do we have any evidence he wants to change? Sure he might know his reputation....doesn't mean he is willing or able.
He's going to have to prove it. I don't see much reason to give him the benefit of the doubt as of now. Based on his past, it's a bad hire. Could be proven wrong. Or right. We'll see.
His character issues in Detroit, probably should have been red flags in Toronto. Look up Babcock/ Johan Franzen. Franzen had terrible post-concussion issues and wound up kind of terrorized by Babcock while dealing with these issues.
For your team's sake, hope he has learned some hard lessons. This isn't just a old school/new school issue...if you dare, look into how Mike Commodore feels about him, it's not good. The Mike Modano thing (benching him for his 1,500 game) wasn't a great look either.
Wonder what this would do to Kent Johnson's career and development.
You should hear Mike Commodore's story about getting traded to the Wings when Babs was coach. That's all the confirmation I needed. Dude's a jackwagon.
Chris Chelios doesn't exactly speak highly of Babcock. And nobody would ever even imply Chelios was one of those "soft kids" people like to claim take things too personally.
When the Wings traveled to Chicago for a game Cheli let Babcock know he had a lot of family in the crowd. Babcock scratched him from the lineup. Grade A asshole.
The NHL is really, really good at recycling fired coaches. This is one more reason to root against Columbus, in addition to the main one.
EDIT: I just realized, he will need a new alias. From now on he'll be known as:
"Xike" Babcock
It's a fresh start!
The guy's a jerk, period. Add what he did to Mitch Marner (as a rookie) in Toronto to the long list of a-hole incidents in his coaching career.
To summarize: He made Mitch rank all his teammates by the amount of effort they were giving. Then he turned around and showed some of those other players where they were ranked on Mitch's list! Just absolutely throwing the rookie under the bus!
As far as his coaching goes, I think he underperformed in Detroit. With all that talent, they won one cup in ten seasons. And a lot of those playoff losses were to teams who had less talent than the Wings!
Perfect marriage of D-bag coach and C-bus.
Its kind of a meh hire. Babcock got probably more credit than he deserved for winning a Cup with the Wings but there's no doubt that '08 wasn't just talented -- they were hard working and disciplined too. A year later, there was a dropoff and you could see the difference -- maybe his act was wearing thin by then? Then he coasted on the Euro twins before Toronto snatched him up. As a Red Wings fan, I wasn't saying "good riddance", but I wasn't super sad to see him go either.
With that said, it's a fairly common cycle with professional coaches in every sport now -- a guy like Tortarella or Babcock can get really high performance out of a team for a short time, but then it wears off quickly.
It's not just the 2008 Cup that he has to his name, he also got the Ducks to Game 7 in 2003 and won Gold Medals at the Olympics twice in two tries. For a decade, he was clearly the best hockey coach in the world, and few match his resume. That said, the Franzen incident is pretty bad, likely disqualifying, and the Marner thing is borderline. There's a lot of smoke around his bad behavior as coach, and if Columbus goes through with the hire I can only hope he's learned and changed. Being fired by Toronto and out of a job for a few years should be sobering.
Babcock is an asshole, plain and simple. Players hated him in Detroit.