MMQB w/ Devin Gardner, Indiana Edition
Non-exhaustive summary. Observations attributable to DG unless specified:
- Both QBs played good, opponent caveats apply.
- OL is having a great year and should be considered for OL of the year. Largely keeping clean QBs and run game is an obvious strength. (MSU brought in extra guys to stop run, not OL’s fault.) Guys sub in and out for injuries, all playing at a high level.
- Corum drop - asks Cade to step up into pocket instead of drifting back. If he stepped up might not have missed Sainristil open downfield.
- TE hitch opens up Sainristil dig route, great play from both.
- Cade missed Sainristil trying to hit well covered RB wheel after AA took two safeties out of the area, great route.
- Sam: Cade reluctant to hit over middle against zone? DG: Maybe.
- Red zone struggles – mix of execution & play calling.
- JJ will get better with more reps; issues he had were because of lack of reps. Glad that he’s getting reps.
- JJ's yakety sax play missed a check down to RB right in his face because his eyes stuck downfield on 3rd & long. At the end of scramble, DG wished he would try to hit Sainristil on sideline instead of throwing back into defense. Several mental errors. Believes reps are key to eliminating those.
- Sam, putting words in DG’s mouth: Talking up JJ isn’t saying he should take Cade’s job, it’s saying he brings something to the team and Michigan should continue to find a role for both in an integrated fashion. [DG agrees.]
November 8th, 2021 at 11:41 AM ^
Good job AAC.
November 8th, 2021 at 2:02 PM ^
Andrel Anthony is at the MDEN on Thursday. Someone find out if he can play this weekend!
Thanks!
November 8th, 2021 at 11:41 AM ^
Injury tent or not for Cade, I liked that JJ got a full drive to establish a rhythm - it can't be easy to constantly sub in and out like that for just one play at a time. The arm talent is there, but every play can't be a Johnny Manziel scramble around type play... I like the take about how reps will iron this out. More film to work with, etc.
November 8th, 2021 at 11:44 AM ^
Talking up JJ isn’t saying he should take Cade’s job, it’s saying he brings something to the team and Michigan should continue to find a role for both in an integrated fashion.
Yes.
November 8th, 2021 at 11:53 AM ^
PUT THOSE WORDS IN *MY* MOUTH
November 8th, 2021 at 12:13 PM ^
I think this is where I'm supposed to say, "Username checks out."
November 8th, 2021 at 5:44 PM ^
November 8th, 2021 at 11:53 AM
Talking up JJ isn’t saying he should take Cade’s job, it’s saying he brings something to the team and Michigan should continue to find a role for both in an integrated fashion.
Joined: 05/14/2009
MGoPoints: 7358
November 8th, 2021 at 11:48 AM ^
I admittedly know nothing about QB mechanics but I think Cades height (or lack) is a primary reason why he doesn’t step into more throws. To get the ball over your oline and the dline he probably gets stuck releasing off his back foot because he feels he needs to give it that upward trajectory to not have it batted down.
November 8th, 2021 at 12:11 PM ^
I think there's no way we can know this is true, especially since we know nothing about QB mechanics. So it could be totally false.
...But it's an interesting theory I hadn't heard before and I'd love someone who has some real knowledge to comment on it.
November 8th, 2021 at 1:06 PM ^
A quick data point would be Drew Brees. What did he do?
November 8th, 2021 at 12:49 PM ^
Cade appears to have a 3/4 throwing motion which seems like a function of spread football where the routes are shorter. Not sure if that has an effect on trajectory. Seems like it would, but I'm not a qb.
November 8th, 2021 at 1:49 PM ^
I've also noticed that he often throws while leaning back. Not necessarily off the back foot, but - like DG says - not stepping into it. It's like he's throwing with just his arm, and not including all the leveraging things the rest of his body offers.
I say this while comparing him to other QBs, not because I can spell 'QB mechanics'...
November 8th, 2021 at 11:51 AM ^
As far as I can tell, the coaches, McNamara, and McCarthy have all handled the QB situation really well. McCarthy is getting meaningful reps. And McNamara doesn't seem to mind. It's hard to point to a misstep by anyone given that McNamara was in the injury tent during McCarthy's misfired handoff against MSU (which may have been on Corum anyway).
November 8th, 2021 at 11:52 AM ^
I haven't listened to it, and I'm sure Gardner has forgotten more football than I've ever known, but I'm not sure I'd characterize JJ's play as "good"
My recollection was bailing out of pockets, a few good throws, and a few inadvisable ones, and a general reinforcement of the feeling that Cade is the starter for good reason
November 8th, 2021 at 1:51 PM ^
Whaa???
But we were told (repeatedly) that JJ is the nations #1 passer by PFF's accounting and should be the starter immediately!!
(Where is bfeeeeeveear when a statement is needed?)
November 8th, 2021 at 3:07 PM ^
I admittedly haven't listened to this, but if Gardner's takeaway from this game was just that both QBs were 'good' then I think he's perhaps not wanting to go back on his 'Cade's not the guy' take. This game clearly showed that Cade is the starter and JJ is a talented freshman not ready for the big time
November 8th, 2021 at 5:47 PM ^
You're right about what the game showed, but I don't understand your interpretation of DG's comments. He's not going to be mean to any Michigan QB in public without very good reason. Saying they were both good in his position is just saying that the status quo is good, which it is.
November 8th, 2021 at 9:04 PM ^
Maybe you missed the clip from a few weeks ago - he said something to the effect of Cades "not the guy" off the air but still on video
November 8th, 2021 at 6:21 PM ^
I came away from the MMQB segment feeling a little better about JJs play than I felt about watching live.
-He didn't have every JJ play but he showed the out to the flat that JJ threw on a rope that a lot of QBs can't make.
-He showed the play where he scrambled and threw an ill-advised pass back towards the middle of the field and said that was bad.
-He showed a play where he missed CJ because CJ ran a route slightly different than he had earlier in the game and stated that with more reps throwing to CJ that could easily be cleaned up.
-He also showed a play where JJ took a sack but didn't really have any options and instead of forcing a bad throw, he pulled it down and took the sack.
So there was good and bad in there but some of the bad stuff live felt a little less bad when DG broke it down.
November 8th, 2021 at 11:57 AM ^
As least Gardner isn't calling McNamara "Shea" anymore, so I'll take it.
I do think the offense looked solid against a decent IU defense and while the numbers weren't great in the passing game it was also the type of game where you took your shots and then just tried to run the clock out. I do think McCarthy looked a bit rattled at times and while that will settle down somewhat with reps he may also be running into defenses that have some gameplan for him and he's having to adjust.
November 8th, 2021 at 12:10 PM ^
I'm not sure that there's much of a "JJ should be starting" crowd left, but his struggles against IU ought to put that thought to bed. And that's not to say that he won't be a great QB at some point. But he is very much a freshman right now.
November 8th, 2021 at 12:21 PM ^
Absolutely. I feel comfortable saying he'd be...fine as an emergency starter if he had to, but the drop off about still be pretty significant and the ceiling for the offense would be much lower overall even if perhaps the on-the-ground part would tick up a bit.
November 8th, 2021 at 1:21 PM ^
It's seems like jj throws bullet passes when the situation calls for touch passes.
November 8th, 2021 at 1:57 PM ^
In that (crappy) emergency situation, how long do you think it would take JJ to warm up enough that Cade would have trouble getting his spot back? I think it would be a few games before the freshman clouds began to dissipate and the floor starts to come up.
In other words - we don't need that poopiness happening this year!
November 8th, 2021 at 12:09 PM ^
Sounds same as last week...good play by Cade, but he's probably leaving too many points out there to be great and will need to improve to beat good teams.
November 8th, 2021 at 12:11 PM ^
I don't want JJ to transfer, but judging by how well Cade has done so far this year, I imagine he's the starter next year, as well. While we sat around mooning over JJ, we might have had Harbaugh's ideal QB finally gestating in Cade. A kid who's hitting 65-74% of his throws this year is going to be very, very good behind a better team next year.
And while I am all for JJ getting reps in garbage time, I would beg the coaches not to keep marring Cade's rhythm with these miserable In-N-Out burgers.
A lot of the self-styled experts here this year have ended up looking silly when it came to Cade v JJ.
November 8th, 2021 at 2:46 PM ^
It will be interesting next year. I expect there to be open competition between the two all the way through next fall's camp.
But how do we play them to keep them both happy after that, if one doesn't clearly beat out the other?
What's worse is if McCarthy beats out McNamara. I'd look for another team if I'm McNamara. After all, he has proved himself a Big 10 starter.
November 8th, 2021 at 12:17 PM ^
great show. I believe they mentioned Dante Moore too. I realize the summary above was non exhaustive, but he is worth a click.
November 8th, 2021 at 12:18 PM ^
There's some talk about Cade's willingness or unwillingness to throw into the middle against zone defense.
That's interesting, because before MSU Michigan QBs weren't throwing there at all unless it was something like a TE left all alone. I saw Cade make a really nice pass or two in the middle Saturday, and he was doing it very well against MSU all game long.
...But if he were really comfortable with it, I imagine we'd have seen more of it for more of the season.
So I think we actually have a situation where some combination of Cade and the coaches have been uncomfortable attacking the middle of zones and we're actually seeing growth here, growth which plateaued a bit this week as they'd want to limit risky passes in a should-win game against Indiana.
I have discussed extensively my complaints that the Harbaugh regime seems to develop tentative QBs, particularly in this area of mid-range throwing over the middle of the field where you're attacking gaps in zone coverage. Some of that may be (and I tend to believe is) coaching. But there's also a system effect, one that Harbaugh actually stated explicitly in 2017 after Speight's pick-sixes against Florida: Michigan didn't practice against zone much when Don Brown was the DC. And when they did see it, the zones weren't high-quality.
That would also help explain why Rudock has turned out to be exception to the regressing QB trend, since he spent four years practicing against one of the best zone defenses in college football at Iowa before coming here.
Well, Michigan has real zone defenses now. And while it may be taking time, perhaps we are seeing the gradual growth of our QBs attacking those defenses as they see more, better ones in practice. We can hope.
November 8th, 2021 at 12:51 PM ^
I think you are spot-on in your assessment. I think the o-line and d-line play is better because of it. Also, the d-backs are better, too.
The coaching staff and schematic changes are gradually paying dividends.
November 8th, 2021 at 1:04 PM ^
Thank you for this post. I too think there's a systemic / philosophical issue with Harbaugh QBs throwing to the middle of the field -- due to the extra risk of INTs involved -- and that it limits what we can do in the passing game. It's good to hear that maybe it's loosening up a bit with Cade. It's ridiculous to be so averse to part of the passing game that we let it limit what we can do offensively. If that's changing, it's a good thing.
November 8th, 2021 at 12:24 PM ^
Say, how is Joe Milton doing in TN?
November 8th, 2021 at 2:50 PM ^
Interesting how two coaching staffs in a row haven't figured out Milton had no clue how to read defenses until he got on the field.
I wonder if Milton is one of those guys where in practice he kind of memorizes everything the scout/team defense does, but can't do that in games (obviously).
November 8th, 2021 at 4:27 PM ^
Unsubstantiated rumor he is a dark horse for the Heisman trophy this year
November 8th, 2021 at 12:30 PM ^
November 8th, 2021 at 1:04 PM ^
Quite appropriate. He certainly knows a thing or two about beating Indiana.
November 8th, 2021 at 1:45 PM ^
Isn't that the game where Gallon had a record number of receiving yards?
November 8th, 2021 at 1:16 PM ^
So much fun. I keep chuckling as I watch.
November 8th, 2021 at 2:47 PM ^
JJ needs developed and that is series and opening the offense for him. He needs to run the offense with control, seeing the field. Not panicking under pressure but seeing his progression and making the right read and throws.
Has to graduate from the hero ball make a huge play out of nothing every time a pass play is called. That's going to get him injured, picked off and possibly cost points. None of that is good just because he has had some success. Has to learn to throw on time to the open rec that requires seeing the field. As he gets better get more freedom to pull, run and throw.
November 8th, 2021 at 3:13 PM ^
JJ is very fast and the arm is amazing. He will progress, but right now it looks to me like he is still trying to play like he is in high school. He is up with the big boys now.
Cade will not be giving up his job anytime soon.