Scheming against the QB option
Multiple times during the Nebraska game, Martinez ran directly at Hutchinson. As he’s been coached to do, Hutchinson froze the QB, forces it outside and made him toss to the RB. Hutchinson then released but was too far away to make a play.
My guess (as someone that has never played football) is Hutchinson did exactly what he was supposed to do and the other players just didn’t make the plays once the ball was pitched.
If that is the case, they essentially “blocked” Hutchinson from making a play. Isn’t the better option just to tell Hutchinson to attack the Quarterback and crush him? He ends up tossing the ball anyway, but you at least get a solid shot on the QB.
Tell me why I’m an idiot and just tackling the Quarterback on every option is a bad idea.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:00 PM ^
I assume because unless you hit him right as he's pitching the ball it would be a penalty and you're removing yourself from the rest of the play. You might get the benefit of the doubt when tackling a RB or WR after they pitch the ball, but with a QB you need to be extra careful.
October 11th, 2021 at 1:26 PM ^
Not a QB anymore in that situation. No special protections as a runner, which the pitch man remains unless he immediately goes down and removes himself from the play.
October 11th, 2021 at 1:37 PM ^
Correct
October 11th, 2021 at 8:17 PM ^
Exactly right. Plus the DE gets to hit the QB a few times for free, making the QB hate his OC for calling that play again (and the DE love his DC for leaving him in the game to hit the QB) and perhaps also causing the QB to pitch the ball earlier the next time, making the option play less effective.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:01 PM ^
We love you and there are no bad ideas. Etcetera.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:05 PM ^
Hutchinson is good enough to force the pitch and still recover and help with the tackle if the teammates can constrain the ball carrier enough. Tackling the QB takes him out of the play for good. The proper option defense is to string it out long enough that the defense can recover to make up for the offensive numbers advantage created by the option.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:09 PM ^
Exactly. Going right at the QB allows the RB to get north/south, where stringing it out wide gives your Calvary more of an opportunity to get wide and not have to worry about the RB cutting inside them
October 11th, 2021 at 12:17 PM ^
Also opens up a cutback lane. Even if Hutch can't get to the RB, he narrows the field considerably.
It is possible to have the defender rush the QB, but option defenses generally shuffle in this way, it does a better job of challenging the pitch relationship and forcing the QB to be precise and well-timed. We've seen this run well against us, with QB defenders shuffling off and affecting RBs. The offense *prefers* the defender to charge, because if the read is correct the defender is then completely eliminated from the play.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:11 PM ^
Also change up responsibilities throughout the game, i.e., have the end drop back rather than crash to put a little question in the QBs head on whether he’s reading the right guy.
October 11th, 2021 at 1:12 PM ^
The difficulty is that teams don't only run a traditional option rushing play anymore where you have the standard Dive, QB, and Pitch responsibility on defense. Teams these days run a zone-read triple (or even quadruple) option, where the DE is being read. If he crashes the RB during the mesh, the QB will pull and run around him, which is what Neb did to Hutchinson on that one play. If the DE rushes upfield to take the QB or flares out to the flat, the QB simply gives to the RB at the mesh. Standard zone-read stuff. Thank you Rich Rod. Even after the QB decides to pull the ball and keep, he still has the option to pitch to a trailing H-Back (like Neb did to Mich when Mattison was DC resulting in a shrug emoji) or throw a pass, resulting in four options in one play post-snap.
The best defensive scheme I've come across to the zone-read triple option is what Alabama did to Denard's Michigan team that one game (I think in 2012). Bama only worried about Denard running the ball and not the RBs so they always had the DE rush upfield on a read option to force Denard to give to the RB where the rest of the Bama defense was waiting. The entire Bama defense knew who was going to get the ball on every read option play thus eliminating one of the options of a read option. I'm sure other defenses do the same depending on which offensive personnel is on the field on any particular play and which runner they want to rush the ball and not rush the ball. Either way, the entire defense is prepared for what's coming (for the most part).
What sucks even more for defenses these days is that a team might just go ahead and run a traditional option, like OSU did right after the 4th down debacle to win the 2016 Game (sorry!).
I had a point somewhere, but I forgot it.
October 11th, 2021 at 3:24 PM ^
Eh, I've heard some people say that Denard wasn't great at making the Read Option reads, so it might not be the best example.
Honestly, credit has to be given where it's due, and one of if not the best defense I've ever seen against the Read Option was Don Brown's when he was here. That was his specialty, shutting down spread-to-run attacks, and he built top-5 defenses on the back of it.
October 11th, 2021 at 4:12 PM ^
Did Denard ever pitch to the RB?
October 11th, 2021 at 4:16 PM ^
The play in question when Hoke and Mattison did the shrug was an inverted veer(?) that gave the RB (Rex Burkhead) the ball on the mesh, who then read the next defender and pitched outside of him to a the other RB (Ameer Abdullah). It was nifty as hell.
October 11th, 2021 at 1:37 PM ^
This is the right way
October 11th, 2021 at 12:07 PM ^
I would also like to see the QB destroyed, but that tends to get the refs looking a little longer. Also, if Hutch commits to making a move at a QB like Martinez, a couple of stutter steps is going to open up a long run. By that time, the LBs and Safeties are screaming outside to help against the pitch. Letting the QB go back inside would, for the most part, be wide open. Better for Hutch to make sure Martinez isn't getting by. The goal is to force the pitch - always has been since Schembechler was coaching.
Basically, its just not good football to make your DE match moves with either a running QB or a RB. Keep them contained and get the tackle.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:27 PM ^
Most coaches don’t like which I’m not sure why ? That but I’d 100% take this forcing the pitch faster when the QB doesn’t want to or isn’t ready is preferred. As someone who works with a lot of academy grads who played defense for AF. They will always tell you making the QB pitch based on you forcing them other than them reading you is better. It’s a different tempo and the pitch isn’t always going to be perfect because the defender is coming down hill in a hurry hitting you and it wears down the QB. It forces more turnovers.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:08 PM ^
Two schools of thought. One is to bone the qb and make him pitch it every time so he thinks twice every time he runs that option. The other is to try to slow play the keep-pitch decision, eventually force the pitch, and then hopefully help out on the pitch man inside out.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:08 PM ^
I thought it was more of a way to just simply slow up the play enough so the cavalry can arrive and keep the gain to a minimum.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:10 PM ^
Tackling an athletic QB in space isn't always that easy. Breaking down and forcing the pitch is the safer option.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:25 PM ^
We always had assignments playing the option. Outside linebacker or D-end had the QB. Safety had the pitch man w/ the corner having secondary contain. As a corner, I gave two shits what the QB was doing. I covered the pitch man like a blanket to essentially take that option away (or if you're that dumb to pitch it, I'm right there to intercept the pitch). Likewise the outside linebacker or D-end should give two shits about the pitch man. Force the QB to get rid of the ball (or just hammer him if he doesn't).
If you are an option offense your pitch man has to get more lateral to the line of scrimmage. Nebraska had a few pitches from what I can remember where Martinez was actually pitching the ball back an additional 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage. If someone on Michigan's defense just blanketed that guy from the get-go, that play turns into a huge loss. Having Hutchinson get on the QB quick forces him to get rid of it quicker to the pitch man, who also has no time to get closer to the line of scrimmage to receive the pitch.
Also, those quick hits to the QB is definitely going to result in a bad pitch that gets picked up by Michigan that Vincent Gray nearly recovered on one option play.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:26 PM ^
You aren’t an idiot but I believe the defenses backers are taught spill the play to the outside and the CBs/OLBs are to fill the play in.
my opinion is to have Hutch hit the qb no matter what. Make the qb make a bad play and wear down of the course of the game.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:35 PM ^
Hutchinson was doing an A+ job on those. Those are good play calls on Frost's part as well too; letting the teams best defensive player remain unblocked was ironically how Rich Rod climbed the coaching ladder but that's a story for another day.
To go through it a bit more, on an option you always want the QB to pitch it. Hutchinson was doing a great job of not allowing Martinez to get free yards but also not tackling him which allows him to chase the RB. The reason you do not just run in and smear the QB is that the longer the QB holds the ball the more time you should have for your LB or Safety on that side of the ball to come down and fill their lane on run support, not to mention Hutchinson is good enough to effectively play both guys. That's why Hutchinson was doing such a great job - he didn't charge right at Martinez because then it's an easy pitch. But he also gave Martinez something to think about in terms of keeping it himself because I do not remember him actually tackling him. If you just want to smear the QB you are just banking on the fact he will eventually get hurt.
Another way to think of it is this: If Hutchinson smears Martinez it is instantly an one on one situation with their RB versus the Safety or LB depending on whom the tackle blocks. If Hutchinson can play both, you make Martinez decide if he wants to go one on one with Hutchinson (survey says: not a good idea) or now Hutchinson can rally to help out his other defender tasked with the RB. While he probably won't be quick enough to make initial contact you now have 1.5 defenders for the RB instead of one.
I know this sounds easy but I can't imagine how hard it is for one of the best defensive players in the country not to take a free shot on an exposed QB, but it's what you need to do defend that play correctly.
October 11th, 2021 at 1:16 PM ^
Terrific answer.
Based on the knowledge here - is this really Brian Griese? If so, thank you for 1997. The memories helped get us fans through some lean years in the current millenium.
Go Blue!!!
October 11th, 2021 at 1:58 PM ^
Although BG is my childhood idol from the 97 team and you can rest assured I am not him.
October 11th, 2021 at 2:13 PM ^
Good because if you were I was going to suggest that you should be prepping for MNF tonight.
October 11th, 2021 at 4:07 PM ^
I understand the concept you are describing, but this sounds exactly like what Hutchinson did on that touchdown play. So what went wrong there? Was another defender supposed to be there to cover the QB?
October 11th, 2021 at 4:50 PM ^
He looked like he was expecting some help somewhere on the TD play. But that's also the play Brian mentioned where Nebraska subbed late (which the refs are supposed to allow Michigan to match) but as soon as the defender got even remotely in the area the official bailed and Nebraska snapped before we were ready.
Good play by Nebraska but I also thought the official should have allowed the defense to get actually to their positions before bailing out.
October 11th, 2021 at 6:22 PM ^
I agree, and to the above person posting that’s a different type of “option” on that play. On the backfield handoff either give or fake it appears our DE’s were crashing the QB on those plays. On the scoring play I think Ross was out of position on the snap and couldn’t scrape over the top to maintain the edge but I’ll wait for UFR.
October 11th, 2021 at 5:08 PM ^
More Frost chicanery.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:35 PM ^
Since we're discussing option plays, I'll ask: why does the default play seem to be defend the QB and force the pitch? I guess the reason is grounded in X's and O's. The pitch takes more time, is harder to execute, easier to defend without giving up a big play. However, it seems like maybe the optimal defense, from a whole game perspective, is to defend the back and make the QB carry. The RB is generally a better runner (Denard and others excepted, of course) and can be replaced due to fatigue easier than the QB. You might give up more yards to the QB early, but by the end of the game they will have taken a lot of hits and possibly be prone to making a mistake like the fumble Martinez had.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:46 PM ^
You make a good point. I think the majority of the time it’s best to make the QB pitch it (narrows the field, higher risk of a turnover, etc). However, if we were playing Penn State circa 2017 and Franklin decided to pull out the option against Michigan I would’ve let McSorley carry the ball as much as he wanted as opposed to getting Saquon more touches.
That’s what it comes down on for me: If the QB is a better or equal runner to the RB it’s better to eliminate them from the play, and I feel Martinez definitely fell into that category.
October 11th, 2021 at 1:08 PM ^
Forcing the pitch slows the play down and allows the defense to rally around a run play. When the play starts, it's a guessing game on whether its pass or run, and those couple of steps before recognition make a difference.
For instance, on Corum's 29yd TD run, the DE (#44) had to wait a step to see where the ball was going, while the CB turned slightly to play coverage. That one step was all Corum needed to get by the DE (and was why Schoonmaker headed straight for the LB). The half turn took the corner out of the play because it allowed the WR to block effectively (to put it kindly).
Slow the play down so your friends can react and help out.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:37 PM ^
As a non coach Hutchinson is slowing the play down by not attacking allowing defenders to approach to cover the toss. He gets there quick they tos quick and the defenders may not be there or free from blocks yet. He's not allowing forward progress and slowing them forcing them to have less space post toss.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:44 PM ^
Option is just assignment football on defense. They were pitching off Hutch, obviously. We tell our kids to plant the QB there, but Hutch seemed to be playing squeeze and pop technique on it because he's an elite level athlete. They have another defender assignment to the pitch man.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:57 PM ^
In my day/the old triple option day the DE always smacked the QB ASAP. The times have changed. Each player has to do their job first, then help out. Aiden was doing exactly as coached and did a great job all night. When players don't handle their task on the option the trouble starts. It takes disciple to defense the option or read/option.
I played DE and I didn't care about the fullback dive or pitch man. I had blinders on to everything, but the QB.
October 11th, 2021 at 1:31 PM ^
Those were the days I remember. As the DB, you just smack the pitch man. Hardly ever was their a lead backer and you can get on him before he even knows you're there (since the ONLY thing he looks at before catching the ball is the QB).
October 11th, 2021 at 1:06 PM ^
As others have said, Hutchinsons job there is to string out the play in an attempt to make both sides of the pitch wrong by allowing the defense to rally and constricting the field.
But have a player attack the qb is a strategy in defending the zone read. It’s essentially the defense deciding that they want to choose the read rather than let the offense dictate. The difficulty with that strategy is that you need an extremely strong interior d line that can shed and make plays in their matchup and also that aggressiveness leaves you open to counters that can hit for massive chunks if you are too predictable.
October 11th, 2021 at 1:14 PM ^
95% of their offense is Martinez go make a play. I think we would take the trade of neutralizing their best offensive playmaker with our best defensive playmaker.
There are lots of ways to scheme a defense to play the option but it all comes down to being discipline and assignment sound. Do your job and trust your buddies do theirs.
Our strategy on Saturday night was mainly make Adrian give the ball up.
October 11th, 2021 at 2:14 PM ^
The point is to delay the pitch, allowing Hutchinson's teammates to read the play and rally to the pitch man. It also gives Hutchinson a chance to recover and get in on the play.
You attack the QB if you want to force the pitch.
You attack the pitch man if you want the QB to keep the ball.
You play a "feather" technique if you want to slow down the QB's read.
October 11th, 2021 at 2:17 PM ^
I'll be curious to see what the UFR or Devin Gardner or Gorgeous Borges have to say but on a rewatch I thought the bust on Martinez's TD was... Dax. Maybe Josh.
We had 4 on 3 on their bunch to the left, including Dax, and Josh was late to react, if he was supposed to scrape on that play (which I of course don't know). Aidan looked like he executed his assignment but there was no one behind him.
October 11th, 2021 at 2:42 PM ^
My approach would be much like a 2-1 in basketball (which this is highly effective but not used) key in on the ball handler knowing the entire time you are going to attack the pass/pitch and at the right moment go full for the pitch/pass receiver. A good pitch fake of course would be killer to the game plan but not many do that.
October 11th, 2021 at 2:56 PM ^
I think we were hurt more by the counters/extensions to the option plays in the game than we were by the option. Got caught looking into the backfield on the seam route up the middle, lost containment/linebacker caught in the wash on the wheel to the right that went for a TD, same thing on the end to the right.
Nebraska made great adjustments on offense based on how well we were playing the option, and they did their damage basically banking that we were really looking for the option and our guys left to cover their "counters" to the option were biting hard, and not the fastest in the world to begin with.
October 11th, 2021 at 3:58 PM ^
Back in the old days of the 52 angle defense, the strong/wide side end would attack the QB but the weak side end would try and play cat and mouse with the QB and RB to try and slow the play up until more help arrived. Bo made a film about all the techniques which I had to watch many times as my high school team ran the same defense..
October 11th, 2021 at 4:05 PM ^
What scheming adjustments would be needed against PSU’s qb who also is a runner? I just re-watched last year’s game but our defense was so different then. I am not as sophisticated as you guys at this but learned a ton from the above posts, but not enough to apply it to the nits. Love learning this stuff!
October 11th, 2021 at 4:46 PM ^
Hits on a QB add up.
October 11th, 2021 at 5:03 PM ^
Logged in for the first time in a long time to comment on this. You're exactly right that this is the best way to play the option. I was an option QB in high school (neg away) and the the most difficult teams to play were the ones who sent the DE's to kill me every single play.
It not only wears down the QB but the whole point of it is to freeze everyone on the defense just long enough to get the edge. If Hutchinson's job was to hit the QB every play (instead of trying to skate), then everyone else's job is to sprint to the pitch back.
While the option is designed to keep the defense guessing, if you know what you're doing, the defense can actually dictate what they want the offense to do. Would love to see Hutchinson smash the QB every play. Most QB's will start to pitch it a little sooner to avoid the hit or brace for it which gives our D longer to pursue.
While I understand our DE's are super athletic, they will rarely force the pitch and make the play. The whole point of the option is to nullify the edge. It typically does that very well.
October 11th, 2021 at 5:08 PM ^
Hutch played it correctly. The technique is called "slow playing the QB." This is employed because the pitch player is a safety and needs time to get to the pitch. Slow playing the QB makes the option develop more slowly, giving the safety the time he needs.
Old school defenses could also immediately hit the QB because the offensive formations were things like 2 TE wishbone so you didn't need multiple safeties worried about WR deep routes.
October 11th, 2021 at 6:53 PM ^
I like the idea of leveling the qb the first time to give him something to think about then after that play it more if a shuffle splitting and helping after the pitch, but make sure he pitches it because he's the more dangerous runner.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:15 PM ^
I've often questioned whether when average running quarterbacks - say Cade - run play action fakes or zone read whether it would be legal and beneficial option to just lay out the quarterback when he is pretending he still has the ball.
We've seen what big hits have done to our qbs over the years.... Im not saying I want to see them hurt, but doing so would likely quickly put a stop to it...