Is it possible to avoid a John O'Neill ref crew?
I love all sports referees. I think that all too often they get a bad rap undeservedly. They make split-second rulings on subtle issues, and slow-motion replay usually backs up their decisions. Generally speaking, I'm not a ref hater.
But John O'Neill's crew tests my faith. He just always seems to rule with a thumb on the scale against Michigan. I don't think the guy is "on the take." Rather, I think it is probably something subconscious that leads him to tilt the game against us. He's probably a nice guy in real life, and I'm sure he's a good ref in a lot of respects, but I don't think we will ever get a well-called game from him.
That said, does anyone know whether it is possible for Michigan to ask the BigTen to use a different ref squad for our games? Why do we always seem to get O'Neill's crew, are crews assigned randomly? Can anything be done to block his crew from calling our games? Lastly, is there anyone out there who disagrees with my premise and thinks that O'Neill's crew actually consistently calls Michigan games fairly?
I'll hang up and listen.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:29 PM ^
It's not just against Michigan.
And his continuing presence on the field seems to prove that there is no real accountability for officiating.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:44 PM ^
Everybody hates him. Penn State in particular hates him as much or more than we do. This is really something the athletic directors ought to get together on one of their chummy zoom calls and sort out. If they can't, who can?
September 10th, 2021 at 2:54 PM ^
Unfortunately, this is one of those situations where if you shoot your shot and miss, you're gonna get fucked by John O'Neill in the next game he officiates for you.
Which is probably why no one is going to shoot their shot.
Or, quite possibly, someone from Michigan, or Penn St, or any of the other schools O'Neill fucked over did shoot their shot. And missed.
September 10th, 2021 at 3:19 PM ^
I think the only route here that would work would be fan pressure getting something into the media. If it looked even-handed enough and got into enough media outlets, you could force the ADs to do something.
The downside is that this would be difficult to do, and if it weren't even-handed I think it would backfire. I mean, you can't fill it with judgement calls that arguably went the wrong way; you have to use examples of clearly blown calls and games that got out of hand because of poorly managed personal fouls.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:31 PM ^
The fact that we all know his name means something is going very wrong.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:25 PM ^
Ed hochoulie (sp?) And tv teddy valentine are literally the only other refs i know by name.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:36 PM ^
When people know officials names it’s because they are either really good which is very unusual or really bad and he falls under the latter category. In basketball TV Ted and Cartensen (sp?)are a few that I hated when they did Michigan games in basketball.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:40 PM ^
There was a college hockey ref while I was in high school and attended a dozen or so college hockey games. Everyone hated him. Shapiro? Schiro? Something like that. Knew he was reffing the second his skates touched the ice because the boos were deafening.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:49 PM ^
Matt Shegos
September 10th, 2021 at 2:51 PM ^
Matt Shegos. He was horrible. Every game followed basically the same pattern, call everything possible in the first period, call nothing at all in the third period, middle period would be halfway in between. Didn't matter what the teams were doing, he didn't deviate from the pattern. So the teams that would clutch and grab (LSSU, MSU) were at a huge advantage once they got through the first period.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:52 PM ^
It was piotrowski (sp?) not Shegos. When Pio would blow yet another call at Yost, one of chants was “we want Shegos”. And that was for Matt not Duke Shegos.
The truly sad thing was that Shegos and Pio were the best two refs in the old CCHA. There were far worse, Graf, Rutherford…
I met Rutherford after he ref’ed a playoff game that he laid another pile of steaming horse [stuff]. He knew it and wasn’t bothered by it.
September 10th, 2021 at 3:17 PM ^
When people know officials names it’s because they are either really good which is very unusual or really bad....
...or you put on a gun show like Ed Hoculi.
September 10th, 2021 at 6:24 PM ^
Terry Wymer is much worse than Carstenson. He's the Buckeye ref who screwed us with the flagrant foul against X for tearing a Buckeye's shirt to brace his fall. Cost us the game.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:47 PM ^
Yep the ones that came to mind besides O’Neill would be TV Teddy, Clete Blakeman, and Angel Hernandez. All of which are trash.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:38 PM ^
I only know the name of one college or pro official. It's John O'Neil and only because no matter what game I watch where he's an official. I have at least 4 or 5 moments when I'm at a loss for words. He is that bad at his job, that I almost feel like he has a black book with dirt on everyone.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:40 PM ^
People blame Warde Manuel for ENTIRELY TOO MUCH.
I'm not saying he could get it done, but I do believe he could strongly influence this. Especially if he had someone in video compile the laundry list of video evidence into something he could share with conference.
September 10th, 2021 at 3:01 PM ^
Warde Manuel: "I'm bringing a motion to fire John O'Neill."
Gene Smith: "I'm going to veto that motion."
Warde Manuel: "WTF? Why? Look at all this video evidence."
Gene Smith: shrug, presses veto button
Fast forward to: The Game - November 2021
Officials: John O'Neill
September 10th, 2021 at 5:49 PM ^
This isn’t even funny because we all know it would happen.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:54 PM ^
I would believe that it has happened more than once.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:45 PM ^
Unfortunately short of the Big Ten firing his crew, UM or any other Big Ten team will not be able to avoid their idiotic officiating. Considering this is the same conference that allowed Ohio slappy officials who were barred from doing the game to do the game in 2016 including an official who outright admitted a bias against Harbaugh I'm not going to hold my breath on them actually holding anyone accountable. Big ten officiating in general in football and basketball is god awful and the same crews generally get brought back year after year. Though O'Neil crew is the only I have seen that makes 2-3 calls every game that defy all reason and logic.
September 10th, 2021 at 4:01 PM ^
Pretty sure the B1G made the 2016 OSU-M ref crew the leagues representatives to do a playoff game that yeat. Apparently the league approved of the job they did that Saturday.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:47 PM ^
Simply ignore the calls. Agree with the other team to alternate calls between the two coaches.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:49 PM ^
I know a guy ......
September 10th, 2021 at 4:26 PM ^
It would be hard to officiate a game with a broken leg or two.
I'm honestly surprised that hasn't happened yet. Not just to him, but shitty refs in general. People lose a lot of money gambling on sports.
September 10th, 2021 at 5:50 PM ^
We all missed you…
September 10th, 2021 at 2:55 PM ^
Totally agree, it's time to assemble the blogosphere masses.
Seth - perhaps a front page article linking to a B1G officiating e-mail address to send our complaints to? someone at Michigan as well? Can we advocate our blog friends out there in the B1G to do the same?
Can we rain unholy e-mail hell on people in a position to make change? Sign me up for the "remove John O'neill army".
September 10th, 2021 at 2:57 PM ^
- I don't think that O'Neill has a bias against Michigan so much as I think he's just a terrible referee with an equally terrible crew.
- Michigan gets the O'Neill crew with no greater frequency than any other Big Ten school. It might seem like Michigan always gets him but it's just because each game officiated by him is awful and therefore sticks out in your mind.
September 10th, 2021 at 3:03 PM ^
I believe the conference does grade refs/crews. They best ones ge the bigger games, generally AFAIK. The best in each conf get the playoffs/NYDBowls.
I don't think M gets these guys more often - in fact, it's probably good we got them early against a MAC team.
They are bad, and everyone likely knows they are bad but someone needs to ref the games and the guys you'd replace them with would have done it already if anyone thought they would be better.
September 11th, 2021 at 5:04 AM ^
Yeah you are right he sucks for every big ten team he refs. Remember that screw job he did on OSU? Yeah me neither. If the ref fucks everyone he is a whore, if he fucks everyone but OSU he is a filthy whore. Dont be a filthy whore O’kneel!
September 10th, 2021 at 3:11 PM ^
What is Michigan's record when O'Neil's crew refs Michigan? That would be an interesting stat to look at.
September 10th, 2021 at 3:17 PM ^
One of the questions to ask when considering replacing someone who is bad at their job: Can we find someone better? In situations like this, the pool of replacement candidates might be incredibly small. Are there any officiating crews in the MAC or other G5 leagues or even FCS that are known to do a consistently good job? Because that’s where the replacement crew mostly likely would come from.
I’d want to know who a potential replacement would be before pursuing termination of this crew. As bad as they seem to be, it absolutely could get worse. Anyone else remember the Sun Belt crew at the 2005 Alamo Bowl?
September 10th, 2021 at 10:04 PM ^
For the love of God, pitch it to Breaston!
September 10th, 2021 at 3:39 PM ^
Honestly I'd root for getting this crew for the Ohio State game. We need variance.
September 10th, 2021 at 3:55 PM ^
There should be a system where coaches rank ref crews before each game - ones they want to ref the upcoming game with the ability to veto use of a couple crews. The most important games (I'm sure you could come up with a metric for this) get first pick of a crew most mutually acceptable to both coaches.
Crews consistently on multiple veto lists ultimately get replaced.
September 10th, 2021 at 4:17 PM ^
I knew Jim Kemerling's name as a kid because he threw the flag on Chris Stapleton's fake punt in the Rose Bowl against USC. Phantom holding. After the game, he bragged to other officials that he threw the flag on that play to screw over Bo in his final game and the PAC 10 official called Bo the following day and ratted him out. Then, for the next decade, Michigan was stuck with that POS as the official every time we had a big game.
I don't know if officials are rotated throughout the conference during a season but the truly bad ones like O'Neil seem to be around more often than they should be.
September 10th, 2021 at 5:06 PM ^
My Buddy’s Dad was roommates with Jim Kemerling at MSU. Kemerling flat out told him any 50-50 calls he would call against Michigan. He is a cocksucker.
Refs should never ever ref their fucking alma mater or even games that effect them. Officiating is a problem and nobody in charge seems to give a shit.
September 10th, 2021 at 7:49 PM ^
And people on an anonymous message board should never be the guy who knows a guy
September 11th, 2021 at 12:43 AM ^
I take pride in my integrity and have been in this community for some time. I’m not here to blow smoke. Believe me or don’t.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:12 PM ^
That's a good point. Maybe each generation of fan has "that one official" who we hate. Kemerling for the USC era, for sure. The phantom touchdown was garbage, of course. I didn't recall the "Bo's last game" incident (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-01-02-sp-135-story.html). But I thought Bo handled it pretty well. He still gave USC its due.
For me, there was a long period during which it seemed like officials were in favor of MSU (e.g., the Desmond trip; the clock operator game).
September 10th, 2021 at 5:44 PM ^
He's terrible. To compound that issue he always seems to appear in critical games that M ends up losing.
September 10th, 2021 at 6:44 PM ^
John O'Neill is my "QAnon". Call it O'Anon I would strap on 4 layers of tinfoil hat and happily consume all evidence, no matter how flimsy, that this dude is corrupt, paid by George Soros (who is obviously an OSU fan), probably doesn't have a birth certificate. There are probably dudes driving around in cars with prefilled A+ performance reviews. I'd continue, but the joke is running its course.
Yeah, fuck him and his whole crew.
September 10th, 2021 at 6:51 PM ^
It’s not a Michigan board if we don’t have at least one ref whining thread on the front page during the season.
This is how I know the season is back.
September 10th, 2021 at 7:29 PM ^
It is if you “know a guy” like I’m sure some at Rutgers do.
September 10th, 2021 at 7:35 PM ^
The officials are graded every week, and are expected to call games according to standards set by the leagues in which they work. Here are a couple of links that might be of interest--they're to sites that refs use.
Interesting article: http://www.footballzebras.com/2020/12/coaches-behavior-in-the-ncaa-is-b…
More active on game days. The NFL section is also interesting for fans of that league: https://refereestats.proboards.com/
Enjoy hanging with the Zebras. :)
September 10th, 2021 at 7:48 PM ^
That said
is it possible not to bitch about referees at the end of the day
when the dust settles
it is what it is
that having been said
wow what a sad narrative
September 10th, 2021 at 8:22 PM ^
It is probably worth noting, when I did the officiating analysis a couple of years ago that detailed strong evidence that Michigan's defensive line was drawing an inconceivably low number of holding calls on opposing offenses; I also did analysis to see if any officiating crews had significantly inconsistent outcomes for Michigan (e.g. bias). I found no evidence.
The guy is just an idiot, not biased towards or against anybody. To steal one from Yost, he just sucks!
September 11th, 2021 at 5:42 AM ^
I thought the visiting team brought the refs? When did that change?