The Michigan Daily asks "Would this be the best win of the Harbaugh era?"
Max Marcovitch in his Michigan Daily column actually makes a better case than I anticipated, in large part because the big wins on the resume aren't very big.
Then I turn on Zach Shaw's and Steve Lorenz's podcast. Shaw wants to open with dispelling the myth that Saturday's game is even all that important.
Honestly, I wasn't aware until just now of a lot "must win!" chatter. As Shaw points out, this is about the most okay-to-lose game on the schedule. Marcovitch acknowledges something similar as well.
But it would be, yes, Harbaugh's first road win with Michigan against a team that is ranked in the Coaches Poll! (MSU was ranked #24 in the AP last year but not Coaches Poll.) Also, his first win at Michigan as an underdog, as previously discussed on the board.
If "best" is defined as "most impressive," I'm hard pressed to find another one. Maybe the Citrus Bowl win over Florida.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:18 AM ^
MSU was bigger last year. Honestly, Wisconsin is most losable conference game on our schedule.
Early in in the year, plenty of time to recover. A loss still lets us control our destiny. It’s a road game against a respectable opponent.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:27 AM ^
I think what you're saying is indisputable, but that's why the question is not is it the "biggest." Is beating last year's MSU team on the road more impressive than beating Wisconsin this year on the road? I think you could still make that argument if you wanted to.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:10 AM ^
It’s impossible to say at this point. We all know MSU wasn’t great last year. How good is Wisconsin this year? The jury is still out.
I think northwestern, the eventual West champ, was probably the best road win of Harbaugh’s career. That team was actually pretty good - not just a “looks good right now” mirage.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:18 AM ^
Good call. At Northwestern does get left out because they looked terrible at the time. At Northwestern 2018 was the best win of the Harbaugh era...doesn't have a great ring to it.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:25 AM ^
Some of that is scheduling. Harbaugh has beaten the piss out of a good PSU team. It just happened at home.
September 20th, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
That was at home. He hasn't shown he can beat very good teams on the road. Northwestern excepted, I suppose.
September 20th, 2019 at 12:23 PM ^
Northwestern was good, not very good, last year.
September 20th, 2019 at 4:57 PM ^
That was at home.
Yeah, I read that somewhere:
Harbaugh has beaten the piss out of a good PSU team. It just happened at home.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:55 AM ^
I mean, I think by definition your potential “biggest win” can’t really also be a potential “bad loss”, right? The whole point of a “big win” is that it comes against a good team.
September 20th, 2019 at 11:08 AM ^
OSU last year would have been the "biggest win." It qualifies as a bad loss.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:23 AM ^
It's an important game, but using harbaugh has never beaten a top 25 coaches poll team on the road, as a point of emphasis for the game is spurious at best. Who cares about the coaches poll, it's the least important of all the unimportant polls.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:06 AM ^
1997 just called in to confirm this take.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:16 AM ^
The media has an amazing ability to discover stats that absolutely nobody would ever give a crap about until they apply to Michigan, at which point they become “historic.” I wish our fanbase wouldn’t do the same.
Media: “Michigan has not won a conference road opener against a team ranked in the top-14 while Mars is in the 7th House in over 50 years.”
Stewert Mandell: “HOLY SH**!!!”
September 20th, 2019 at 7:26 AM ^
I would say yes. If the question was “most important game” the answer may be different. That is always a weird question because each week has independent “importance” that build on each other. But “best win?” All things considered, probably yes, to date it would be.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:32 AM ^
OSU In 16’ we all know JT was short
September 20th, 2019 at 7:54 AM ^
And the refs were corrupt .
but to answer the OP, I think this easily would be the most impressive win if we won . We haven’t beaten an actual “good” team on the road with a pulse ...in forever .
September 20th, 2019 at 8:20 AM ^
True but to be fair, if we win and it turns out Wisconsin isn’t as good as their first two games indicated, it will be written off again by many. So In that regard given we have no idea what Wisconsin actually is yet, I would say it’s not and won’t be unless they are a juggernaut the rest of the year. Harbaugh won’t get get credit for a “big” road win until we (a) beat OSU on the road or (b) overcome some taller odds against what seems like a better team than UW right now. I dunno what the line is now but it was like 3 or 3.5 earlier this week which is basically a push given that home teams get 3 points by default basically.
September 20th, 2019 at 8:40 AM ^
It’s the Michigan narrative, if Michigan wins this weekend Wisconsin isn’t a good team, if they lose then Michigan and Harbaugh are overrated.
I’d say his best home win was Wisconsin 2016 (played for the B1G championship) Colorado in 2016 (should of won the PAC 12 championship) and Penn State in 2016 (won the B1G)
Best road win was MSU last year. Completely dominated a rival.
September 20th, 2019 at 8:44 AM ^
This is true. A win will merely move the line that Harbaugh has to jump over. National talking heads (and some here) will simply restate the stats they love to spew about how 'inept' JH has been in Ann Arbor while glossing over some very valid reasons about why.
September 20th, 2019 at 8:46 AM ^
Style points are going to count too. If we bomb the crap out of them like last year I think people will credit it as a big win.
Until, like you said, Wisconsin loses another game and everyone decides they weren't really that good to begin with.
Just beat OSU and everyone will shut the fuck up. And some of us will be able to stop taking blood pressure meds.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:04 AM ^
That’s how I feel, unfortunately I live in Columbus near downtown. The fans here are horrible. I’ve gotten so much shit for Michigan going to Overtime with Army. Meanwhile, the fans can’t stop talking about how Ohio State has beaten up on FAU, Cincinnati, and Indiana. I’m sure it won’t get any better after this weekend when they beat Miami (NNTM.)
Just beat Ohio State this year and the outside perspective of Harbaugh and Michigan won’t matter.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:09 AM ^
Yeah I'm with you Hatter, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Maybe i'm in the minority but I've more or less moved on from thinking its gonna happen until we see Day start to stumble. The talent train isn't changing there and I'm pretty sure Brady Hoke or Charlie Weiss could win the caliber of guys they pull in, so I'm just trying to enjoy the other 11 games of the season and have fun watching football.
Anyways. Beat Wisconsin.
September 20th, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
September 20th, 2019 at 7:35 AM ^
It would be a good starting point.
September 20th, 2019 at 6:09 PM ^
Yeah, if you have to ask.........................
September 20th, 2019 at 7:36 AM ^
And then Wisconsin loses 5 of their next 6, finishes unranked and beats a SunBelt team in the Crotch Bowl.
These conversations are an incredible waste of time. It'll be our biggest win of 2019 until the next one.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:44 AM ^
Waste of time, yeah okay. But I've got nothing better to do.
September 20th, 2019 at 8:18 AM ^
I'd have to be some kind of hypocrite to judge others for wasting time on MGoBlog. Carry on.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:55 AM ^
There is a way to do an “as it stands” analysis of these questions without reference to what Wisconsin does after this. To make any win dependent on what the other team does after can create a situation where a coach can never have a “big win.” Harbaugh has actually kind of been targeted with that unfair reasoning .
September 20th, 2019 at 7:37 AM ^
Given how the past 4 games have gone and how the team has really looked unprepared, indifferent or out played and out coached, I’d say he better win and show us he’s worth his salary.
September 20th, 2019 at 8:24 AM ^
Take it a step further, of the last 5 games, Michigan has trailed in the second half of 4 of them. No bueno.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:10 AM ^
That is.... a really interesting observation.
September 20th, 2019 at 8:33 AM ^
Bringing up the salary is always dumb. Harbaugh makes what a program like Michigan has to pay. Michigan will never hire someone for less than $5M again - that’s just the market for a HC at a top tier college football program. Has nothing to do with Harbaugh.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:00 AM ^
Also, I will never want a "good for the money" coach from the standpoint of less wins, but paying less per win. Michigan is loaded. We don't use money corruptly, at least, not to any convincing degree. If we aren't going to buy recruits, cool. But they better damned well get the best possible coach they can get, and pay whatever they need to.
September 20th, 2019 at 10:21 AM ^
"We got our coach at Aldi! It's not name brand, but the savings!"
September 20th, 2019 at 10:14 AM ^
Don't tell that to Ryan Day. He may just apply for the UM gig. It's still early to tell, but his $4.5 million salary may be a value.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:00 PM ^
Right but who cares if all other teams laugh and chortle at Michigan's money cannon- we have one and we use it so who cares whether the performance of our coach has no relation to succes - money, fame, national prestige - we got it!
September 20th, 2019 at 6:18 PM ^
Some might say its embarrassing paying national championship money for...? But I say who cares how much we pay our head coach relative to the success of others- we are rich and powerful enough that we can pay double the market price just because!
September 20th, 2019 at 9:04 PM ^
Wow Spicoli... that's absolute nonsense! Harbaugh got paid the overloaded salary due to his prior performance at Stanford and Sanfran, combined with the fact that he's a "Michigan Man" for whatever that means. You're always full of this nonsense... the only other coaches that are being paid his level of salary are elite programs running for the NC or Conference titles.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:38 AM ^
Huge win. Ohio State left a bad taste in even the most ardent Harbaugh defenders mouth. Beating a #13th ranked Wisconsin on the road after the offense looking horrid against Army would be a big statement to the national media
September 20th, 2019 at 9:11 AM ^
While I agree, I suspect that the two outcome narratives nationally would be 1) Michigan loses, Harbaugh is on the hot seat, or 2) Michigan wins, Wisconsin wasn't that good of a team, Harbaugh needs to beat OSU.
September 20th, 2019 at 9:22 AM ^
People keep posting this and the fact remains - Harbaugh DOES need to beat OSU. You might be able to rationalize 0/4 but he’s getting fired before it gets to 0/10, if it comes to that. It’s just a question of how many chances you think are reasonable.
September 20th, 2019 at 11:36 AM ^
OSU fan here.
You don't want Michigan to be praised in the national media for beating Wisconsin. Indiana, Illinois, Purdue get praised for beating them. Not the group you want to be in. When the national media starts making a big deal out of the fact that you beat Wisconsin, that is when you know you have problems.
Playing Wisconsin is a no-win situation for an elite team. You beat them, who cares? You lose, then wow.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:48 AM ^
I think this game will indicate how the rest of this season is likely to go. And with it, probably Harbaugh’s future as the coach here. In that sense I’d say it’s a must-win for him, yes....not because it’s more important than upcoming games, but because it tells us how those games will go.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:51 AM ^
It’ll be the most shocking win on the road in Harbaugh tenure.
September 20th, 2019 at 11:40 AM ^
If Wisconsin is as good as they seem, this would be the best team he's beaten on the road. Currently, Northwestern last year is the best team we've beaten on the road, but we didn't know that when the game was played. Last year's MSU game was also good, but we expected to win due to Sparty's offense being terrible.
This would easily be the most unexpected win if he pulls it off. Assuming Wisconsin doesn't fall apart afterwards, which I have a hard time seeing.
September 20th, 2019 at 7:52 AM ^
God, this "never beat a ranked team on the road" shit drives me crazy. Now it's "never beat a team ranked in the coaches poll," as if that's an even slightly relevant statistic. After we win the next one, it'll be "never beat a healthy ranked team on the road." Then "never beat a top ten team on the road." Then whatever else is necessary for all the whiners to get their whining in.
I mean, I know the Harbaugh era has not been the flamethrower beast we all hoped it would be, but for people thinking we don't have big wins and this game is the MOST IMPORTANT EVAR, we stomped Wisconsin, MSU, and PSU in a 3-game stretch last year. We have two neutral site wins over ranked Florida teams, and many other good wins. I don't know how many times I've heard that an upcoming game is the most important game of Harbaugh's tenure or "must win." 10? 15?
Give it a rest.
September 20th, 2019 at 8:16 AM ^
No, this definitely the one, LJ.
Harbaugh wins this one and there will be no more criticism. Fans and media alike will turn to each other with an approving nod that NOW it has been proven - Jim Harbaugh is a good football coach.
This is what they've been waiting for to validate his legacy: a win over..(incredulous chuckle)... #13 Wisconsin.
September 20th, 2019 at 8:26 AM ^
Utter nonsense. Harbaugh has never beaten a team on the road as an outright dog.
But please tell us, if not now when? What games do the cult of Harbaugh consider important.
Lol if Michigan loses this weekend the firestorm in the media and fanbase is going to be crazy.