Good.
April 24th, 2024 at 10:11 AM ^
LOL, he broke the rules. They were stupid rules, but it's not like Bush getting money and lavish treatment was any sort of courageous stand. He was good at football and getting pampered under the table for it, and knew all of it was not allowed at the time.
I kind of don't really care -- the Heisman is a joke award anyway -- but this isn't justice; it's just a stupid issue coming full circle.
April 24th, 2024 at 10:46 AM ^
Sure. It's like a very small lowercase good. Better than a bad.
April 24th, 2024 at 10:47 AM ^
Yeah, I think it's dumb that they took the Heisman from him because lots of guys were likely guilty of similar infractions but they were also rules that everyone knew about and he was dumb enough to get caught by the NCAA for it.
And he didn't really suffer anything in the intervening years - he couldn't be on some dumb Heisman House commercials but he was a first round NFL pick, got paid millions of dollars, won a SB, has been handsomely paid for years to be an analyst, has Wendy's commercials, briefly dated Kim Kardashian, and now just got his Heisman back.
April 24th, 2024 at 10:55 AM ^
Just curious, are you for or against the Fab 5 being re-instated and the banners going up?
April 24th, 2024 at 11:00 AM ^
Against.
April 24th, 2024 at 11:40 AM ^
And should TatGate’s vacated wins be reinstated? Tressel honored? What’s good for Reggie is good for Ohio.
I don’t agree with this. I’m tired of seeing media pressure being used against institutions to force them to make stupid one off decisions. Wouldn’t a Michigan fan agree after last year?
But if you support Reggie, then trading signatures for tats was far less than what Reggie did.
There are a lot of lesser scandals than Reggie Bush’s payments. They were all at a time when the rules were different. But those those were the rules. let’s not waste our time rewriting all the record books on trivial stuff.
April 24th, 2024 at 11:43 AM ^
They were trading signatures and OSU apparel for drugs- The media portrayed it as tats but that was a minor part of the payments
April 24th, 2024 at 12:07 PM ^
Worthy clarification, but upon further review the ruling on the field stands.
The only difference is the NCAA never told Michgian to take the banners down. The NCAA never told Michigan to vacate any wins; Michigan punished itself for violating an NCAA rule that was not legal.
We are not discussing Ohio State right now. We are talking about the Fab Fives banners, which were taken down because one player from that team took money from someone he knew before he even enrolled at Michigan.
The NCAA had no authority to tell Chris Webber he could not take money; the NCAA broke the rules, and the university bowed to the NCAA's threat of punishment. It was wrong then; it is terrible now. Thankfully, Coach Harbaugh stepped up and finally did the right thing, inviting him back to be captain for the Penn State game.
April 24th, 2024 at 11:42 AM ^
No and yes.
No, I'm against the Fab 5 being reinstated. Ed Martin was dirty. This wasn't burger receipts shit. The Feds got involved and Webber almost went to prison.
Yes, I am in favor of hanging banners because in general the NCAA is corrupt shit, so I'm fine with putting up a line of giant middle fingers in defiance of their hypocritical and petty treatment of Michigan Athletics. Hanging banners doesn't re-legitimize the Fab 5, nor should it, but I'm OK with a show of "fuck the NCAA".
If I could change the question, though, I feel like those are the wrong banners. Michigan should put up a "2013 National Champions" banner because that team was clean, the block was clean, and Louisville was tainted. Fuck "nobody won" nonsense.
What does an official NCAA record book look like, anyway? How many gaps are in the books from vacated championships because they don't have the guts to anoint the proper victors?
April 24th, 2024 at 12:45 PM ^
Ed Martin ran numbers and evaded paying income taxes. He laundered money by giving it to the parents of basketball players heading to Illinois, Missouri, and Michigan with the idea that they would someday return a favor if necessary. Webber almost went to prison because he doesn’t know how to answer questions and became a hostile witness. I have seen a number of Webber interviews and he appears lost on anything other than basketball.
April 24th, 2024 at 12:51 PM ^
He's an odd fellow. I have never seen him acknowledge emotion or discuss any connection with people, things, or places in a manner that appears as a genuine expression of feelings. Clearly I don't know Chris Webber but his emotional affect seemed to stop in its tracks at The Timeout and he seemed completely unrelatable after that.
He also went from seemingly having a burning desire to win to not particularly caring all that much. His game also went from power and will to finesse and almost aversion to contact. The Chris Webber that played in college never played in the NBA.
April 24th, 2024 at 12:03 PM ^
I am for that... Hang 'em back up
April 24th, 2024 at 11:30 AM ^
He was good at football and getting pampered under the table for it
That's called engaging in commerce. Radical concept, I know.
LOL, he broke the rules. They were stupid rules, but it's not like Bush getting money and lavish treatment was any sort of courageous stand.
The rules weren't just stupid. They were illegal and morally bankrupt. The NCAA engaged in an illegal, exploitative scheme to hoard billions in profits while prohibiting the athletes whose labor generated those profits from seeking even a penny from the pot. And they knew that what they were doing was in blatant violation of federal antitrust law, but they did it anyway. That's why they got benchslapped 9-0 by SCOTUS.
So yes, Reggie Bush getting back what's rightfully his IS a form of justice in the ongoing battle to kill off the NCAA once and for all. If the circumstances were exactly the same except that Bush had played at Michigan, we would all be singing his praises. Take off the maize and blue glasses for just a moment and recognize that this is a victory for justice.
April 24th, 2024 at 11:43 AM ^
That's called engaging in commerce.
In the sense that any fraud is "engaging in commerce," yeah.
The weeping claims that players didn't get "even a penny from the pot" is ludicrous, as its the idea that the NCAA has some scheme to "hoard billions in profits" (where are they hoarding it?). College sports is a money-draining activity, not one generating "billions in profits." Almost every dollar taken in by university athletic departments is spent on the athletes, their trainers, and their facilities. Players get plenty out of the deal, which is why they agree to it.
The players are not worth millions, as demonstrated by the fact that no one is offering them millions to abandon the college game and come play for an equivalent professional league. The tiny fraction that do make it to the pros do so because of the training, conditioning, and coaching they receive from the colleges.
Reggie Bush cheated to get where he got (though he could have gotten most of that without cheating). I don't celebrate rewarding the cheaters, even after two decades.
April 24th, 2024 at 12:55 PM ^
Wow. Looks like we've found some defenders of the NCAA's morally bankrupt and now discredited business model. I guess we know now why it took so long for it to be struck down, and why the NCAA is dying such a slow death.
The NCAA's illegal scheme prohibited the players from earning any money not just from the schools, but from potential endorsement deals to which neither the NCAA nor the schools would have been a party. Meanwhile, the NCAA had few or no rules that restricted itself or the schools or the coaches from doing their own deals with TV networks, corporate sponsors, boosters, or anyone else who was willing to fork over money to them in exchange for a shout out. That was a textbook violation of antitrust law. Even the NCAA didn't dispute this; what they argued (with a straight face, apparently) was that antitrust law didn't apply to them. In other words, the NCAA didn't dispute that its bullshit scheme was exploitative, but that it should be allowed to continue its bullshit scheme because reasons.
The rules were to create a fair playing field and eliminate impermissible benefits. There is nothing morally bankrupt about that. As some schools got better at hiding stuff the NCAA created rules to give it more power to find and root it out. It got to the point of too much overreach and an abuse of power. The pendulum swung in the wrong direction too far because schools like USC and the SEC tried to get around the rules. The old strict rules kept it more simple to administrate but it was still impossible.
Now we have a new situation where overly litigious schools and state governments that like an unfair playing field for their teams, and it’s become impossible to administer any rules for fairness. Having athletes transfer schools every year based on NIL inducements may be legal according to the constitution but it is not sustainable.
Unsustainable? So allowing schools, coaches, conferences, TV networks, corporate sponsors, and the NCAA itself to profit from the labor of college athletes to the tune of billions of dollars while prohibiting the athletes (many of whom are from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds) from so much as accepting a free slice of pizza was sustainable? And you don't find that to be morally bankrupt?
I didn’t say that. Players should get paid out of revenue. But those old rules, before all the TV money, were an attempt for fairness between schools during a time when college expenses and a degree were meaningful. And that system was sustainable for 50+ years until cable TV became common and TV money grew out of control.
Just because things change doesn’t mean appropriate at a certain time in history. All kinds of laws have to change as we progress and technology changes.
Now, players should get paid out of the revenue instead of just earning NIL. And there should be something equivalent to salary caps for fairness. The current out of control state of affairs using NIL from collectives which exploit loopholes to buy players with rich football obsessed alumni at the expense of other schools is unsustainable. Just take a scan of all the coaches leaving, including Harbaugh, who agree the current system is unsustainable. Are you going to disagree with them?
April 24th, 2024 at 11:11 PM ^
The current state of affairs is indeed unsustainable. And you know how that state of affairs came about? It came about from the NCAA's hypocrisy and obstinacy in dying on the hill of an illegal and morally bankrupt business model. The NCAA fought tooth and nail to preserve its exploitative model for decades, long after collegiate athletics became a lucrative enterprise from which everyone but the players were profiting handsomely. If the NCAA had listened to its lawyers, its student athletes, the persistent public criticism it received for decades, etc. and recognized that it was fighting a losing battle, then it could have put guardrails around NIL and allowed athletes to profit from their talents within a regulated landscape on the NCAA's terms. Instead, the NCAA took its futile battle all the way to SCOTUS, got benchslapped, and sacrificed its last remaining shred of credibility. And now, we have a chaotic free-for-all.
I'd buy this concept if TV networks and Universities are not making billions of dollars. But, they are making billions, and there's nothing fair about not allowing the people generating that money to profit. There wasn't anything then or now that makes that ok.
April 24th, 2024 at 11:38 AM ^
He was punished for breaking an NCAA rule that violated the Sherman Act, which means the NCAA is actually the one who broke the rules by not allowing him to be compensated.
April 24th, 2024 at 11:45 AM ^
The NCA rule against accepting untaxed and unregulated money under the table has not been declared a violation of the Sherman Act.
April 24th, 2024 at 12:34 PM ^
Yet, the NCAA did not declare him ineligible, which is why the Heisman Trust stripped him of the award, for "accepting untaxed and unregulated money under the table." They declared him ineligible for accepting "improper benefits". Whether he paid taxes or not has nothing to do with the NCAA or the Heisman Trust.
The Heisman is a joke award? I know several SC players that were on the team and they are very happy for their teammate.
April 24th, 2024 at 11:32 AM ^
Formal re-instatement ceremony to be held on this seasons Keeping Up with the Kardashians.
Hang the banners!!!
Do Warde and Santa have the balls to do so? My guess is no.
April 24th, 2024 at 10:21 AM ^
Warde would hang himself before he sullied the good name of the NCAA by hanging the banners.
April 24th, 2024 at 10:42 AM ^
They absolutely need to hang them back up, and while they are at it, hang another banner up recognizing the Fab Five to go with the other numbers hanging in the rafters.
April 24th, 2024 at 12:07 PM ^
So we should honor a team that had members who were clearly breaking the rules? Why would we do that and what is to discourage our current players from breaking the rules. I loved the Fab five, I think they were amazing. But Weber clearly broke the rules of that time and this is the punishment.
April 24th, 2024 at 12:37 PM ^
What rule did he break again? The rule that federal courts have said is not legal? That rule?
The Federal Courts change their minds. They recently reversed other rules. Applying your logic, we should go back and prosecute everyone who broke state laws that were on the books but blocked for the last 50 years. I don’t think so.
Yes, we should honor teams that had players who broke stupid rules. Happy to answer your question.
Good. Took way to long.
Hey Pete, would the installation of helmet communication between the sideline and a designated player on the field constitute “enormous changes in the college football landscape?"
Kinda seems like it does. Which means punishing a team for breaking a rule (if indeed they did break a rule) that no longer exists seems kinda remote now doesnt it?
Your buddies at OSU are going to lose their collective minds when this precedent is used to drop whatever investigation they might've been conducting into sign-gate.
April 24th, 2024 at 10:35 AM ^
Also, Reggie Bush files a lawsuit and the NCAA backs down, Tennessee takes action and the NCAA backs down, Michigan does nothing and the NCAA grinds them into the ground for cheeseburgers and signs…. I love Michigan but can somebody please grow a pair and fight. The NCAA must be going broke because they sure don’t seem interested in paying for lawsuits so why not file one and find out.
April 24th, 2024 at 11:20 AM ^
Are you telling me that the NCAA now allows sideline recording and in season scouting? Because I don't think the change allowing helmet communication does any of that. Sure there will be no signs to steal now, if everyone will call plays via headset, but I haven't heard of any changes to the sideline recording or in-season scouting rules, which are the rules we were charged with breaking.
OJ has had a great couple weeks.
First, his ex-wife's murderer died, and today, he can indirectly claim credit for Reggie getting his Heisman back.
Is he now allowed entry to the Heisman House?
Next up in the Heisman House is sending OJ's corpse to a taxidermist, getting it stuffed and stretched so he looks like he's hurdling things in a Hertz ad, then putting it on display out by the driveway.
April 24th, 2024 at 11:51 AM ^
Can't share the picture, because it's not a GIF, but FB official as of this morning that Heisman House is geeked:
https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/nissanheismanhouse
Good. He should have it restored. Took too long.
Enormous Change #1:
The NCAA, having been revealed as a corrupt and toothless organization, permits the Heisman organization to tell them that they can (and I quote) "GTFO".
Enormous Change #2
Anything goes in today's College Footbal landscape, including anything that draws attention to yourself or your organization.
***except for Michigan
Apples to oranges
Name checks out. :-)
Michigan sees this and immediately places an 11 year ban on the bball team and renounces the name Fab Five!!!!
SHAME.
SHAME.
As he should. Happy to hear for Reggie.