Cade v JJ CSU using Harbaugh’s evaluation criteria

Submitted by BlueSky on September 4th, 2022 at 4:15 PM

On the Jansen podcast where Harbaugh announced the QB plan for the first two games, Coach was asked how he would evaluate the QBs.  He said how he always does:

1. As a passer - accuracy, timing, etc.

2. Playmaker - make play from nothing, runner, etc.

3. Field general - move the team. Points per drive

He also gave 4 metrics 

A. Points per drive. (Most important)

B. 3rd down efficiency

C. Red zone efficiency 

D. 2 minute efficiency 

Obviously, with JJ still to get his start, it’s not a completely fair comparison, and we don’t get to see practice or practice numbers.  But let’s look at Harbaugh’s eval criteria for Saturday’s game.

I would give all 3 of the qualities of a QB to JJ in this game.  In practice, Harbaugh gave the passer edge to Cade, the playmaker to JJ and the field general with slight edge to Cade.

The metrics:               Cade              JJ

Points/drive           23/7 = 3.3        14/2 = 7

3rd down eff            1/7 = 14%       1/1 = 100%

Red zone eff            1/4 = 25%       2/2 = 100%

2 min eff                   3.                     N/A

Red zone eff I used simple TD per opportunity 

2 min eff is points per opportunity

Sample size disparities are apparent and there will be more clarity after Hawaii.  It will be interesting to revisit Harbaugh’s evaluation criteria and metrics after game two.
 


 

 

michengin87

September 5th, 2022 at 4:59 AM ^

He actually had 2 fumbles that day.  He had fumbled one out of bounds just shortly before the fateful turnover that allowed MSU to take the lead.

Let's see how well JJ takes care of the ball this weekend.  That's really the only knock on the guy.  If he can take care of the ball and does the other things he capable of doing, it will be very hard for Cade to reclaim the starter spot.

JonnyHintz

September 4th, 2022 at 9:52 PM ^

Okay but that’s not HIS performance. That’s a team accomplishment. You, as an individual, don’t get the benefit of the doubt based on something the team did. You can be an awful player and the team win in spite of you, but why would that save your spot? Not saying Cade was awful, just giving an example.
 

What did CADE do performance wise to earn that benefit of the doubt? 

JonnyHintz

September 5th, 2022 at 12:20 PM ^

Why would I need to edit my post? Nothing I said was wrong. 
 

Not to mention, those are two examples that don’t really disprove my point. Michigan lost 14-10 to MSU and Michigan had the ball with 2:36 left down 24-20 against OSU with O’Korn. So for as bad as O’Korn was, Michigan was in position to win both of those games. 
 

What people like YOU are trying to tell me is that even though O’Korn was bad, the only thing he would have had to do is lead a TD drive late against OSU for the win to be the unquestioned starter. Is that what you’re trying to tell me? Because that’s what you’re saying. 

brad

September 5th, 2022 at 2:05 AM ^

We should stop comparing Cade to Tom Brady.  In 1999, Brady was a very good college QB, and some pundits and fans thought he was not good enough because he was operating in Coach Carr's very conservative offense.

Cade is benefitting from that error in judgement today.  People think now that Cade is just trapped in Harbaugh's conservative offense, and he must be another Tom Brady.  He's not trapped or being held back, or being told not to hit an open guy down field.  He's just not looking for that part of the passing game.  It's ok for us to acknowledge this, and to allow Cade not to be even the college version of Tom freaking Brady.

Goggles Paisano

September 5th, 2022 at 6:37 AM ^

I'm reading thru the comments and it just seems a bit unfair to Cade.  He was really good last year.  I've always been in the JJ camp just to be clear.  If Cade were to start against Hawaii, I'm certain he would play much better.  He just had a bad game.  Now the board consensus is that the job is JJ's and Cade will transfer out.  I think we are jumping the gun a bit here. 

There is a lot of football to play and each guy is only one snap away from being the dude.  Last year at this time Stetson Bennett wasn't even a thought as Georgia's starter.  Now look at him. 

With all that said, I expect JJ to get the nod going forward.  Not sure if that means Cade goes to backup or if he will get a series or two each game.  I do think there will be time where Cade is needed and he will shine in that moment.  That just seems to be in the kid's character.    

willirwin1778

September 4th, 2022 at 4:23 PM ^

Other than not having a sample size or an apples to apples comparison (early competitive game vs. late game over duty), you should definitely use this method to make your decisions.    

I enjoy mgoblog most of the time.  But if the regular commentators and trolls on this site had their way.

1.  Harbaugh would be fired prior to winning a big ten championship because of a bad covid year.

2.  Cade would have been benched prior to getting the team to the playoffs and a big ten championship

I hear the site's authors and posters make definitive statements, predictions and updates about players, such as McGregor and Anoma (both well documented), that are pretty wrong based on yesterday's in game results.  Mgoblog and it's authors simply keep getting important things incorrect.  That being said, I am pretty sure this forum isn't going to have any sway in decision making because its track record is ridiculously bad when it matters most.  

You can neg all you want, but we won a big ten championship last year with Harbaugh and Cade, thanks Mgoblog for trying to fire them.  

KBLOW

September 4th, 2022 at 5:17 PM ^

Holier than thou comments like yours provide nothing and in this case are just revisionist history with little basis in the reality of what was said here, who said it, and how many people you claim said it. But here's a cookie for being so much more fair and reasonable than the apparent entirety of MGoBlog. Congrats! 

UMForLife

September 4th, 2022 at 6:17 PM ^

MGoBlog did play a small part in pointing out shenanigans of a former AD. They don't always get it right but it does not mean they are always wrong. They get many things right. 

We all hope for the best QB to play, whoever it is this year. If it is Cade, glad to have him. We will see what happens at Iowa. If JJ starts and blows them out, would you still stay the same thing? Competition is good and getting the best player to play is also good. 

MJG

September 4th, 2022 at 4:36 PM ^

This game and the next game really should tell us very little. Both defenses are bad and Michigan’s play calling was vanilla in the first game. I’m curious who will play better during crunch time, in a tight game, against a quality opponent. We haven’t seen JJ much in that situation. 

Ezekiels Creatures

September 4th, 2022 at 5:56 PM ^

I love what Cade McNamara did against Nebraska, Penn St, and almost all game against Ohio St. And he actually did some good things here and there against Georgia too. I would hope that if Jim Harbaugh is going to make the change, that JJ McCarthy will come through just as good, or better. Because I was thinking, that in 2021 Cade McNamara was cutting his teeth, and there will only be better this year.

MgoBlueprint

September 4th, 2022 at 4:41 PM ^

It wasn't close. cade's numbers yesterday were similar to his numbers last year, especially in the redzone. I was behind the bench. It is JJ's team. The energy he had, him running on to the field to high-five the offense between series and long ass media timeouts, and especially when Orji, Bowman, and Warren went out there and jumped on him after his second scoring drive cemented it to me that it's his team. 

I think that cade knew it as well when Jim announced the qb starting situation. I think Jim also laid out the metrics as both a rationale for the decision and a chance for cade to win it back. 

I really hope that cade and JJ have a bond this season that is similar to Joe Milton and Hendon Hooker down in Knoxville

brad

September 4th, 2022 at 4:42 PM ^

JJ does look better on paper by this criteria, and I expect he will be the most effective QB all year.  But I hope Cade pulls himself together for the sake of his team and both are prepared to play at a high level at Iowa.

Speed_in_Space

September 4th, 2022 at 4:46 PM ^

I'm wondering if this wasn't orchestrated by Jim Harbaugh. He wanted to give Cade a shot at the job out of respect for what he did for the team last year, especially after him being named team captain to not split the locker room; but perhaps he's known all along JJ was going to take the job.

The offense just feels clunky and plodding when Cade is the QB but feels cohesive when JJ is the QB.

The Deer Hunter

September 4th, 2022 at 6:09 PM ^

Great point here SiS and just to tag on. 

I saw an article on mlive where Saban had enough of all the questions of who the starters are and basically tore up the depth charts. The starters are whomever performs at the position and gives the team the best chance of success. Not a Saban fan but it makes sense. 

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2022/09/nick-saban-declares-war-on-depth-charts-i-know-yall-think-im-crazy.html

Bo Harbaugh

September 4th, 2022 at 4:49 PM ^

Weird take here...

While we'd all like to see both QB's perform at a high level, yesterday Cade may have really let Jim off the hook. He makes the switch to JJ much easier - not that Harbaugh is known to overthink difficult or controversial decisions.

Seems Harbaugh, like most that follow the program closely, know that JJ is the future sooner or later, but Cade is a leader in the locker room, was voted captain, and it's hard to bench a returning B1G champion QB who helped changed the culture of the football program.

If JJ plays really well next week, Jim isn't making a decision between two QB's that played lights out against poor competition, but will be choosing JJ (the hot hand) over Cade - based on their respective performances against poor competition - not just based on the theoretical JJ "higher ceiling"

Cade can be upset, but he was given the opportunity to win, or at least stay slightly ahead in the competition which was eventually going to be won by JJ.  Jim now has the necessary "evidence" to replace Cade with JJ.

That said, Cade needs to remain a leader in the locker room, support JJ, and remain ready for action, because undoubtedly we will need him at some point this year.  JJ runs a ton and could get banged up, or may simply be having a clunker of a game against solid competition where Cade can come in a and play hero.

.....and then, we can wash, rinse, repeat the controversy all over again :)

 

The Oracle 2

September 5th, 2022 at 12:43 AM ^

But one of the most important factors is that it isn’t “sooner or later” for McCarthy, or any other highly rated prospect in today’s college football, especially since McCarthy has also shown his immense talent on the field. The coaches know it’s more like now or never than sooner or later because players can leave so easily. I think McCarthy is clearly superior to McNamara now, but even if McNamara was slightly better at this moment, the choice would still be McCarthy because of the implications for the future.

Amazinblu

September 4th, 2022 at 4:52 PM ^

I’m a Michigan fan - and my wishes for every student athlete - in every sport - is that they reach their potential - stay healthy - and excel both on the field and in the classroom.  So, after their “experience” at Michigan is complete - they’re in a position to contribute to their profession - their family - and community - throughout their lives.

That being said - it seems like there are two fine young men competing to be the starting QB.  Both have strengths - and, regardless of the decision, one will be disappointed in a couple (or few) weeks.

For whatever reason, Cade did not execute as effectively as he could have during the possessions / drives he led.  There were missed / inaccurate throws - which impacted the efficiency and scoring.

JJ will start under center next Saturday.  We really won’t learn much in that game - or the following day one (against UCONN).  Maryland will tell us something - and, going in the road after that - will tell the biggest tale.

Again - wishing them both - and the entire team - nothing but the best.  Go Blue!

Catchafire

September 4th, 2022 at 4:53 PM ^

Let JJ have a full game.  It's easy to write Cade off but he is proven.

That being said, I do think JJ offers a gear that Cade doesn't.  In particular, JJ has the threat to run.  He needs to take care of himself.