Cade v JJ CSU using Harbaugh’s evaluation criteria
On the Jansen podcast where Harbaugh announced the QB plan for the first two games, Coach was asked how he would evaluate the QBs. He said how he always does:
1. As a passer - accuracy, timing, etc.
2. Playmaker - make play from nothing, runner, etc.
3. Field general - move the team. Points per drive
He also gave 4 metrics
A. Points per drive. (Most important)
B. 3rd down efficiency
C. Red zone efficiency
D. 2 minute efficiency
Obviously, with JJ still to get his start, it’s not a completely fair comparison, and we don’t get to see practice or practice numbers. But let’s look at Harbaugh’s eval criteria for Saturday’s game.
I would give all 3 of the qualities of a QB to JJ in this game. In practice, Harbaugh gave the passer edge to Cade, the playmaker to JJ and the field general with slight edge to Cade.
The metrics: Cade JJ
Points/drive 23/7 = 3.3 14/2 = 7
3rd down eff 1/7 = 14% 1/1 = 100%
Red zone eff 1/4 = 25% 2/2 = 100%
2 min eff 3. N/A
Red zone eff I used simple TD per opportunity
2 min eff is points per opportunity
Sample size disparities are apparent and there will be more clarity after Hawaii. It will be interesting to revisit Harbaugh’s evaluation criteria and metrics after game two.
September 5th, 2022 at 4:59 AM ^
He actually had 2 fumbles that day. He had fumbled one out of bounds just shortly before the fateful turnover that allowed MSU to take the lead.
Let's see how well JJ takes care of the ball this weekend. That's really the only knock on the guy. If he can take care of the ball and does the other things he capable of doing, it will be very hard for Cade to reclaim the starter spot.
September 5th, 2022 at 12:15 PM ^
Well no, he fumbled one out of bounds. Which wouldn’t qualify as a “big mistake” and the other fumble, as has been pointed out multiple times, was on Corum.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:55 PM ^
McNamara deserves any benefit of the doubt based on past performance.
People keep saying things like this, but I’m not sure which past performance they’re referring to that should earn him the benefit of the doubt in a QB battle.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:00 PM ^
Based on last year - B1G Championship.
But, that doesn’t guarantee one this year.
I think the evaluation will go into B1G games and one will separate from the other.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:52 PM ^
Okay but that’s not HIS performance. That’s a team accomplishment. You, as an individual, don’t get the benefit of the doubt based on something the team did. You can be an awful player and the team win in spite of you, but why would that save your spot? Not saying Cade was awful, just giving an example.
What did CADE do performance wise to earn that benefit of the doubt?
September 5th, 2022 at 7:54 AM ^
You should go rewatch O'Korn okay vs MSU and OSU and then edit your post..
September 5th, 2022 at 12:20 PM ^
Why would I need to edit my post? Nothing I said was wrong.
Not to mention, those are two examples that don’t really disprove my point. Michigan lost 14-10 to MSU and Michigan had the ball with 2:36 left down 24-20 against OSU with O’Korn. So for as bad as O’Korn was, Michigan was in position to win both of those games.
What people like YOU are trying to tell me is that even though O’Korn was bad, the only thing he would have had to do is lead a TD drive late against OSU for the win to be the unquestioned starter. Is that what you’re trying to tell me? Because that’s what you’re saying.
September 5th, 2022 at 12:33 AM ^
The Brady Henson comparison is two decades old and McNamara isn’t remotely Brady. And McCarthy isn’t remotely just another backup QB. The “competition” was decided before it began.it’s over, Johnny.
September 5th, 2022 at 7:56 AM ^
At their times in their college career? Absolutely they were. Cade may be better at this stage. Memory is incredibly vain, and nobody wanted Brady to play over Henson.
September 5th, 2022 at 9:53 AM ^
Cade is absolutely not better. It isn't close.
September 5th, 2022 at 2:05 AM ^
We should stop comparing Cade to Tom Brady. In 1999, Brady was a very good college QB, and some pundits and fans thought he was not good enough because he was operating in Coach Carr's very conservative offense.
Cade is benefitting from that error in judgement today. People think now that Cade is just trapped in Harbaugh's conservative offense, and he must be another Tom Brady. He's not trapped or being held back, or being told not to hit an open guy down field. He's just not looking for that part of the passing game. It's ok for us to acknowledge this, and to allow Cade not to be even the college version of Tom freaking Brady.
September 5th, 2022 at 9:34 AM ^
To me, the real question is, right now who do you trust more to go into Kinnick on a Saturday night and beat Iowa? I'm not suggesting the answer, just saying that is how I would look at it as of today.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:34 PM ^
I don't know who will be named starter in week 3, or whatever week it will happen in. But you really think if McNamara is 2nd string he's going to stay at M for 2 more years?
September 5th, 2022 at 6:37 AM ^
I'm reading thru the comments and it just seems a bit unfair to Cade. He was really good last year. I've always been in the JJ camp just to be clear. If Cade were to start against Hawaii, I'm certain he would play much better. He just had a bad game. Now the board consensus is that the job is JJ's and Cade will transfer out. I think we are jumping the gun a bit here.
There is a lot of football to play and each guy is only one snap away from being the dude. Last year at this time Stetson Bennett wasn't even a thought as Georgia's starter. Now look at him.
With all that said, I expect JJ to get the nod going forward. Not sure if that means Cade goes to backup or if he will get a series or two each game. I do think there will be time where Cade is needed and he will shine in that moment. That just seems to be in the kid's character.
September 5th, 2022 at 3:24 PM ^
Your last sentence is really well articulated. Will he remain a great leader and comport himself like a captain? Or will Cade be derisive and attempt to divide the team?
September 4th, 2022 at 4:23 PM ^
Other than not having a sample size or an apples to apples comparison (early competitive game vs. late game over duty), you should definitely use this method to make your decisions.
I enjoy mgoblog most of the time. But if the regular commentators and trolls on this site had their way.
1. Harbaugh would be fired prior to winning a big ten championship because of a bad covid year.
2. Cade would have been benched prior to getting the team to the playoffs and a big ten championship
I hear the site's authors and posters make definitive statements, predictions and updates about players, such as McGregor and Anoma (both well documented), that are pretty wrong based on yesterday's in game results. Mgoblog and it's authors simply keep getting important things incorrect. That being said, I am pretty sure this forum isn't going to have any sway in decision making because its track record is ridiculously bad when it matters most.
You can neg all you want, but we won a big ten championship last year with Harbaugh and Cade, thanks Mgoblog for trying to fire them.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:27 PM ^
The OP clearly said “it will be interesting to revisit these metrics” after Hawaii. He did not say “these metrics will tell all” after Hawaii.
I agree it will be interesting. Definitive? Nope. Interesting? absolutely.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:17 PM ^
Holier than thou comments like yours provide nothing and in this case are just revisionist history with little basis in the reality of what was said here, who said it, and how many people you claim said it. But here's a cookie for being so much more fair and reasonable than the apparent entirety of MGoBlog. Congrats!
September 4th, 2022 at 5:32 PM ^
Your right! Please ignore what I said. It definitely would be awesome if we were just starting to rebuild our entire team with an Iowa State coach that went 7-6 last year and lost the Cheez It bowl.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:17 PM ^
MGoBlog did play a small part in pointing out shenanigans of a former AD. They don't always get it right but it does not mean they are always wrong. They get many things right.
We all hope for the best QB to play, whoever it is this year. If it is Cade, glad to have him. We will see what happens at Iowa. If JJ starts and blows them out, would you still stay the same thing? Competition is good and getting the best player to play is also good.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:59 PM ^
What happened to the former AD was an “open and shut case” primarily solved by the fans who communicated directly with that AD.
There was a need to foia and publish and mgoblog served as a messenger.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:41 PM ^
I, too, came to MGoBlog for
- the authors’ omniscience in all things and utter infallibility
- the calm and level headed reasonable discussions that pervade this and every other message board on the internet
i would like to speak to a manager.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:11 PM ^
I come here to listen to ideas that are the "complete opposite" of what actually will happen in real life.
Soup!
September 4th, 2022 at 7:08 PM ^
Fans like 1778 are the worst kind of fans. Can't enjoy a championship without beating that's chest and shitting on all the"haters." Just shut up and enjoy that we have a great team this year.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:03 PM ^
Save your pearl-clutching. JJ outperformed Cade so far and Harbaugh is the one who set up the "rules."
September 4th, 2022 at 9:03 PM ^
I want to see another Orji in the end zone in the Hawaii game!
September 4th, 2022 at 4:33 PM ^
Unfortunately Cade will probably be clear QB1 at a different school next year. Tough draw against JJ’s skill set.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:55 PM ^
That scenario makes getting Jadyn Davis even more imperative.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:45 PM ^
Davis Warren
Others will improve-right???
The transfer portal
But yes, Jadyn.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:54 PM ^
What’s the main thing that held us back in Harbaugh’s tenure? QB play. The portal and coaching up 3 stars is fine, but that will not keep us at the level we’re at. We need 4/5 stars in our QB room especially after losing Carr and Moore.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:36 PM ^
This game and the next game really should tell us very little. Both defenses are bad and Michigan’s play calling was vanilla in the first game. I’m curious who will play better during crunch time, in a tight game, against a quality opponent. We haven’t seen JJ much in that situation.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:56 PM ^
I love what Cade McNamara did against Nebraska, Penn St, and almost all game against Ohio St. And he actually did some good things here and there against Georgia too. I would hope that if Jim Harbaugh is going to make the change, that JJ McCarthy will come through just as good, or better. Because I was thinking, that in 2021 Cade McNamara was cutting his teeth, and there will only be better this year.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:39 PM ^
How many zone reads did Cade dorf? Same old guy.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:41 PM ^
It wasn't close. cade's numbers yesterday were similar to his numbers last year, especially in the redzone. I was behind the bench. It is JJ's team. The energy he had, him running on to the field to high-five the offense between series and long ass media timeouts, and especially when Orji, Bowman, and Warren went out there and jumped on him after his second scoring drive cemented it to me that it's his team.
I think that cade knew it as well when Jim announced the qb starting situation. I think Jim also laid out the metrics as both a rationale for the decision and a chance for cade to win it back.
I really hope that cade and JJ have a bond this season that is similar to Joe Milton and Hendon Hooker down in Knoxville.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:58 PM ^
I think the team voted McNamara captain.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:57 PM ^
I know. Therefore he has a duty to his team to lead them through hell and high water regardless of his position on the depth chart.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:53 PM ^
Previously he seemed to be exemplary. Then there was the post-game yesterday-that was neither a leader nor a captain. Words and actions matter.
September 5th, 2022 at 6:58 AM ^
Surprised more here haven’t expressed this opinion.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:42 PM ^
JJ does look better on paper by this criteria, and I expect he will be the most effective QB all year. But I hope Cade pulls himself together for the sake of his team and both are prepared to play at a high level at Iowa.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:46 PM ^
I'm wondering if this wasn't orchestrated by Jim Harbaugh. He wanted to give Cade a shot at the job out of respect for what he did for the team last year, especially after him being named team captain to not split the locker room; but perhaps he's known all along JJ was going to take the job.
The offense just feels clunky and plodding when Cade is the QB but feels cohesive when JJ is the QB.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:56 PM ^
A writer for The Athletic suggested this earlier.
September 4th, 2022 at 5:20 PM ^
Yes, the offense definitely opens up more with JJ's feet and stronger arm. But c'mon, Harbaugh didn't "orchestrate" Cade biffing two easy passes and killing our first drive nor his other incompletions.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:09 PM ^
Great point here SiS and just to tag on.
I saw an article on mlive where Saban had enough of all the questions of who the starters are and basically tore up the depth charts. The starters are whomever performs at the position and gives the team the best chance of success. Not a Saban fan but it makes sense.
September 5th, 2022 at 7:33 AM ^
It was a bit eyebrow raising when Bowman came in and it felt like he made the passing offense feel smoother than when Cade was in
September 4th, 2022 at 4:49 PM ^
Weird take here...
While we'd all like to see both QB's perform at a high level, yesterday Cade may have really let Jim off the hook. He makes the switch to JJ much easier - not that Harbaugh is known to overthink difficult or controversial decisions.
Seems Harbaugh, like most that follow the program closely, know that JJ is the future sooner or later, but Cade is a leader in the locker room, was voted captain, and it's hard to bench a returning B1G champion QB who helped changed the culture of the football program.
If JJ plays really well next week, Jim isn't making a decision between two QB's that played lights out against poor competition, but will be choosing JJ (the hot hand) over Cade - based on their respective performances against poor competition - not just based on the theoretical JJ "higher ceiling"
Cade can be upset, but he was given the opportunity to win, or at least stay slightly ahead in the competition which was eventually going to be won by JJ. Jim now has the necessary "evidence" to replace Cade with JJ.
That said, Cade needs to remain a leader in the locker room, support JJ, and remain ready for action, because undoubtedly we will need him at some point this year. JJ runs a ton and could get banged up, or may simply be having a clunker of a game against solid competition where Cade can come in a and play hero.
.....and then, we can wash, rinse, repeat the controversy all over again :)
September 4th, 2022 at 9:07 PM ^
Maybe Cade had the yips in the first game and comes out on fire against Hawaii in the second half. If not…
September 5th, 2022 at 12:43 AM ^
But one of the most important factors is that it isn’t “sooner or later” for McCarthy, or any other highly rated prospect in today’s college football, especially since McCarthy has also shown his immense talent on the field. The coaches know it’s more like now or never than sooner or later because players can leave so easily. I think McCarthy is clearly superior to McNamara now, but even if McNamara was slightly better at this moment, the choice would still be McCarthy because of the implications for the future.
September 4th, 2022 at 4:52 PM ^
I’m a Michigan fan - and my wishes for every student athlete - in every sport - is that they reach their potential - stay healthy - and excel both on the field and in the classroom. So, after their “experience” at Michigan is complete - they’re in a position to contribute to their profession - their family - and community - throughout their lives.
That being said - it seems like there are two fine young men competing to be the starting QB. Both have strengths - and, regardless of the decision, one will be disappointed in a couple (or few) weeks.
For whatever reason, Cade did not execute as effectively as he could have during the possessions / drives he led. There were missed / inaccurate throws - which impacted the efficiency and scoring.
JJ will start under center next Saturday. We really won’t learn much in that game - or the following day one (against UCONN). Maryland will tell us something - and, going in the road after that - will tell the biggest tale.
Again - wishing them both - and the entire team - nothing but the best. Go Blue!
September 4th, 2022 at 4:53 PM ^
Let JJ have a full game. It's easy to write Cade off but he is proven.
That being said, I do think JJ offers a gear that Cade doesn't. In particular, JJ has the threat to run. He needs to take care of himself.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:10 PM ^
In the play before JJ ran in for a TD, he handed off. Maybe he saw something and kept the ball on the next play. To your point, JJ has that gear.