in this metaphor i guess the nebraska safety is the ball? [Patrick Barron]

Buckner vs Buckner Comment Count

Brian October 11th, 2021 at 1:27 PM

10/9/2021 – Michigan 32, Nebraska 29 – 6-0, 3-0 Big Ten

At the end of seminal 1998 poker movie Rounders, Mike McDermott walks back into the underground club where he lost his whole bankroll years before. He says he "feels like Buckner walking back into Shea." I watched Rounders again a couple months ago because having something on to pay attention to is helpful when your personal life is spiraling towards divorce.

I came to regret this, because the phrase would not leave my mind.

In my current situation, Shea is damn near everywhere. The park I walk through to get my kid from school was  the site of a couple other walks, late night ones. The little court I cut through to get there is one letter off the name of the town we stayed on an anniversary trip that felt like it would be the end of the bad times and the beginning of the good ones, until it wasn't. I've lived in the same town—the same part of the same town—for 15 years. Everything and everywhere reminds me of the state of things.

Buckner walking back into Shea, if Shea was the Big Bang. Or, no: more like that episode of The Next Generation when Beverley Crusher gets stuck in a universe that keeps getting smaller.

----------------------------------------------

Consider two football teams, now. Both are ancient and dignified and scattered apart on the sands of what used to be a championship-level program. Both are run by former quarterbacks from the glory days. Neither has broken through in the way their large, absurdly devoted fanbases want. One constantly shoots itself in the foot just on the verge of poking through. The other does the same thing but somehow one feels more like a Three Stooges movie and the other a Lars Von Trier joint. Which is which depends on which team you're a fan of.

History has decided that these two teams are going to play each other, and that it's going to be close. Inevitably whatever happens now will go in the collective psychosis of the loser. The winner? Dopamine hit, sure. But if Bill Buckner walked back into Shea and fielded a routine grounder it wouldn't change a whole lot. Damage is quick, recovery is long.

If you ignore the jersey color of the winner, then, the result here was foreordained. More mania for Nebraska fans looking at a punt that went the wrong way and a late fumble and oh God whatever it takes to lose to Illinois. More caution for Michigan fans who do not trust that anything can be good. One fanbase spirals down, the other barely increments up. The moral arc of college football is always towards derangement.

After the game Cade McNamara stood in front of a reporter and told her that "previous Michigan teams lose this game." He prefaced that with a "no disrespect" gesture. That hit in the same way any "I'm not an X, but" statement does. There must be a German word for it, the phrase that disclaims the thing you're about to do and only intensifies how hard you're doing it. That was disrespect—disrespect that was on some level deserved. Previous Michigan teams have lost this game and others like it.

This Michigan team is probably going to as well, because that's what happens in college football unless you're one of the elites living in the recruiting arcologies Alabama, Georgia, and Ohio State have built. And in this weird post-covid year, even two of those three. The Revenge Tour team that did seem like a playoff team lost a cosmically dumb and stupid and dumb game against Iowa, and then ate The Spot a couple weeks later. There's no shame in being caught up in the tides of college football.

I don't trust it and probably won't trust it until long after it is reasonable to do so. But okay. You went into Shea—in this case a road game against an approximately top 25 team per the fancystats—and fielded a grounder. A tricky one, even. A cool tile has gone down over some lava. Trust comes back one tile at a time, and maybe this time the Michigan team won't lose those games. And when they do maybe it won't feel like another in a long line of errors.

AWARDS

Known Friends and Trusted Agents Of The Week

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[Barron]

-2535ac8789d1b499[1]you're the man now, dog

#1 Brad Hawkins. The crucial strip and recovery to set up the winning points, plus an equally critical fourth down stop on Nebraska's first drive. I can't say for certain that he wasn't part of some of Nebraska's big plays but I'm pretty sure none of them were on him; he in fact had to clean up one when he came over to tackle a wheel route that (probably) Green busted on. Almost knocked that ball out for another turnover on downs.

#2 Hassan Haskins. The hurdle, of course, and several other grunting runs where he makes four or five yards after contact with his combination of power and balance. 5.9 YPC against a real defense despite frequent short yardage deployment.

#3 Jake Moody. More than just a guy who makes field goals. He's a guy who makes field goals in the same exact way, casually drawing them in from the left hash mark. Kick goes up, kick looks slightly wide, have now been trained to interpret that as a sign something good is going to happen.

Honorable mention: Uh Aidan Hutchinson was PFF's defensive player of the week again so I guess he should get an HM. Dax Hill turned in one spectacular INT and several other plays. Blake Corum had 18 touches that averaged 7 yards each. Josh Ross delivered several thumping tackles. The OL checks in here with special mention to Stueber, who was paving.

KFaTAotW Standings.

(points: #1: 8, #2: 5, #3: 3, HMs one each. Ties result in somewhat arbitrary assignments.)

23: Aidan Hutchinson (HM WMU, #2 Wash, #1 Rutgers, #1 Wisc, HM Neb)
17: The OL (#1 Wash, #1 NIU, HM Neb)
12: Hassan Haskins (HM WMU, T3 Wash, T2 NIU, #2 Neb), Blake Corum (#2 WMU, T3 Wash, T2 NIU, HM Neb)
8: Ronnie Bell (#1 WMU), Brad Hawkins (#1 Neb)
7: Dax Hill (#3 WMU, HM NIU, HM Rutgers, HM Wisc, HM Neb)
6: Nikhai Hill-Green(HM NIU, #2 Rutgers)
5: David Ojabo (#2 Wisc), Brad Robbins (HM Wash, #3 Rutgers, HM Wisc), Jake Moody (HM Wash, HM Wisc, #3 Neb)
4: AJ Henning (HM WMU, #3 NIU), Josh Ross (HM Wash, HM NIU, HM Rutgers, HM Neb)
3: Donovan Edwards(T2 NIU), Roman Wilson (#3 Wisc)
2: Cornelius Johnson(HM NIU, HM Wisc),
1: Andrew Vastardis (HM WMU),Mike Sainristil (HM WMU),  Mazi Smith (HM Wash), Gemon Green(HM NIU), Chris Hinton (HM Rutgers)

Who's Got It Better Than Us(?) Of The Week

Hawkins's late strip and recovery sets Michigan up for a chip shot to win.

Honorable mention: Sainristil lays out for a long ball. Haskins hurdles a dude. Corum zips through an insert iso for a touchdown-creating chunk.

image​MARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK.

McNamara throws a terrible interception immediately after a Nebraska TD, setting up their go-ahead score.

Honorable mention: Illegal formation TD, various missed deep shots, Nebraska quackery getting Michigan's linebackers running after ghosts.

[After THE JUMP: hello ground game]

OFFENSE

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[Barron]

Live by the deep ball, die by the deep ball. McNamara's deep shots in this game were not on point. Even the one he hit to Sainristil took him off his feet, which ended up taking four points off the board when Michigan couldn't punch it in from the five. Other opportunities were largely uncatchable. At times I was reminded of Wilton Speight against Iowa in Kinnick, when hitting any one of five or six shots would have been enough.

But he did hit the one, even if it required a circus catch, and Michigan moved the ball pretty well. I feel conflicted about McNamara's overall performance to date, performance in this game, performance against Wisconsin, etc. I am wishy-washy about all of it.

Leak. Michigan did this three times:

That's gonna be some RPS, dinking to your TE for critical third down conversions.

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[Barron]

The run game returns. Wisconsin may be that good on the ground and Michigan may be quite good when they're not disrespecting Rutgers. Michigan ran a lot of successful gap stuff, some insert iso, some split zone (which felt pretty meh) and got two big plays in which they blocked a for a bunch of yards and then their backs went and got some more. (The third big play, Corum's TD, was bash on which the OL was not relevant.)

This is a defense that shut down MSU by shooting Spartan OL back on a down-to-down basis. This performance is a major boost to the idea that Michigan's ground game is potent even against good teams. Now if you can work in some more RPO/keeper stuff based on that. However…

Short yardage is a problem. Particularly when the field gets compressed. Bill Connelly on Michigan's fatal flaw:

Michigan's goal-to-go touchdown rate is just 77%, and their red zone TD rate is 62%. Both rank 68th in the country.

This is quite a comedown from the days when the crowd was outraged when Michigan did anything but give the ball to Ben Mason on a FB dive, and that's despite having a mooseback like Haskins available.

Michigan did have an unfortunate occurrence in this game when McNamara got stepped on and his knee hit the ground an instant before he handed the ball to Haskins for a walk-in TD, but the overall picture is a little concerning. Michigan does not have a manball short yardage package and they don't have a mobile quarterback to make up for it. Even McCarthy, the nominally mobile guy, is just an average-sized dude who happens to be fast and not a short-yardage bulldozer type.

I don't know if there are good solutions available; this feels like a thing that's going to remain a problem.

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[Barron]

Baldwin can go. Baldwin took a nothing hitch and broke out 10-15 YAC, which he's done in a couple other games. Michigan didn't seem to have any WR issues even down Bell and Wilson, and I wonder if he's still acclimating to major college football and has some rapid improvement left in the tank. He certainly seems like he's got the physical package.

I'll allow it. This looks more like attempting to unscrew the top of a thermos than eating corn but if  you're fast enough to outrun a pretty good DE despite a cutback to him you get to celebrate however you want.

Corum also added to his "Mike Hart but fast" reel by spinning through two tacklers and toughing out a first down after receiving a dink pass.

McCarthy's got to be able to throw Denard stuff. McCarthy's one throw in this game was a dink to the flat that was dropped. Seems like you'd rather take shots with him since he's dropped in two beautiful bombs to Baldwin already and he's currently the stunt casting running QB who should be sucking up safeties.

Self scout the late QB runs. Michigan turned to QB runs on critical downs late a few years ago. At this point that tendency has been scouted into the ground. Witness Rutgers's QBR blitz that ate up McNamara and McCarthy getting swarmed just before the winning field goal in this game.

DEFENSE

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ope [Barron]

Alas, no-bust season, we knew thee well. Nebraska was always going to be the most serious test of Michigan's spooky ability to not let guys run willy-nilly, uncovered, despite transitioning to a new defense. Nebraska has a running quarterback and does a bunch of cool stuff. They love them a throwback because frontside action against a guy like Martinez has to be respected, and one of the best ways to detonate a young linebacker is a throwback. Check:

That's so confused that I'm not sure who's supposed to have the running back, Ross or Hill-Green. Looks like both and neither.

Later Nebraska went with an end around fake that stopped and turned into a swing pass.

image

The guy in man to man coverage on that receiver? #4, who's standing on the ten yard line, barely in the frame. That's going to be a big minus for Gray but also a big RPS win. Nebraska does cool stuff.

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[Barron]

But also Michigan got some of theirs. The fourth and two stop on the initial Nebraska drive looks like a scouting win to me. When Nebraska motions in their WR, Mike Morris puts eyes on him, expecting a crack block that comes. He dismisses it. Then the guy replacing is not a cornerback but Hawkins, because Michigan literally has no corners on the field:

So Morris strings it out, Hawkins sheds the lead block, and Michigan gets off the field.

Okay: I believe in the DTs about 64%. For one, I should apologize to Mazi Smith since I claimed that the DTs didn't do anything in pass rush. Smith was about an instant away from causing another turnover:

They didn't do a lot. They did something.

More notable to me: Michigan stuffed Nebraska on two key third downs with Jenkins/Speight/Jeter on the field. One was the third down right before the play embedded in the above bullet; the second was a  third and one where Jenkins shed the LT and stood up the RB with help from a linebacker. Personally I would not have had those guys on the field on key third downs, but I mean… okay.

The one contain blip. Michigan has two DEs who are edge rushing around the corner, and this can be a problem against a guy like Martinez. This third and eleven was about to be a punt when Hutchinson went around the edge, but there was a huge gap because Ojabo did the same thing, less effectively, and zip zap zoop:

Mike Morris also has some responsibility there as he tries to drive inside and cannot react. If Michigan can delay Martinez at all before he exits the pocket the linebackers can rally and hold this down. When you have Hutchinson going up against a true freshman you should be assuming that the QB is going to flush up in the pocket. Michigan did a good job of this the rest of the night but this was killer because Nebraska's illegal formation touchdown was right after.

This is our concern. Michigan took a couple of egregious PI/holding calls in this game that were bad echoes of last year:

Turner had another one on Oliver Martin, who is Nebraska's #4 receiver and a guy who had to transfer twice to get on the field, that was just as bad.

Nebraska is the first functional passing game to roll into town, and they've got a couple of athletic guys. I am concerned that guys like Jahan Dotson, anyone on Ohio State, and that one guy who did the thing for MSU last year and then evaporated are going to be a problem because Michigan's CB play isn't meaningfully improved against non-meatballs.

SPECIAL TEAMS

Henning shorts out. Rough, rough day for him as he 1) lost three yards on a return, 2) let a punt bounce at the ten and was fortunate that Nebraska let it slip into the endzone, and 3) muffed a second punt. Caden Kolesar briefly getting the job now makes more sense even if he was letting a bunch of them drop.

Robbins right turn. Brad Robbins had another punt hit close to the endzone and then take a 90 degree turn. I fear this man.

MISCELLANEOUS

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[Barron]

When taunting is encouraged. The above got flagged as a dead ball foul after a turnover on downs, which meant exactly nothing. In these situations the flags that come out are more like little festive party favors.

Oblig referee complaining. This is not a legal formation:

image

There's been a lot of discussion about whether the bust was induced by the fact that you can't do that and coverage rules aren't written to deal with four eligibles to one side of the formation. It seems like the answer could well be yes since you get these trips formations with a covered TE a ton and defenses must be used to ignoring that guy as an eligible WR. But also that guy is way off the LOS, so I don't know.

One thing I do not buy is the Q-Anon level conspiracy theorizing that Nebraska lined up in an obviously illegal formation and hoped they'd get away with it so they could score a touchdown. We joke about ref incompetency but how many times do you actually see something like this missed? Five percent tops?

Also in what are we doing here. Hassan Haskins got called down three yards short of where he actually landed on one third and short—overturned on review—, Nebraska was offsides on their interception, and uh yeah that PI Michigan got at the end of the first half was absurd.

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[Barron]

In gamesmanship conspiracy theories I believe. Nebraska substituted late on their final TD drive and got Michigan to sub as well. The officials are supposed to hold for the defense to get ready, but because Nebraska was subbing late that would have resulted in a delay of game call. So they got out of the way and Michigan busted on a third and four Martinez keeper.

Going for two. Michigan went up 19-7 with about 3 minutes left in the third quarter and did not get it. This is one of those controversial things I don't have much of an opinion about. The upside there is that if Nebraska scores two touchdowns you're tied instead of behind. The downside is that if Nebraska scores two touchdowns and gets their own two point conversion, you're down a full 3 points and a field goal only ties it. That latter is what transpired. To me this is close to a wash.

Throwing a fade on the attempt, though… woof.

Computers love us. That Connelly article referenced above has a percent chance all the teams in it make the playoff, as calculated by Connelly's finest computers. Michigan's number is 40%, which struck me as ludicrously optimistic. After considering things it does seem optimistic but there's a window here even if Michigan loses to OSU because:

  • Big Ten teams beat Iowa State, Washington, Miami, and Auburn in nonconference play and seized spots atop the polls despite those teams being not as good as expected.
  • Bama's loss makes a two-bid SEC depend on someone beating Georgia in the title game.
  • The playoff committee might tell Cincinnati to pound sand.

So a scenario like B10 champ, Georgia, Oklahoma, 11-1 Michigan w/ loss to OSU and wins over MSU/PSU is feasible. 40% still seems extremely high.

I've decided I don't want to know. No combination of words would make this better.

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[Barron]

Some would make it much worse. Also here is this guy:

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[Barron]

HERE

The Kicker Loves Smelling Salts:

Have you ever tried smelling salts?  The only way I can describe them is what it must feel like to inhale vaporized moonshine.  They smack you with a strange combo of simultaneous confusion and clarity.  If you have the type of screw loose that is required to play fullback or professional hockey, smelling salts can bring you a clarity of purpose and act as your personal rocket fuel.  On this team, the offensive line loves them dating back to 9-on-7 drills that formed their identify in the off-season.  But because this is an all caps TEAM, the kicker from Northville loves smelling salts too. 

Best and Worst:

Similarly, for all the complaints by Nebraska fans that they were hosed by calls in this game, Michigan was the victim of their fair share of questionable calls.  As noted elsewhere, Nebraska got away with a TON of “college crappe”, from illegal formations to rampant holding to the obnoxious clapping on defense that induced 3 false starts.  The fumble by Martinez looked not unlike Erick All fighting for yards on his 3rd-down conversion the drive before, and the refs allowed him to fight for yardage with the understanding that you have to, you know, hold onto the ball.  That joint recovery was the classic “tie goes to the runner”, and I’d argue Martinez’s first non-fumble-incomplete pass falls into a similar vein.  And honestly, the refs were a mess all day – the constant reviews, the weird flags, them completely missing Haskins getting a first down and Harbaugh having to call a TO to force them to review, and even the sliding foot on a UM run that netted them a first down despite it being clear McCarthy was out of bounds a yard earlier.  So a poorly-called game that was disjointed is naturally going to feel “off” for both teams, and so assuming conspiracy where incompetence applies is usually the wrong play.

Seth's cyan remains a SOURCE OF CONTROVERSY:

Folks…

As I'm sure you all know by now, a terrible sin has been committed.  An atrocious wrong, the likes of which have not been seen since. . . uh, breakfast?  Anyway, I apologize for the disturbing content, but this demands answers:

Gasp!  It's unforgivable.  Inconceivable!  (That word may not mean what I think it means.)  I'm sure Cade's looking at that right now, gripping a loaded revolver, holding a bottle of pills, pressing a cloth-wrapped tantō against his abdomen with both hands (cross-legged and dressed in road whites, of course).

Comments

Colt Burgess

October 11th, 2021 at 1:58 PM ^

As someone who is divorced and lives in a small town, I really felt that. I also live in the same house - she moved out - so I see and hear memories everywhere. It does get better, but the best thing is not to dwell on the past, like what you coulda, shoulda, woulda, done differently. I wasted a lot of time looking backward. Be glad you have friends and family who care about you, and don't isolate yourself...

ypsituckyboy

October 11th, 2021 at 1:58 PM ^

I'm confused by the "Cade is a gamer and has moxie" talk after this W. We won because guys other than him made plays - Corum broke a nice one, Haskins hurdled, Dax made an amazing INT, and Hawkins caused a huge turnover. "Moxie" is a fancy way of saying that there aren't any objective/statistical things you can point at to show McNamara made a W more likely, but we won, so we'll give him credit too.

bronxblue

October 11th, 2021 at 2:13 PM ^

Fine, here are some numbers:

  1. Cade threw for more yards against Nebraska than anyone other than NW, who had 1 more yard in a 49 point loss.
  2. Once Nebraska opened the scoring in the 2nd half and made the game 6 points McNamara was 9/15 for 133 yards and was 3/5 on 3rd-downs.  
  3. He did throw his first pick but also helmed 4 other scoring drives in that half, including a 91-yarder, a 75-yarder, and 69 yarder.  

The idea that everyone else doing their jobs (which is what we're basically describing here - running backs running for yards and safeties breaking up passes or forcing a TO after the guy had picked up a first down) are the ones "making plays" but the guy who did his job is just a bum is annoying.

CompleteLunacy

October 11th, 2021 at 3:03 PM ^

Completely agree. Cade wasn't spectacular, but he made enough plays, just as the rest of the offense did, to win the game. 

Also consider this wasn't a Washington-like "run only" performance - quite the contrary, Michigan was extremely well-balanced in its attack, and effective enough through the air. Nobody's going to confuse Michigan's pass game as its offensive strength, but Michigan needed to demonstrate that it can lean on pass plays in key moments (i.e. when the defense lines up to take away the run), and the past two games demonstrate this to be true. It may not be enough against, say, PSU and OSU, but it has been effective enough so far. 

1VaBlue1

October 11th, 2021 at 2:15 PM ^

He completed at least 5 passes for first downs in 3rd & 5+ yds to go situations.  He kept his calm despite all of the missed bombs.  He never flinched from the moment when Nebraska took the lead with all that momentum and a huge, loud crowd behind them.  He calmly lead the team on a 90 yard TD drive after getting behind in a game for the first time all year.  On the road.

Nobody claimed that Cade won the game on his own.  But he deserves more than 'was just along for the ride', too...

bronxblue

October 11th, 2021 at 2:43 PM ^

Yeah, the erasure of everything McNamara did well is beyond tiring at this point.  Blake Corum runs for a TD is great but they're only in that position because McNamara went 3/4 on that drive including a 3rd-down ball to Erick All, who himself made a great play to get the FD.  The idea the QB isn't involved in the performance drives me a little crazy.

CompleteLunacy

October 11th, 2021 at 3:08 PM ^

Driving me bonkers too.

There's also very little discussion on (1) Cade's pocket awareness and ability to avoid drive-killing sacks and (2) his ability to avoid game-changing turnovers. He was sacked once. The interception was bad, but it was the first of his career and its impossible for a QB to be perfect with 0 interceptions the whole year. And all he did after the pick was maintain is composure and help his team go down the field for must-score drives in the 4th quarter.

 

bo_lives

October 11th, 2021 at 2:36 PM ^

“Game manager” is another one. Is that supposed to mean Cade knows the plays and McCarthy doesn’t? Are we back to the ol’ O’Korn vs. Peters logic? Because I’d say being faster and having a better arm is superior to knowing more plays that end up being fake reads or incompletions.

What everyone is missing here is the fact that Cade and JJ are essentially in the same class. Both are freshman due to 2020 not existing. If JJ is going to be a star here, Cade is going to get benched at some point. What determines that? (And don’t say some dumb self-evident answer like “the coaches”)

bo_lives

October 11th, 2021 at 2:47 PM ^

McCarthy is plenty fast enough to be an actual threat on the ground. I seriously can’t believe we’re in 2020 and people are still arguing *against* using a mobile QB out of a fear of the unknown. Sometimes when the known thing is clearly not all that great, and the unknown thing has a handful of very positive data points, it makes sense to increase the number of data points you collect. Fans are once again insisting the backup can’t be better when we know full well Peters was better than O’Korn. And I recall a debate last year surrounding Milton vs. Cade, uh yeah how did that one turn out?

As for “not knowing where to throw it”, what evidence do you have that applies to JJ? Milton was also highly inaccurate and had absolutely no deep ball, whereas JJ has shown evidence he has a well honed toolkit. 

bronxblue

October 11th, 2021 at 3:15 PM ^

I'm not arguing against JJ as a mobile QB; I'm arguing that his ability to read and execute the passing offense is not known and there's a very really chance it's noticeably worse than Cade.  And he's not Denard with his speed; he needs to be a credible passing threat in order to catch defenses with the run, not the other way around.

JJ's deep throws are two good throws against deep backups of WMU and Wisconsin in blowouts.  Against WMU, the only other time he threw the ball, he missed a ton of WRs and locked onto Henning.  He's obviously a talented player and I fully expect him to contend for the starting spot next year, but what evidence do you have that McCarthy is there right now?  The "few positive data points" are just that; data points, and few that point to him being better than "not all that great".

Again, this is a subjective discussion but I'm comfortable saying that McNamara is a better all-around QB running this offense right now, and the idea that McCarthy would make them better today feels largely detached from evidence and deep in the realm of 5* hype.

stephenrjking

October 11th, 2021 at 3:35 PM ^

Have to agree with basically every argument you're making here.

JJ has physical tools, obviously. It is far from obvious that he would run the offense better than Cade.

Personally, I have a hard time separating my opinion of the QB issue from my opinion of Michigan's QB coaching under Harbaugh, which is... not a positive opinion. In my mind we're getting Harbaugh-average production out of Cade, with bonus points for a relatively low level of errors. Close your eyes and tell me which plusses and minuses Cade doesn't share with 2016 Wilton Speight or the better editions of Shea Patterson? Not many. 

JJ is a complete unknown, and my pessimism about the QB coaching leads me to believe that he will not be equipped to run the full offense, with its various checks and reads (limited though they may be) if he steps in. Long term I want him to get as much time preparing as possible, as the more he has the offense mastered, the less a potentially awkward coaching style will affect him. Short term I don't think he can move the team any better than Cade can.

So I agree with you. I also must confess that my pessimism, both regarding our preseason expectations and the QB coaching, affect my opinion. 

UMForLife

October 11th, 2021 at 8:25 PM ^

I sometimes feel like our college QBs are expected to perform like a NFL QB and Harbaugh hasn't found that QB yet. One small sample size, but that fade on 2 PT conversion on Saturday. It is not a knock on Harbaugh. I absolutely love that guy. I really hope Cade develops into a guy who can be an above average passer, because that is going to be expected of him with what they call. Even the worst NFL QBs can make those throws but in college it is too much to expect. But, I have high hopes for Cade. He has improved every week. Deep balls did not work this week but he made enough intermediate throws this week compared to prior weeks. I am hoping for a better version of Speight after the bye week, working towards Rudock level by the end of the season. If that happens, all bets are off.

GBBlue

October 11th, 2021 at 4:00 PM ^

You've constructed a veritable army of strawmen there.

"I seriously can’t believe we’re in 2020 and people are still arguing *against* using a mobile QB out of a fear of the unknown." Says literally no one on this blog.

Cade "is clearly not all that great." The janky word choice makes this hard to interpret, but if you're implying people are saying Cade is great, no one is saying that, either. What people *are* saying is his overall body of work has been pretty good so far, and he's still young. If by, "not all that great" you mean "bad," yea, people *are* saying that's wrong. I, for one, don't think Cade is bad and I sense you at least don't want to come right out and say, which is probably the reason for the awkward word choice.

For JJ, there are a "handful of very positive data points." And a handful of negative plays, which might have resulted in  turnovers -- as one expects from even a very talented freshman. Besides that, (and I don't want to repeat the mistake of denigrating one of our very good players to advocate for another) JJ is a true freshman, and true freshman historically struggle when first given the keys -- not always, but more often than not.

"Fans are once again insisting the backup can’t be better when we know full well Peters was better than O’Korn." Nope. Once again, no one is remotely saying that.

Here's what most people *are* saying. Cade has done nothing to *lose* the job, but JJ may very well have the ability to *win* the job. Has JJ shown himself to be a better quarterback right now? We have insufficient data. Maybe the coaches know, or maybe they still have insufficient data, too. Let's just judge each of them fairly, without feeling the need to drag one or the other down.

P.S. Michigan is 6-0, coming off back-to-back difficult road wins.

lunchboxthegoat

October 11th, 2021 at 3:01 PM ^

I'm pretty far from a Cade defender but that's a horrific miscategorization of Cade.

 

Based on my viewings he appears to be a guy vastly different than a true freshman and is way more valuable than 'knowing the plays.' His understanding of the offense, where to go with the ball, how to get out of trouble preserves possessions. For a team that wants to run the ball and play sound defense - that's extremely valuable. Freshman just aren't that way. They don't have enough time or reps to start having things 'slow down' so they can make the correct play. They rely on instinct and athleticism to make decisions at warp speed.

JJs TD against Western is the perfect example (and I'll grant you it was his first ever game): lots of really bad fucking ideas all wrapped into one play. Thankfully it worked out. We're not designed to sustain a quarterback making really bad fucking decisions at warp speed. 

gbdub

October 11th, 2021 at 3:40 PM ^

both are freshmen due to 2020 not existing

This has to be one of the dumber things I've read on this site. Yes, that's their eligibility. But 2020 absolutely did exist and Cade McNamara got starting QB experience in conference play. Sure, it was an abbreviated year but it's vastly more experience than JJ has.

So the answer to "when does JJ get to start" is "when he's the best QB on the team". Which, 6 games into his career, when there is a more experienced and seemingly low-downside QB ahead of him on the roster, he is understandably not. 

blue in dc

October 11th, 2021 at 3:47 PM ^

Cade

- Red-shirt - 2019

- Played 2020 - free year with Covid

- Played 2021

- going forward - 3 years to play 3 years

J.J.

- has played 4 games, certainly not redshirting

- has 4 more years to play 3 years

Not the same year

- Will be very interesting to see what happens next year.   Will be a big challenge to keep both players because unless JJ has a redshirt year due to injury, it seems likely their eligibility would expire after 2024 season

- could certainly see a scenario where J.J. wins starting job in 2022 and goes pro after 2023, but does Cade want to sit around and wait for that chance?

- if Harbaugh can keep both happy enough to stay next year, it will be impressive.

AlbanyBlue

October 11th, 2021 at 4:13 PM ^

In addition to knowing the plays, there is making the reads in the pass game. JJ may not be there yet. Also, it seems like he needs touch on short and intermediate passes.

Of course, there's also the idea that Harbaugh definitely likes and wants the position to make as few mistakes as possible, and Cade gives him that. It's classic Harbaugh mistake-averse football -- JJ provides what is perhaps a higher ceiling but also maybe a lower floor, and I think JH focuses on the possible floor.

Wolverine In Exile

October 11th, 2021 at 4:12 PM ^

I'll take the QB who can successfully execute the check down throw to the TE or RB coming open while facing a blitzing LB about to drive shoulder into gut on a key third down any day of the week. Cade's fine. He won't be the reason we win a national championship, but he ain't going to be the reason we lose to Rutgers/Indiana/Maryland/Northwestern/Nebraska. We won a national championship with Brian Griese, and multiple Big Ten championships with Elvis Grbac.

stephenrjking

October 11th, 2021 at 1:59 PM ^

In some ways leaving Ann Arbor behind has been a blessing. Many of the places where I spent time being a dumb kid are not around to jog the memory.

But I've found that those issues aren't there when I return. The fountain in front of Burton Tower, where I hung with bad people and said stuff I regret... is also the place where I spent my first date with my wife of 18-and-counting years. The Eberwhite playground dotted with places where I remember suffering the cruelty of others is now a place where I've taken my kids for memorable afternoons with their grandmother. Even places where there are no subsequent memories, there is freedom: the dark memories inside and outside of Pioneer High School no longer imprison my thoughts or emotions.

One of the reasons I am so passionate about my calling is that I have been made a new creature in many vital ways. It does not exempt from pain, but it does renew joy where once sadness was the rule. I can only pray that you one day find the same freedom from the very real burdens of memory, Brian. 

Stay.Classy.An…

October 11th, 2021 at 2:21 PM ^

I'm super sure you are trolling here and I gotta be honest, this post comes off as a real dick head thing to say for no reason. There was no outwardly expression of religion or some veiled reference of "needing to see the light". I usually appreciate your opinions on the blog, this one is a HUGE miss, for many reasons.

stephenrjking

October 11th, 2021 at 2:39 PM ^

Eh, I don't know if Chuck is being sarcastic or not (I haven't known him to be scornful in this way in the past) but someone who reads religious implications into what I am saying is not inaccurate. I was not specific, but neither was I secretive. I'm not trying to bombard Brian here; my statement is, indeed, my experience. 

Stay.Classy.An…

October 11th, 2021 at 3:24 PM ^

All good Stephen, you are a genuinely good person and I know you meant no ill-intent. You a religious person by nature and occupation, so I know where you are coming from when you post. I just thought Chuck was trolling and felt led to call him out for it. I apologized to him down below for the misunderstanding once he replied that he was also being genuine.

blue in dc

October 11th, 2021 at 3:57 PM ^

The difference is that one could read what you wrote and see truth regardless of your specific religious affiliation (or lack there of).   Your words did not exclude one who might not be of the same faith.  It certainly helped me see why you are likely very good at your calling,   Reaching people where they are and not where you want them to be is a gift.   Glad you found a way to see your way through troubles, find that gift within yourself and use it to help others.

blue in dc

October 11th, 2021 at 4:23 PM ^

If your goal was to celebrate your faith with others who already share it with little or no thought to whether it would have a positive (or negative) impact on others, your posts were spot on.  
 

If you wanted to help others, who may or may not share the same religious beliefs, both with specific struggles they might be having and with considering on a larger level issues like the role of god in forgiveness, it was a swing and a big miss.   You might want to re-read what Stephen wrote and what you wrote and think about which path might be more effective with a wider audience.

Billmunson

October 11th, 2021 at 2:52 PM ^

Ur comment reminded me of being 11 yrs old. My 6th grade teacher was a homely nun who looked like the witch from the wizard of oz. One day out of nowhere one of the girls in an attempt to curry favor raised her hand and exclaimed to Sister Paul Theresa that she disagrees with all her friends that think she looks like the Wicked Witch.

Ur attempt to give comfort to Brian by bringing up ur 18 yr marriage while he is struggling was similar to my ditzy classmate.

OG Killa Bobby…

October 11th, 2021 at 3:15 PM ^

I grew up in NY (my love for UM is a long story).   I thought I'd never leave NY... My company sold, I knew i would be out of a job, a job I thought I loved.   A few months later I got a job offer that moved me to San Clemente in Orange County CA and I can't even put into words what it did for me.


The feeling of a fresh start, not having to deal with people or places that were tied to trauma in my life (and again I thought I was happy and never considered moving).  No preconcieved notions of who I was/am or was going to be. 

A fresh start seems hard and it's often brough on bye tough circumstanes but it's been the best thing that ever happened to me.


Good luck!