Simpson will always be shadowed by Winston [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

Basketbullets: Sometimes You Eat The Burke, Sometimes The Burke Eats You Comment Count

Brian January 6th, 2020 at 1:32 PM

1/5/2020 – Michigan State 87, Michigan 69 – 10-4, 1-2  Big Ten

The main reason the above scoreline happened was an event that happened four years ago. Two croots diverged in a yellow wood. Michigan either got tired of waiting for Cassius Winston or figured out that he was going to Michigan State and grabbed Zavier Simpson out from under Wisconsin's nose.

This was a good move. Simpson is a beloved bulldog weirdo with a skyhook and a game that evolves like his hair. He was the starting point guard on teams that went to the Sweet 16 and played in the title game, teams that finished 6th and 7th in Kenpom. He is supremely gifable.

YawningAdventurousAfricanmolesnake-size_restricted

We are all richer for having the Zavier Simpson experience.

But it must be said that he is not Cassius Winston. This is only a problem when Michigan plays Cassius Winston, but for the fourth straight time it's been the problem. Last year MSU screened and rescreened Winston until Michigan's defense developed cracks while MSU switched Tillman onto Simpson on ball screens; Michigan could not shoot over this or punish the post mismatch.

Winston went NBA Jam in this game, scoring 32 points on 24 shot equivalents with 9 assists against two turnovers. There was a sequence of awful stepback threes and off the dribble floaters that all went down, and the worst thing is that you expected them to go down. Michigan threw all its various pick and roll coverages at Winston and it didn't matter.

Simpson doggedly scored a couple of offensive rebounds and a steal, had 8 assists and two turnovers himself, and scored 14 points on 20 shot equivalents. You can add an asterisk and convert one of those shot equivalents to a Kobe assist if you want. It still doesn't get Simpson anywhere near Winston. And Michigan can't make that up without Isaiah Livers and/or three-point shooting better than putrid. Thus that.

Honestly though, this felt a lot less bad than last year, when MSU's switching led to long sequences of play where Michigan could not find a shot of any description. Here they found shots decently and did not make them. Michigan had one drought midway through the first half where MSU pushed out to a nine point lead, and that's the point the game oscillated around until John Teske fouled out with four minutes left and Michigan went to a zone with Brandon Johns at C and a bunch of quick desperation chucks on offense.

And that's with Winston having an out of body experience while Michigan shoots 22% from three. This was a game that invited Michigan to go away over and over, and only Teske fouling out really opened the floodgates. It's time to dial post-Trident expectations back about 80% of the way. That still leaves Michigan in an excellent spot to make the tourney with ease.

[After THE JUMP: Hoth time]

Hoth_d074d307

Pictured: Michigan road three point shooting

A trend or a blip? Michigan fell from 14th to 30th in three point shooting after this game, and now has the following lines in their three road games:

  • @ Louisville: 3/19
  • @ Illinois: 3/18
  • @ Michigan State: 5/23

That is a Hoth-worthy 18%. I don't know what to do with this. Even if Michigan is somehow more susceptible to bad road shooting than other teams the effect can't possibly be that strong. I mean… right? Like the other games, Michigan shots seemed more or less fine. MSU was able to close out reasonably well, but until David DeJulius put up a couple chucks late there weren't any shots that seemed bad.

MSU did push six attempts to Zavier Simpson. When the rest of the team is 4/17 that does not suffice as an explanation. Livers's absence does explain part of it.

The team as constituted. Michigan cannot survive shooting performances like the above. They have two starting guards who are barely six-foot and are still an entirely Beilein-recruited team that's heavy on the shooting and extremely light on athleticism—even for a Beilein team. The one guy who's clearly a plus athlete is Johns.

There are teams that can power through ugly outside shooting performances, and maybe Juwan Howard will start fielding them in the near future. This team cannot.

Get back, get back, get back. The most frustrating thing about that game was Michigan getting burned on transition off makes. This was a major issue against Michigan State a few years ago that Michigan did figure out, but Beilein and Yaklich departing has apparently erased this bit of the institutional memory. In this game Michigan either got a straight-up transition bucket on its face or found itself locked into ugly cross-matches that MSU exploited way too often.

This was doubly and triply frustrating because 1) Michigan had three weeks to prep for MSU and 2) the same thing happened to them in the Iowa game. This has got to be a point of emphasis going forward.

Michigan could use some more gamesmanship here: ball goes through basket, grab it, throw it at ref. That buys you a little bit of time, especially if your throw to the ref isn't in the shooting pocket, as it were. They could also try to use the guy who scores as a defender on the inbounds to delay it a second or two; it doesn't take much to get back and get set.

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bad not good bad bad [Campredon]

Livers was not replaceable. Not that we thought he was, but two of the above three bullet points were impacted by Livers's absence. Obviously missing your 50% three point shooter is an issue. Johns had a decent game, all things considered, but after he missed an early three he started turning down open shots. Michigan turned those into much worse shots.

On the defensive end, part of the get-back problem was Michigan playing a LOT OF WEIRD GUYS, including a number of lineups I don't think we've seen all season. A fair number of these had two posts, which made it harder for M to get back since not only are those guys slower they're also inclined to be near the bucket. It also made cross-match issues worse since those guys are much less versatile defenders than Livers.

Johns did decently. He put up 12 points, had a tough and-one, defended decently, and had a couple of quality takes to the bucket. Like everyone else except Wagner he scuffled to a meh ORTG, largely because he was 1/4 from three and had 3 TOs. You can see the potential there.

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this one did not go in [Campredon]

Big Country. Austin Davis got 15 minutes and had a few buckets, including a nice drop-step finish for a layup. His limitations are still there—I think all but one of his misses were packed back in his face and Michigan remains extremely reluctant to toss him the ball as a roller—but he's way ahead of where he was last year. One point for Juwan Howard big development; even if Davis doesn't do much more than chip in a few minutes here and there before a grad transfer his emergence is a positive sign for down the road.

Hopefully Castleton can make similar progress next year; he was rough in this game. It seemed like the environment to got him, too, as he turned down an open three early.

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please do not pumpkin up [Campredon]

Brooks evaporation issues. Eli Brooks had a decent game against Illinois, getting 12 points on 12 shot equivalents. In Michigan's other three losses he has a total of 6 points despite averaging 31 MPG. Other teams have successfully limited his three-point attempts. Here he got four off and missed them all.

I wonder if he is more susceptible to home/road stuff than the average player. Last year he kept getting playing time and people kept saying he was playing well in practice only to wilt under the lights. A hot start this year looks like turning the corner, but if you look at his numbers it jumps out that his ORTG goes from 104 overall to 85 against Kenpom's A+B tiers*.

I'm worried that Brooks is going to turn back into a pumpkin. Michigan has two games that aren't A or B the rest of the year. (Yes, those are against Nebraska.) Speaking of…

*[this roughly means top 100 opponents once you adjust for home/road effects]

Must be mentioned. This Breslin rogering was not as horrendous as many others but did result in Juwan Howard's first career technical. Howard on that:

"I'm going to back up my team for all 40 minutes of the ball game," Howard said. "That possession, I had seen enough. I saw a lot of contact. I saw contact being made when we were driving to the lane to finish and unfortunately got hit on the arm.

"And then I saw contact when one of our bigs went up and tried to finish and he got bumped. And to me it was like an obvious foul. But unfortunately it wasn't called, so I got a little beside myself. I'm an emotional guy, and I'm going to always fight for my players."

I cannot believe—except I can—that Teske got hit with a phantom foul just a couple minutes into the game. It was a loose ball foul on which Teske did not contest the rebound and MSU's guy easily gathered it in. At no point in any basketball game should a loose ball foul that does not actually impact who rebounds the ball get called, let alone a nonsense call just minutes into the game. This led to a game of foul trouble for Teske, 15 minutes for Davis, and that late collapse.

Related. Chris Holtmann bitched about how Kaleb Wesson was fouled repeatedly by Wisconsin in OSU's home loss to the Badgers. This inexplicably was the subject of a BTN segment attempting to back Holtmann up, which is doubly inexplicable because this was the best they had:

Torvik was so incensed by this he has an entire thread on it. I can't recall any other school getting a segment on a conference-owned network trying to sell out the conference's own officials with no justification.

Hope you like knife fights. This was supposed to be a down year for the Big Ten. It's not. There are two horrible teams, and then there's this:

image

barttorvik dot com

That is 12 top 50 teams and 10(!!!) top 25 teams, per Torvik, including Rutgers. Kenpom isn't much different, and ranks the Big Ten as the nation's best conference by a whopping 2.5 points of efficiency margin. If you're not playing Northwestern or Nebraska you're going up against a team with legitimate tourney hopes.

The natural result of this:

 

Gird thyselves. Michigan's a good basketball team but I think we've discovered over the past month that it's probably not good enough to overcome the above without taking various slings and arrows, especially with Livers out for an undefined period of time. Michigan needs to make its three layups against the NUs, and at that point going .500 against the rest of the schedule gets you to 11-9 in conference and gets you something like a 6 seed.

The goal is to not be the Big Ten team(s) that clearly deserve to be in the tourney based on Wins Above Bubble and other objective measures but get left out so Syracuse can be a 12 seed.

Quit saying a thing. Every time talk turns to recruiting and Michigan's scholarship situation someone broaches the idea that Jace Howard could walk on, and then someone else jumps in with an assertion that Howard can't do that because he took an official visit. I have no idea where this came from but it appears to be bunk. Here's a kid who walked on to the football team just last year:

"I am on an official visit to Michigan, and I have taken Coach Harbaugh's preferred walkon offer to come here for college," Castleberry stated.

I have googled for this and can find zero evidence that taking an official means you can't walk on. This must be a confusion based on "blueshirting," which is a way around football's limit of 25 scholarships per year. A blueshirt can get a scholarship when he arrives on campus but in order to do so he has to qualify as "unrecruited," which means an official is off the table.

So: Michigan has two open slots, two seniors, and has the option of not giving Austin Davis a fifth year. Howard can walk-on. So Michigan can take Zeb Jackson, Terrance Williams, Hunter Dickinson, Isaiah Todd, a walk-on version of Howard, and one other without any other attrition. Attrition is likely, whether that's Todd going overseas, Livers heading to the NBA, or someone on the current roster surveying the situation and transferring. I'd regard Howard like Jake Moody in football: he's coming, he's not promised a scholarship, but it's pretty likely that one opens up for him.

Continue saying other things. The "one other" could be a pretty big deal:

You can probably deduct which program has gained momentum from the fact that the above tweet is embedded on this website.

FWIW, Christopher has recently had Kevin Durant and Ja Morant sit in on his games. Also Quavo. I guess there's not that much to do in LA for millionaires?

Comments

True Blue 9

January 6th, 2020 at 1:46 PM ^

It cannot be stressed how important the home game against Purdue is on Thursday. Lose that and you're starring down a 1-4 start in the Big Ten. Not great....

I have faith in Coach Howard but buckle your seatbelts. Big Ten slate is gonna be tough. 

I'mTheStig

January 7th, 2020 at 12:54 AM ^

Depends on the school.  Some public universities do this.  Interestingly enough, pedophile state is an example of one which gives employee discounts on tuition.

Also, by way of comparison, Michigan is an edge case because:

1.  The athletic department is fiscally separate from the university

2.  The athletic department reimburses the university for scholarships.  Less than 10 public schools do that nationally.

xtramelanin

January 6th, 2020 at 2:30 PM ^

nice thought ben, but given JH's tax bracket, the cost of tuition to him is more like lunch money to you and i.  happy for him, just saying the cost isn't going to be a deciding factor, probably more the idea of getting a 'scholarship' to play hoops vs. being a PWO, and also whether he wants to play for his dad. 

schreibee

January 8th, 2020 at 12:33 PM ^

As far as the "idea" of receiving a scholarship vs PWO, Mrs. Howard tweeted out that Jace's other finalists are Penn and Princeton, I believe.

My understanding is ALL Ivy League student-athletes are walk-ons, "preferred" or otherwise. That can't be the deal breaker here. PT may be, however...

TheCube

January 6th, 2020 at 2:06 PM ^

As a Sixers fan, I just want off the non-shooting PG train. 
 

At least X tries to take over even if he’s poor at it. Ben Simmons tho... ughhhhh

 

 

bronxblue

January 6th, 2020 at 2:36 PM ^

That BTN segment about OSU was astounding to watch; I agree with Torvik that Wesson was just winded/tired and didn't try as hard in the post on a lot of those plays.  And that sort of makes sense - yes he lost a ton of weight but he's still a guy who struggled to stay on the court last year and is seeing a lot of time now.  My guess is he's being worn out, especially against a Wisconsin team that is physical, and it showed in this game.

I have a sense that Winston is just going to be a pain in the ass the rest of the year and then he's gone from MSU and they'll revert to having just a good PG and not a top-3 guy.  And maybe he won't shoot as well in A2.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

January 6th, 2020 at 2:59 PM ^

Let it be known that I am 100% in favor of having a coach that bitches about refereeing until he gets T'ed up.  I think a coach that doesn't get a technical every now and again is missing an opportunity.  It shouldn't be every game or every week and doesn't even have to be every month.  But college basketball refereeing is nothing if not grossly inconsistent at times, and over the course of a season you're going to have at least one game where a coach absolutely has a point about getting hosed and needs to make that point loudly, repeatedly, and perhaps obnoxiously.

Most such games seem to happen in Cameron or Breslin, ironically enough.

Naked Bootlegger

January 6th, 2020 at 3:11 PM ^

Also credit Howard for the timing of that technical.    The game was slipping out of control.    Even though a made FT and Sparty possession temporarily grew the lead, our team responded after the T.   We showed some moxie and cut the lead to single digits twice afterwards.    If there was a time and place for a technical foul to vent growing referee-related frustrations, that was it.

Also, the technical erased a transition Winston 3.   That alone was worth it.

bronxblue

January 6th, 2020 at 3:39 PM ^

John Beilein got two techs and was ejected last year against PSU after some ATROCIOUS officiating and yet little changed.  

What the NCAA needs to do is just move toward full-time officials who are held accountable.  Grade them, have transparent reviews, etc.  It's a billion-dollar sport that relies on a ton of cut corners, and it's weird.  

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

January 6th, 2020 at 4:21 PM ^

I don't mean for the purpose of changing the overall state of affairs.  Just give the refs in that particular game something to think about.  And hopefully develop a reputation long term of a coach that's paying attention.

Refs are human and subject to human psychology, and I fully believe that when they're being made aware they're screwing up, they subconsciously take pains not to do it again.....which means more favorable calls down the stretch.  I still have vivid memories of a game in which the refs put UVA into foul trouble early because of some obvious UNC flopping.....until they checked the monitor (for a flagrant), saw the flop instead, and literally did not call a single foul on UVA for the rest of the game (until stop-the-clock time.)  I think it's the coach's job to help steer the ref's brains in the right direction.  I don't mean by whining even before anything happens, just that they need to help the stripes make corrections sometimes.

MGoBender

January 6th, 2020 at 10:28 PM ^

What the NCAA needs to do is just move toward full-time officials who are held accountable.  Grade them, have transparent reviews, etc.  It's a billion-dollar sport that relies on a ton of cut corners, and it's weird.  

The do this, they just don't release to the public. They grade every call and no-call made by every official. It effects who gets tournament games, who continues to get B10 (or insert conference here) games or who quietly, after a year or two, suddenly finds themselves working more MAC or GLIAC games than B10 games.

Source: I know a B10 hoops ref.

blue90

January 6th, 2020 at 3:22 PM ^

Two things strike me here. The first is I wish we won that battle and got Cassius, he's clearly better than Z. Z is a better defender but Cassius just plays lights out all the time, even with one of the countries best defenders on him. The second is, we have no one who can take over and put the team on their back the way Trey used to do over and over again. I see this team as a second round team.

MGoGoGo

January 6th, 2020 at 4:03 PM ^

"But it must be said that he is not Cassius Winston. This is only a problem when Michigan plays Cassius Winston, but for the fourth straight time it's been the problem."

Kinda seemed like it was also a problem when Michigan played Oregon.

swoosh

January 6th, 2020 at 4:14 PM ^

I love X's game, I love X's leadership, and I would love for him to coach my son someday.  For the love of god if the kid had a jump shot he would be NBA bound.

 

 

TrueBlue2003

January 6th, 2020 at 4:27 PM ^

My additional bullets:

1. I'm a little surprised Michigan relegated Brooks to being a corner gunner in this game.  MSU switched Henry onto Simpson in the second half after Simpson had a pretty good first half, went largely no help, and stuck Winston on Brooks in an attempt to hide him and Michigan accommodated. Surprised they didn't let Brooks go to work on Winston (although that puts Z in the corner where help would come easy so maybe that's why they didn't but thought they should have poked around there).

2. It's pretty amazing that Davis was +2 in 15 minutes.  That's almost half the game that he played and which Michigan won.  They lost the other 25 minutes by 21 points.  Yes, there are lots of other factors but he's not as bad on defense as people think. His lack of athleticism stands out but he's in the right places for the most part. And he's particularly useful against teams with bigs that aren't much in terms of outside threats (like both Bingham and Tillman).

Contrast to Johns who still doesn't seem to know what to do and where to be on defense, particularly with knowing when to help and when not to help.  He gave up a back breaking OREB in the second half when he came over to try to block a (Henry?) jumper on which Brooks did a perfectly fine job of staying in front of him and forced the shot. Johns had zero chance of impacting it and inexplicably came way late and put himself completely out of the play and of course his man got the easy put back. 

Johns oozes with talent and potential and it's unfortunate these help/no help decisions which should be instinctual by now are not clicking.

jsquigg

January 6th, 2020 at 5:32 PM ^

I'm not 100% sure it was Johns, but on multiple occasions help was given to a covered defender on an attempt to block a shot, leaving a boxed out man for an easy offensive rebound. Inexcusable.  I am also not a fan of two big lineups, or any lineup that includes Castleton at this point. 

shoes

January 6th, 2020 at 4:41 PM ^

Winston has been an absolutely marvelous college player but is it just an illusion that he launches his shot (or begins to do so) from a very low position, or is that a reason why the NBA isn't thrilled about him? It looks like he would be very susceptible to getting his shot blocked, but he doesn't. Does anyone else see this?

TrueBlue2003

January 6th, 2020 at 5:02 PM ^

Yes, and...

1) he's a horrific defender and NBA teams don't accept that coming out of college anymore.

2) not just his shot position but his lack of height and athleticism in general makes the translation of his offensive game a lot more questionable against NBA defenders.  When a guy relies on "craftiness" in college, there are quesitons about it translating.  Winston is a master of getting into defenders, using his body to create contact and contorting himself to get around it.  That's much more difficult to pull off in the NBA.  The NBA wants physically dominant college players that at worst have to become crafty in the NBA but if they're starting there, it's a red flag.  This is hesitance is very much because of what the NBA has seen with guys like Trey Burke, etc.

jsquigg

January 6th, 2020 at 5:30 PM ^

I hope I'm wrong, but I think this is a bubble team. Castleton is borderline unplayable, Brooks disappears against stiffer competition, I don't see a consistent shooter on the roster, they're missing the guy who is their best shooter who also opens up the floor for their pick and roll game, and they've regressed at both ends of the floor.  With the conference as tough as it is, I think this team struggles to get to .500.

cornman

January 6th, 2020 at 10:56 PM ^

I agree. My early season optimism has dissipated significantly. In a conference as tough as the Big Ten, there will undoubtedly be some talented teams left out of the tourney due to a losing record in conference. I see no reason we can't be one of them. A tourney birth is far from a sure thing for us.

outsidethebox

January 7th, 2020 at 9:30 AM ^

Optimism is generally a very good thing-until it slides into uninformed, delusional territory. Here, the only time a "tourney birth" should have been considered a sure thing was after that 7-0 start. Pre-season, OMG, what were any of you thinking???

Several weeks ago I got heavily negged for stating that Livers held the keys to this team's success and I will continue to hold that belief...perhaps at least some of you can now see why I made that statement. Without Livers this is not a top 25 team-a bubble team at best. This roster is razor thin on talent that is ready to play on the big stage. Conference play in the B1G is a war of attrition-there are no prisoners taken and every weakness is exploited. Livers' talent has/had the ability to cover many faults/skill deficiencies of his teammates. Unless and until he returns the struggles of this team will be significant. 

Juwan and his staff have their work cut out for them-as if they did not before. They are doing an incredible job here.

HarboSchembaugh

January 6th, 2020 at 6:35 PM ^

HEY WARDE! Are you going to stop being a gigantic p***y and call out the Big Ten for their obvious OSU dick sucking?  This is going to continue until you do some shit about it. It happens in football, it happens in basketball, you need to get your fat ass out of your big golden chair and do something. Publicly. Now

Leaders_and_Best

January 6th, 2020 at 7:50 PM ^

To provide some info on the Jace Howard walk-on question: a student can always walk-on (not receiving athletically related financial aid) and play for a school no matter their "recruited" status (official visit, contacted off-campus, received NLI/GIA), the issue is when they must be considered a "counter" for Financial Aid purposes. To try to be brief, Men's basketball is a "head counter" sport, in which you have only a certain amount of athletes you can have on scholarship during the academic year (13 for Men's Bball) AND any student-athlete on aid must receive a full scholarship (no partial scholarships that are used in "equivalency" sports). For Football and Men's Bball the recruited status comes into play once you want to give a walk-on a scholarship with respect as to when he will count against your overall scholarship limit (Bylaw 15.5.1.1) which occurs when they compete in a real game which is what "blueshirting" takes advantage of.

In summary; a walk-on (not on scholarship) can play no matter their recruited status, but if they are given a scholarship, they will count against your limits once they compete.

 

Leaders_and_Best

January 6th, 2020 at 7:50 PM ^

To provide some info on the Jace Howard walk-on question: a student can always walk-on (not receiving athletically related financial aid) and play for a school no matter their "recruited" status (official visit, contacted off-campus, received NLI/GIA), the issue is when they must be considered a "counter" for Financial Aid purposes. To try to be brief, Men's basketball is a "head counter" sport, in which you have only a certain amount of athletes you can have on scholarship during the academic year (13 for Men's Bball) AND any student-athlete on aid must receive a full scholarship (no partial scholarships that are used in "equivalency" sports). For Football and Men's Bball the recruited status comes into play once you want to give a walk-on a scholarship with respect as to when he will count against your overall scholarship limit (Bylaw 15.5.1.1) which occurs when they compete in a real game which is what "blueshirting" takes advantage of.

In summary; a walk-on (not on scholarship) can play no matter their recruited status, but if they are given a scholarship, they will count against your limits once they compete.

 

jbrandimore

January 6th, 2020 at 9:55 PM ^

Obviously the Big Ten Network received the directive from Intergalactic High Commander and Emperor Gene Smith that they needed to produce a segment on how officials screwed Online State.

The only problem was Emperor Smith forget to make it clear he wanted the segment to be about football.

cornman

January 6th, 2020 at 10:52 PM ^

I appreciate the optimism, but there's no way Livers goes to the NBA this year with his injury. He was already a borderline prospect before the injury; he will need a superhuman recovery to play his way into the NBA now. 

matty blue

January 7th, 2020 at 6:10 AM ^

I can’t say that I expected to win this game… At Breslin and down Isaiah Livers we would’ve had to play a perfect game to win it. That we were in it at all speaks volumes to where the program is right now.

This guy can just coach.

Probably the best example of that is the functionality of Austin Davis. He’s been written off as a lost cause on any number of occasions, yet there he was playing quality minutes in a huge B1G road game.  

Juwan is a post whisperer - can’t wait for him to find a raw baby Shaq somewhere and turn him into a Death Star.

 

pescadero

January 7th, 2020 at 9:25 AM ^

" extremely light on athleticism—even for a Beilein team. The one guy who's clearly a plus athlete is Johns. "

 

Yeah... Michigan is talented, but painfully unathletic.

Mongo

January 7th, 2020 at 4:12 PM ^

Is Wagner home sick or something ?  He looks lost compared to his German pro-team film.

Somehow, the offense needs to get Wagner the open 3-looks and hot.  Johns was not comfortable shooting the 3-ball and passed up a number of wide open looks.  Wagner just seemed out of the game flow.