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well, that could be true but

the zags only scored 22 points in the paint, so it seems like FSU forced them to shoot from the perimeter. 

 

http://mgoblog.com/content/fl

http://mgoblog.com/content/florida-state-33-michigan-32

Another FSU - Michigan rematch

in more than 1 sport. Michigan the favorite in both recent matchups.  Michigan is no doubt FSU's toughest opponent in the last few weeks. FSU will be a dog again... for the 4th straight game in the tourney.

FSU is a very untypical team in that they have 10 guys who can produce, so as long as 5-6 of the 10 do, they can succeed with balance.  For example, only 1 player had double figures vs. Gonzaga last night, and yet they scored 75 points.  The reason they've been succeeding lately is that they've started playing defense (again)--last night Gonzaga had their worst point per possession performance since 11/2010. And FSU's big. Last night they had 9 blocked shots; and scored 38 (of their 75) points in the paint.

Simply put: FSU is peaking right now (at the right time).

Michigan is the better team

more talented roster, better coaches, etc. Mac knows his QB has to throw the ball downfield to win, so your DBs will be tested.  I still think Michigan will win.  I'll be paying special attention to your DL vs. the UF OL, which is pretty good.

Florida releases depth chart

https://www.seccountry.com/florida/florida-announces-unofficial-depth-c…

Your move....

^^^ TFW you hear the OL preview

LOL

LOL

I was asking about Michigan.

Where do you see your D finishing in the rankings (eg, S&P) This year projects to have atypically strong Ds, eg, Clemson, tOSU, Bama, FSU, NCST, Miami, etc.
hey friends form the north

long time, no comment.... since the lead-up to the Orange Bowl.  F'ing incredible game--one of the best of 2016.

Couple things:

1. Pretty sure you sign the monster OL from IMG.

2. What are you expecting from the opener vs. UF?  I have some thoughts about the game:

here's a current (updated July 2017) depth chart: http://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/depth-chart/florida/90498

 
Offense:
  • WR: this will be the best WR unit the Gators have fielded in years (potentially a problem for your inexperienced DBs)
  • TEs: the 2 TEs on the depth chart are a Senior and RS Jr
  • OL: return 3 of 5 starters, 1 of the non-starters started a few games in 2016
  • QB: after the spring (former 4*) Felipe Franks beat out Del Rio; but Zaire will compete with Franks for the starting job
Defense:
  • DL: one of the best starting 4 in the SEC (e.g., Cole Cublic of the SEC Network rated UF's DL #1 in the SEC).  Excellent pass rushers--might cause problems for your OL.
  • DBs: they just lost a starter to a non-contact injury (ACL?). So this is a potential weak spot.
ST: both the punter and FG kicker are excellent (returning starters).
 
Sounds like we'll have a competitive game.....
 
BTW, Gators want revenge for Michigan beating them last time! ;-)

 

 

FSU offered DTR today

https://twitter.com/DoriansTweets/status/839236318668308481

Edit1: just learned that DTR is a Michigan legacy.  Welp....

Edit2: heard that DTR was the only QB on any of the 30+ teams at the LV Adidas 7-ons who was calling his own plays (the entire game).  IMO that shows an advanced football IQ.... that kid is going to be really good at the next level.

Thanks for the thorough reply

It's a shame that so many programs pay players (or provide other material benefits instead) b/c it ruins the product, creates competitive disadvantages, etc.

Programs with more $$$ already have a competitive disadvantage but this obviously doesn't violate NCAA regs.  Still $$$ allows programs to hire more staff, and just use that $$$ in creative ways, e.g., 30+ satellite camps, etc.  Some things the NCAA can't prohibit, but some things they might.

That said, beyond (prohibited and creative) uses of $$$, there are other ways that programs can cut corners that also create competitive disadvantages, e.g., 

  1. oversign (over the 85 limit)
  2. force kids to transfer or take medical DQs
  3. hire the coaches of recruiting targets
  4. allow high schools to use the facilities

While Michigan might not engage in handing over cash to recruits/players to gain a competitive disadvantage, Harbaugh definitely engages in creative uses of $$$ in the deep Michigan coffers.  And some uses are so creative that the NCAA is reviewing them.  And he has also engaged in roster management techniques such as 2-4 (above).  So for these reasons I do think it's fair to say that Harbaugh is different from previous HCs like Bo, Carr, et. al. 

Note: many elite programs also engage in creative uses of $$$ (e.g., hiring analysts, etc.) and 1-4, so I'm not singling out Harbaugh.  Just pointing out that he's different from previous Michigan HCs in terms of spending $$$ to gain a competitive disadvantage as well as things like 2-4 (above); and as such some people believe that Harbaugh is changing (to some degree) the brand and image of Michigan football.  And most welcome that change.  But again, it's a change.

 

Do Michigan fans believe that Michigan ever

pays players or gives them impermissible benefits of some sort?

 

Feinbaum is an entertainer (and troll)

That said, the hiring issue that he's taking about (and was discussed on the podcast) is a tough one.  On the one hand, HS coaches must have a way to get promoted, i.e., hired at a FBS program.  On the other hand, if a HS coach C is hired at an FBS program F after/during a player(s) P at C's school, and P ends up signing with F, in most cases it's undeniable that .  There are actual known cases of programs offering a HS coach C a job just to get a player of C's.  

So because of this I think the NCAA needs a nuanced solution (not, e.g., doing just like Brian said: this is capitalism... so anything goes!).  And I think that something like the NCAA's proposed rule is actually a good good one: you can't sign a recruit at a high school up to 2 years after you hire his coach as an analyst.  If you actually hire the high school coach to be one of your 9 coaches, then the rule doesn't apply.  The reasoning is: if you hire a coach to be one of your 9 coaches, it's clear that the coach is more important than the recruit.  If you're just hiring the coach as one of the unlimited analysts that programs can afford, then (1) it's not obvious that the coach is more valuable to the program than the player; and (2) wealthier programs who could afford to hire more analysts would benefit more than less wealthy programs, which would exacerbate the already unfair advantages that some (wealthier) programs have.  The fewer the unfair advantages in college football, the better the parity and so the better the product.

maybe the charitable interpretation of Mandel's point or

anyone who claims that Michigan, now under Harbaugh, is starting to resemble other big-boy college football programs who engage in creative roster management is not to look at (1) signing big classes in a given year, nor (2) having a roster of scholarship players > 85 (or whatever the B1G permits as a conference, e.g., 87).  Instead one might be critical of Harbaugh's roster management techniques by pointing out that (A) he's pulled scholarships on players right before NSD; and (B) there have been a few guys (Heitzman, Pipkins) who have said that they were forced to leave after they were Seniors.  Again, these sorts of things happen at every program, and so aren't unique to Michigan.  But I'm not aware of A & B happening at Michigan before Harbaugh took over.

Few questions for the

Few questions for the crowd:

1. Do you expect another top 5 recruiting class in 2018?

2. Do you think the ban on satellite camps (and Sound Body-Sound Mind) will effect your recruiting going forward?

3. Final score of the 2017 Michigan v Ohio State game?

C is the 2nd most important position on the O

if Ruiz is starting, at a minimum the 1st half of the season will be ugly.  That said, I'd bet he doesn't start.

Agree with others, this breakdown is great

My 2 cents:

QB - there should be a QB competition in the spring.  If Peters is even close to Speight, the rule is that Peters gets the start.

OL - with the loss of 3 RS SRs, expect regression.  Only point I'd make about new starters is: if Ruiz starts, your O is in big trouble.  Yes he's the #1 C, but in comparison to other #1 Cs in the recent past, he's not one of the best.

WR - loss of 2 SRs, expect regression in methodical passing game, with a potential increase in explosive passing (esp. with a new QB).  The more young guys on the field, the more boom/bust is the O.  Note: this (explosive passing game) isn't a bad thing at all.

TE - I don't expect a whole lot of dropoff from Butt to Bunting (plus increased PT for Wheatley & Asiasi)

RB - By the end of 2016, wasn't Evans as good as Smith?  Also, (Evans is proof) RB is a position where young guys (true FR) can contribute.

DL - loss of 4 SRs (Glasgow, Wormley, Taco, Godin), expect some regression.  Still the DL will be top 15.

LB - loss of 3 LBs (including JP here), expect regression.  LB is a position, however, where young guys can contribute early.

DBs - loss of 4 SRs, expect regression.  I have no idea who will start, how much PT back-ups got this season.  Anyone care to elaborate?

Yep "Jim Harbaugh is an elite coach. The man has a track record. He is going to be here for a long time. His teams will be very good and often great, and sometimes they will meet other very good or great football teams, whereupon they will play a close, exciting game that will turn on one or two plays that are made or are not made. I hope they win these games."
so

@UM76, why do you call me a troll?

I think Jimmy did

mix up the playcalling & personnell to find something that worked, e.g., rotating in 3-4 different RBs, etc.

The problem was that Speight is not an elite QB (missed some guys who were open) and your OL was porous, creating lots of havoc under which your O had to operate.

IMO Harbaugh is clearly an elite HC and should be given time to win once he has most/all of his own players, esp. QB.

Wow, really?

"I'm not sure the better team won."

You didn't score an O TD until almost 5 minutes left in the game, won the TO battle 2-0 (1 pick 6, 1 gave you the ball on the 1), then you got 2 points on a blocked extra punt.  You had 4.3 yards per pass and 2.5 yards per rush.  And you were the better team?

It is

if you use, e.g., average S&P team ranking.  The bowl performances are consistent with the S&P data.  Too bad the ACC doesn't have as much $$$ as the B1G & SEC.... yet.  It's a hell of a recuriting pitch that the ACC has now that the B1G and SEC have had in the recent past, i.e., "we have our own TV network and we're the best conference in FBS".  

Your OL is definitely the weakest unit on your team.

FSU set a new record for TFLs (15) Friday night, in the Jimbo era; plus 4 sacks (Michigan sacked Francois twice.)  Our DL is very good and very under-rated (as shown in Brian's preview).  People were evaluating FSU's D on the basis of the eitire season, but there were radical changes to the D scheme (basically, simplifying things) after the first 2 losses (Louisville, UNC) and since then the D has been excellent.  

As noted in the game summary, FSU did connect on some big chunk/explosive plays.  And FSU has been doing this all season (see FSU's top 10 explosive O S&P) with Cook and its WRs.  Francois is a Freshman QB, but he lead all Freshmen QBs in the country in passing yards.  He's got a big arm and has faced some very good Ds.  And the opposing DC game plan for every team has been to take away Cook (duh) and force Francois to win the game with his arm.  So Francois is used to throwing the ball and he's got a big arm and athletic WRs that he has developed a lot of chemistry with and has a lot of trust in.

I thought for the most part (esp. 2nd & 3rd quarters) your D played as expected--like a top 5 D.  Honestly, I thought FSU basically gave the game away losing the turnover battle 2-0, one of which was a pick 6, the other gave you the ball on our 1.  Plus the blocked extra point.  If those mistakes were cleaned up, I don't think this game would have been close--your O didn't score an O TD until about 5 minutes left in the game.  But FSU is young and young players make mistakes.

BTW, love that Ohio State got dominated (& embarressed)!  Where's the love for Urban now? ;-)

Bingo After Marshall was ejected 3 of the 5 DBs FSU had on the field were Freshmen.
Good luck guys

Looking forward to a great game and no serious injuries.

Clemson's D isn't good?

LOLOK.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaadef

 

Same with your

10 starting seniors of D, 8 starting seniors on O and Jabrill Peppers :)

Question for the crowd

Who has the better starting 4 DL: Michigan or Clemson?

Just to be clear, here's the starting 4:

Clemson -

DE Wilkins, Christian SO
DT Watkins, Carlos RS SR
DT Lawrence, Dexter FR
DE Ferrell, Clelin RS FR

Michigan - 

DE Wormley, Chris RS SR
NT Godin, Matthew RS SR
DT Glasgow, Ryan RS SR
BUCK Charlton, Taco SR

Last, Clemson has very good LBs and a great DC (who won the Broyles award this year).  Obviously, your secondary is better than Clemsons'.

The reason I ask is obvious.  FSU's O had a good day vs. Clemson, e.g., FSU outgained Clemson's O on a YPP basis, was up by 8 points in the 4th, etc.... then the best player in CFB (at least according to Nick Saban), Deshaun Watson happened :(

FSU has about 10 players from Miami (eg, Cook) And most players from FL. FSU has played in the OB stadium 6 times (including one this year already) and is 6-0 there. They're very comfortable there. Fun fact: the stadium is (currently) called Hard Rock stadium. In FL the Seminole Indian tribe owns the Hard Rock casinos. There's a reason people call this stadium "Doak South". ;-)
If FSU loses it'll be because of ST And 2nd & 3rd string safeties, eg, Fr safeties will have a hard time coming up in space and tackling grown men, succeszfully blitzing or registering TFLs, etc. I don't think FSUs OL will completely fold as some expect.
I was just referring to the Performance of FSU's OL in those final 2 games. 2 sacks in 2 games, no OL penalties. Michigan is the best D FSU has faced but FSU's O is the best you've faced all season. With the OL playing it's best all season, expect a dog fight.
To call an INT luck you have To call an INT luck you have to have data on whether it was tipped. RS FR McFadden held the #1 WR (Clemson's Williams) to 7 receptions for 70 yards. And here's what's happened on targets 10+ yds downfield: 11 rec allowed 7 interceptions
& LOL at Brian's dig re Rutgers having OL who could start for FSU. Rutgers O is #127 (of 128). FSUs O is #6. The last 2 games (’Cuse, UF) with Rod, Minshew, Eberle, Bell & Leonard have been the best games of the season for the OL. Expect these 5 to start tomorrow night. They're big & athletic. Can't wait to watch this game.
INTs aren't luck, fumble recoveries are

we have 14 INTs, 8 fumbles.  I don't know how many fumbles we've had that we also recovered (which is luck).

Most of this is spot on

Two big caveats, however, are:

1. Looking at the entire season's worth of stats is misleading because FSU (particularly the OL and the D) were awful in the first half of the season.  Both the OL and D have played much better in the 2nd half of the season, and its best in November.  Re the OL, it's worth looking at the adjusted OL stats: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

2. You have to take all those unadjusted stats (e.g., hurries, sack rate, etc.) with a grain of salt b/c FSU had one of the toughest schedules in the country.  For example, Michigan has had the #56 SOS, FSU #3: http://www.espn.com/college-football/playoffPicture

And while FSU has had worse injury luck this season than Michigan (e.g., losing it's best D player for the season in week 2), the back-up DBs are 4 & 5 star guys.  So they're inexperienced but althletic freaks.

2 final notes:

- Does anyone know why Phil Steele has this game as a pickem?

- Can't wait to see such a great matchup (IMO #2 behind only Clemson & Ohio St) between two blue-bloods with great histories and traditions.  Wish we saw more ACC B1G matchups like this.

 

 

Do y'all realize that Phil Steele

has Orange Bowl as a pickem?

Walker's an All-American

If not for his height, he'd be a top 5 DE in the mocks.

Agree with this ^^^

It's notable that Stork played C, won the national championiship in 2013.  Then started for the Pats in 2014 as a rookie and won the superbowl.  He's really good.

Agree that Glasgow and Hurst are going to

be tough to stop.  Glasgow matches up with Eberle who's a little undersized, but Glasgow isn't much bigger than Eberle, e.g., Eberle has had to match up with guys like Dexter Lawrence (340 lbs) this season.  Eberle is very heady, which is why he's the starter (note that FSU signed the #1 Center in 2016, Baveon Johnson, but Eberle is still the better option overall b/c he really understands the game.)   

I honestly don't know who will start at RT against Hurst, but RT is another weak spot on the OL.  If Ruble starts at RT, Hurst will get his.  

UF's defense has been plagued by injuries

esp in the back 7.  Their DL is still good.  Their D is nowhere as good as yours.

FSU's OL was bad (&/because it's young)

in 2015 and for a lot of 2016, esp. in pass pro (see poor Sack rate, etc.).  That said, after multiple lineup changes this year, they have finally settled in on a starting lineup that has experience.  For example, the FSU OL didn't allow a sack vs. UF (who has a good front 7) and didn't commit any OL penalties (false start, holding, etc).  

Don't get me wrong, Michigan's front 7 is the best BY FAR that FSU will face this year.  But the OL is playing it's best ball in the last 2 seasons.  (Note: FSU's OL is still very young.  Although all starters have starting experience in the last 2 seasons, they will return 4 or 5 starters next year.)  

In general, FSU is young.  Michigan has 10 Seniors starting on its D.  FSU doesn't have 10 Seniors on its team.

In the Cook v Brown career

Cook has averaged 4.84 ypc.

Michigan's D is lights out--the best in the country.  That said, FSU's O is the best O (in terms of S&P) that Michigan has played.  So it makes sense to expect that FSU's O will has as much or more success against Michigan's D as any O opponent.

Solid piece Completely agree that UM should attack the LBs in coverage. Don't sleep on CB White. He's a Sr, he's a starter in a secondary with multiple 5* DBs and he's projected to be the 10th or so CB drafted. And I wouldn't expect to have any success on a jet sweep (even Peppers) bc of FSUs speed. Bottom line is that FSU has much more success against Pro style Os, most of our losses come from teams with mobile QBs.
With Everett Golson at QB

in his 1st year under Jimbo's O system, so Golson was clueless, read the wrong side of the field a lot (not the wrong WR, but the wrong side of the field).  And all of the OL who started in 2015 returned this season, so now they're at least 2 year starters (some more like LT Johnson).

Re FSU's depleted Secondary

yes, it's depleted--it lost both starters (one of whom, James, is the best D player on the team; the other, Andrews, is a SR) and so has been forced all season to play back-ups... a few different back-ups.  It's not good having to play young guys but even the young guys have played quite a bit this season because of the injuries.  Lane is just the latest (backup) Safety to miss PT.

My short OB preview

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2016/12/22/14060962/the-2016-orange-bowl-dispelling-myths-key-match-ups-and-november

In case you're interested.

Where was Hurst projected to go

in the 2017 draft?

These stats bear out what I said

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/12/15/13958186/orange-bow…

FSU Rush D vs Michigan Rush D: small advantage Michigan

FSU Pass D vs. Michigan Pass D: big advantage Michigan

Michigan Rush O vs. FSU Rush D: advantage FSU

Michigan Pass O vs. FSU Pass D: advantage Michigan

happy to talk details

just didn't want to hit the comment section with 10,000 words.  Since I gave Michigan the edge in 3/4 of the match-ups, it's likely that you disagree with the one matchup where I gave FSU the advantage: Michigan run O vs. FSU rush O.  Correct?

BTW, not that it matters, but I write for an FSU blog.  FSU and Michigan are the 2 teams I follow the most.

School policy (not FSU football policy)

is that felonies result in an automatic suspension.  A FTO isn't a felony.  So at this point all we know is that Bell isn't suspended.  Bell hasn't had any prior legal problems.