The longevity of who is going to be there is an upgradable aspect. I definitely will give you that. I have a lot of respect for what Mattison accomplished as both a DC and a DL coach on the field and in recruiting. He has has always gotten a lot of accolades and the only thing now is that since he left a new narrative was formed. There are only a handful of guys with his combination of talent coaching and recruiting ability. They all are in positions where they are staying. The best case scenario is finding a good up and coming coach with good energy that can grow into that level. If that can be found the longevity of a younger coach in that position will pay more dividends than having Mattison stay.
If it were just a couple coaches or a couple transfers you could make the case it isn't systemic. However everything combined seems to indicate it is. Even Don Brown is trying to get out of Dodge and into a HC position. Something is going on whether anyone wants to believe it or not.
That's just disrespectful for Mattison's skill in coaching and recruiting. There will not be an upgrade but maybe there is someone who can mitigate the loss. Mattison is the man most responsible for the defensive prowess and consistency. That is just a fact.
I don't know but Mattison was basically the best coach on staff. He is responsible for the great defensive consistency and is really underrated. Some of those lean talent years it was his schemes/blitzes that really turned a weak spot into a strength. It's a loss plain and simple, but obviously due to the context of him leaving his ability and importance will be downplayed so I don't expect my take to be a popular sentiment.
And this is the "healthier" MSU team. Lewerke didn't even practice the week leading up to the game and 4 of the top 6 WRs were out. If you noticed, there were receivers still somehow getting open but the MSU QB couldn't hit the broadside of the barn that day.
That's why it's the scheme/playcalling. If you pay close attention you will find it's actual pretty feast/famine. The reason the stats end up good and it looks amazing vs inferior competition is because the blitzes get home and the inferior competition has trouble with some of the looks. (Same thing happened under Mattison fwiw) The trouble arises when opposing offenses can stave off the pressure/ blitzers which leaves open the back end. This is also why the spread can beat it. Good (or bettter) teams can pick it apart which is why you saw the last 2 games. Sure, having the missing players would have helped today but the reality is it's probably still an L.
Basically the church has income/housing assistance programs which then magically players families get enrolled in. So the boosters get the $$ into the church fund for that and then it gets funneled to the players' families... I don't care if you think it's stupid. I am literally just saying what I have heard. I am not personally involved in that racket, so you can take it with a grain of salt.
What I heard is that there is a Megachurch which is funneling benefits to players/their families somehow... (it's been a bit since it was laid out for me) As far as what "insiders" have said... that's all I have heard.
Exactly this. The ball obviously popped out on the reply. Especially with the slow motion replay the Clemson play was a very obvious TD. Even if they didn't count the first foot down, he got his ankle down before he hit out of bounds and controlled the ball the whole time.
I would have said this before the game but it's more obvious with the halftime score... ND is not even in the same stratosphere as Bama/Clemson/Georgia/etc. ND this season is like half a level better than UM but half a level (at least) below the aforementioned teams.
Yeah Carr left the cupboard bare. People wrongly blamed RR too much for specifically that aspect. (Everything else RR was blamed for seemed warranted)
Inversely people seemed to say Hoke left the cupboards bare when he didn't, and all the continuing success was all on Jim. The reality is the staff got an upgrade in assistants quality, especially on defense and continued executing and developing on defense. Love it or hate it the offense is on Jim and he had a blank canvas there. The fact that there is so much reliance on the defense this far into Jim's tenure is not a good sign, but it can be turned around at basically any time.
I think the reality is Shea has some limitations and the offense that fit him best was run heavy. When he is asked to do too much the INTs and missed passes start piling up. As long as he is comfortable he can succeed.
It's pretty common knowledge.. spread concepts, misdirection, quicker passes. If the Blitz doesn't hit home then there are issues. There is a certain level of feast/famine. When the blitz can get through it looks godly, when it doesn't the games start looking like this.
It probably has more to do with playing the better teams at the end. There really wasn't much challenge in a down B1G until OSU and now with FLA. The Gators don't even look that good to be honest, that is far more concerning.
Bingo. It also would add more variables and cut into his current huge competitive advantage by exploiting the analyst situation. Right now he only needs 3 other teams scouted tops. expanding that to 6 or 7 cuts into preparedness and frankly, creates a far more leveled playing field. Bama has the entire system skewed toward them right now... they don't benefit in anything changing.
I think this is more reason why those saying the bowl game doesn't matter are incorrect. The bowl games do matter... changing them to meaningless exhibitions has everything to do with trying to cope with players sitting out without getting mad at them.
Ok? Seems dumb. If you are going to say something (especially something silly after a blowout loss) you should expect anyone/everyone to call it out. I think the idiocy of the first comment by Winovich is a bigger deal than the response. Really though both were dumb.. I would rather he took responsibility and not just trying to gloss over the game.
The reality is, if that is all he does he still would be fired if he doesn't keep OSU in the CFP contention and still win the B1G. He could go 4-0 in The Game but still get fired if the rest isn't up to their standards.
Exactly. You only should be making a case to drop "tough" OOC games if a win vs OSU is planned basically every year or wins vs all the other B1G opponents... Otherwise it is basically needed to ensure proper respect in good years. (No $EC bump to count on) ND is lucky they played several overrated teams outside the opener this year. (Stanford, Syracuse, etc)
It could have easily been 24-13 or 28-13 at halftime if OSU doesn't muff the kickoff. What's the point of doing this sort of thing? OSU was gashing with the runs because the defense had already quit. If they wanted to get to 69 they would have. At least 32 of UM's points were not in garbage time, but it's not like OSU has a good defense this year... They gave up 51 to Maryland and couldn't really stop them much. Scoring 30+ is what you should expect with normal output considering what Maryland did.
Because the only 2 good teams on the schedule were losses? MSU on the road when they are a injury riddled to the extent their QB didn't practice all week and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, and they could barely field 3 WRs using their RB and CB out of necessity and still only pulling away late. Whoop-de-do. PSU was a better showing but it's not like they were world beaters. OSU was the real test and it was failed miserably. No other B1G team failed that miserably against them on defense and they even showed mercy by not scoring at the end to make it 30... Couldn't even show enough pride to stop their runners from gashing at the end of the game... Beating nobodies and also rans is not a big accomplishment.
It would probably feel a bit better if it was under different circumstances. Being blown out by those you tied with shouldn't feel great. It's just a division title. I could see being happy with a streak, but individually and not making it to the championship game is basically the same as finishing 2nd or worse.
It would probably feel a bit better if it was under different circumstances. Being blown out by those you tied with shouldn't feel great. It's just a division title. I could see being happy with a streak, but individually and not making it to the championship game is basically the same as finishing 2nd or worse.
Pressure, better gauge of perceived ability of team at the time of playing, and less dependence on factors outside of the match-up context... For example injuries, momentum, and development/emergence of players can have an effect on the final season ranking but not be related to your game at all. Both the end rankings and the midseason rankings are subjective anyway....
..... Really? You are counting books in the same category as apparel only athletes get? Any student can sell their books back to the University... not every student gets free apparel to then sell. Also then it becomes a potential way for boosters to funnel money to players.
Probably hinges on how good Patterson is. MSU returns a lot and are always uber-motivated for the game. Both have a big game the week before. Initial edge should go to MSU and then potentially change based on season results.
Whistleblower regarding Butler? Pretty obvious the advocates were just tryiing to exert as much pressure as they could via any means they could since they failed to dissaude parents from sending their kids to him. Frankly I find it destable they were trying to hijack another situation to use as leverage in their vendetta. It sucks there wasn't a real trial or punishment for him, but the advocates attempting to pressure colleges after failing to convince parents is just a low move imho.
Whistleblower regarding Butler? Pretty obvious the advocates were just tryiing to exert as much pressure as they could via any means they could since they failed to dissaude parents from sending their kids to him. Frankly I find it destable they were trying to hijack another situation to use as leverage in their vendetta. It sucks there wasn't a real trial or punishment for him, but the advocates attempting to pressure colleges after failing to convince parents is just a low move imho.
MSU plays down to bad competition and basically punches good competition in the mouth. A lot of 4* and 5* players do not respond well to that due to basically being coddled compared to the overachieving 3*.... Coach Dantonio gets his team to completely embrace the underdog role.
MSU kicked off Montez Sweat and Craig Evans despite them being on a fast-track to the NFL in the system... Several other players were basically shown the door due to their actions as well. Thiyo Lukusa preferred Ganga than complying with the rules. Corely, Vance, and King were kicked off without having their day in court because of violating the team's standards. (despite them being 3 of them being contributers and basically future stars on the team) Dantonio has gone seemingly light on a couple players but Bullough was not one of them. That was an incident outside the realm of the team, school, etc. and Bullough's family wanted him punished in football context. (It's still not public what exactly happened afaik)
You could make a case Dantonio was light on Rucker or Glenn WInston or players like that. (Rucker had off the field punishment and such but was allowed to play right away) Winston was given a second chance where some would not have given it. Normally Dantonio tries to give everyone a second chance but if you don't take advantage and shape up you get shipped off.
Dantonio has never had the athletes Meyer has always had... Dantonio only gets 1 elite athlete every couple of years... OSU/Bama/Clemson have been getting classes full of them every year... The difference is that everyone outside of Bama is unable to develop players consistently and they are all prone to overconfidence or being underprepared. Saban and Dantonio bring a bit of the NFL into their program in regards to how they develop players and they have certain expectations which are higher than most places. Basically this, Saban gets 5* recruits to come in and fight and claw to get better like they are all 3*s... They are hungry...Dantonio gets the actualy 2* and 3* with chips on their shoulder and then develops them excellently so they outperform the standard 4* and 5* B1G team...
However the similarity to Saban is why Bama is Kryptonite barring an offensive change at MSU... Saban does what Dantonio does, with a much higher floor and ceiling for basically every player on his roster... Every other "Elite" school can catch lightning in a bottle and ride that to a National Championship, But BAMA and MSU are consistently good (at the levels they are at) because their development of recruits and their mindset/attitudes.
Frankly, just because you are using more mental gymnastics to try to give credit to Brown does not mean that it wasn't actually the weather. I mean, if you actually watched the game you would see MSU literally was just running the ball up the middle. It does not take a defensive genius to stop that... It was MSU's own play-calling takking advantage of having the lead.
Frankly, just because you are using more mental gymnastics to try to give credit to Brown does not mean that it wasn't actually the weather. I mean, if you actually watched the game you would see MSU literally was just running the ball up the middle. It does not take a defensive genius to stop that... It was MSU's own play-calling takking advantage of having the lead.
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The longevity of who is going to be there is an upgradable aspect. I definitely will give you that. I have a lot of respect for what Mattison accomplished as both a DC and a DL coach on the field and in recruiting. He has has always gotten a lot of accolades and the only thing now is that since he left a new narrative was formed. There are only a handful of guys with his combination of talent coaching and recruiting ability. They all are in positions where they are staying. The best case scenario is finding a good up and coming coach with good energy that can grow into that level. If that can be found the longevity of a younger coach in that position will pay more dividends than having Mattison stay.
If it were just a couple coaches or a couple transfers you could make the case it isn't systemic. However everything combined seems to indicate it is. Even Don Brown is trying to get out of Dodge and into a HC position. Something is going on whether anyone wants to believe it or not.
He has a lot more ties to Ohio than to Michigan. That probably has a lot to do with it.
That's just disrespectful for Mattison's skill in coaching and recruiting. There will not be an upgrade but maybe there is someone who can mitigate the loss. Mattison is the man most responsible for the defensive prowess and consistency. That is just a fact.
I don't know but Mattison was basically the best coach on staff. He is responsible for the great defensive consistency and is really underrated. Some of those lean talent years it was his schemes/blitzes that really turned a weak spot into a strength. It's a loss plain and simple, but obviously due to the context of him leaving his ability and importance will be downplayed so I don't expect my take to be a popular sentiment.
It would not have made that much difference. It's not like Florida was a juggernaut either. 32nd ranked scoring offense.
Diversity hires not working out... not shocking. Just need to hire the best men for the job.
And this is the "healthier" MSU team. Lewerke didn't even practice the week leading up to the game and 4 of the top 6 WRs were out. If you noticed, there were receivers still somehow getting open but the MSU QB couldn't hit the broadside of the barn that day.
Who are those teams? The conference was very weak this year. It is what it is.
That's why it's the scheme/playcalling. If you pay close attention you will find it's actual pretty feast/famine. The reason the stats end up good and it looks amazing vs inferior competition is because the blitzes get home and the inferior competition has trouble with some of the looks. (Same thing happened under Mattison fwiw) The trouble arises when opposing offenses can stave off the pressure/ blitzers which leaves open the back end. This is also why the spread can beat it. Good (or bettter) teams can pick it apart which is why you saw the last 2 games. Sure, having the missing players would have helped today but the reality is it's probably still an L.
They should be testing every player in the playoff. Why wouldn't they? It's dumb.
Basically the church has income/housing assistance programs which then magically players families get enrolled in. So the boosters get the $$ into the church fund for that and then it gets funneled to the players' families... I don't care if you think it's stupid. I am literally just saying what I have heard. I am not personally involved in that racket, so you can take it with a grain of salt.
What I heard is that there is a Megachurch which is funneling benefits to players/their families somehow... (it's been a bit since it was laid out for me) As far as what "insiders" have said... that's all I have heard.
Exactly this. The ball obviously popped out on the reply. Especially with the slow motion replay the Clemson play was a very obvious TD. Even if they didn't count the first foot down, he got his ankle down before he hit out of bounds and controlled the ball the whole time.
I would have said this before the game but it's more obvious with the halftime score... ND is not even in the same stratosphere as Bama/Clemson/Georgia/etc. ND this season is like half a level better than UM but half a level (at least) below the aforementioned teams.
Yeah Carr left the cupboard bare. People wrongly blamed RR too much for specifically that aspect. (Everything else RR was blamed for seemed warranted)
Inversely people seemed to say Hoke left the cupboards bare when he didn't, and all the continuing success was all on Jim. The reality is the staff got an upgrade in assistants quality, especially on defense and continued executing and developing on defense. Love it or hate it the offense is on Jim and he had a blank canvas there. The fact that there is so much reliance on the defense this far into Jim's tenure is not a good sign, but it can be turned around at basically any time.
Also more $$ to spend on assistants, and seemingly better assistants.
I think the reality is Shea has some limitations and the offense that fit him best was run heavy. When he is asked to do too much the INTs and missed passes start piling up. As long as he is comfortable he can succeed.
I have noticed a lot of it all over CFB. Seems to be a lot more cramping this year.
He wasn't a bust but he wasn't as special as his recruiting ranking would indicate. Just depends on what you count as a bust.
Yeah you can have that reaction after the game (maybe) but during the game? You have to shake that off.
It's pretty common knowledge.. spread concepts, misdirection, quicker passes. If the Blitz doesn't hit home then there are issues. There is a certain level of feast/famine. When the blitz can get through it looks godly, when it doesn't the games start looking like this.
It probably has more to do with playing the better teams at the end. There really wasn't much challenge in a down B1G until OSU and now with FLA. The Gators don't even look that good to be honest, that is far more concerning.
You are probably right. First clue was the number of players sitting out...
Bingo. It also would add more variables and cut into his current huge competitive advantage by exploiting the analyst situation. Right now he only needs 3 other teams scouted tops. expanding that to 6 or 7 cuts into preparedness and frankly, creates a far more leveled playing field. Bama has the entire system skewed toward them right now... they don't benefit in anything changing.
Yeah I was confused why you had him there in a "worst case" scenario.
I think this is more reason why those saying the bowl game doesn't matter are incorrect. The bowl games do matter... changing them to meaningless exhibitions has everything to do with trying to cope with players sitting out without getting mad at them.
Ok? Seems dumb. If you are going to say something (especially something silly after a blowout loss) you should expect anyone/everyone to call it out. I think the idiocy of the first comment by Winovich is a bigger deal than the response. Really though both were dumb.. I would rather he took responsibility and not just trying to gloss over the game.
Their numbers are pretty close. Tom used 9ish more games to get to the mark. 1 more season to have the lead in regular season games as well.
Not sure, but it's Alabama and a defensive recruit... It's not really a surprise if they wanted him badly. Bama basically could do this to anyone.
Urban is not going to fix the Defense in 2018. Not sure why you think it would end up a W in a series.
The reality is, if that is all he does he still would be fired if he doesn't keep OSU in the CFP contention and still win the B1G. He could go 4-0 in The Game but still get fired if the rest isn't up to their standards.
Exactly. You only should be making a case to drop "tough" OOC games if a win vs OSU is planned basically every year or wins vs all the other B1G opponents... Otherwise it is basically needed to ensure proper respect in good years. (No $EC bump to count on) ND is lucky they played several overrated teams outside the opener this year. (Stanford, Syracuse, etc)
It could have easily been 24-13 or 28-13 at halftime if OSU doesn't muff the kickoff. What's the point of doing this sort of thing? OSU was gashing with the runs because the defense had already quit. If they wanted to get to 69 they would have. At least 32 of UM's points were not in garbage time, but it's not like OSU has a good defense this year... They gave up 51 to Maryland and couldn't really stop them much. Scoring 30+ is what you should expect with normal output considering what Maryland did.
Because these accolades are normally more of a popularity contest and/or because not a lot of good offenses were played outside of OSU.
Because the only 2 good teams on the schedule were losses? MSU on the road when they are a injury riddled to the extent their QB didn't practice all week and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, and they could barely field 3 WRs using their RB and CB out of necessity and still only pulling away late. Whoop-de-do. PSU was a better showing but it's not like they were world beaters. OSU was the real test and it was failed miserably. No other B1G team failed that miserably against them on defense and they even showed mercy by not scoring at the end to make it 30... Couldn't even show enough pride to stop their runners from gashing at the end of the game... Beating nobodies and also rans is not a big accomplishment.
It would probably feel a bit better if it was under different circumstances. Being blown out by those you tied with shouldn't feel great. It's just a division title. I could see being happy with a streak, but individually and not making it to the championship game is basically the same as finishing 2nd or worse.
It would probably feel a bit better if it was under different circumstances. Being blown out by those you tied with shouldn't feel great. It's just a division title. I could see being happy with a streak, but individually and not making it to the championship game is basically the same as finishing 2nd or worse.
Pressure, better gauge of perceived ability of team at the time of playing, and less dependence on factors outside of the match-up context... For example injuries, momentum, and development/emergence of players can have an effect on the final season ranking but not be related to your game at all. Both the end rankings and the midseason rankings are subjective anyway....
..... Really? You are counting books in the same category as apparel only athletes get? Any student can sell their books back to the University... not every student gets free apparel to then sell. Also then it becomes a potential way for boosters to funnel money to players.
Probably hinges on how good Patterson is. MSU returns a lot and are always uber-motivated for the game. Both have a big game the week before. Initial edge should go to MSU and then potentially change based on season results.
Whistleblower regarding Butler? Pretty obvious the advocates were just tryiing to exert as much pressure as they could via any means they could since they failed to dissaude parents from sending their kids to him. Frankly I find it destable they were trying to hijack another situation to use as leverage in their vendetta. It sucks there wasn't a real trial or punishment for him, but the advocates attempting to pressure colleges after failing to convince parents is just a low move imho.
Whistleblower regarding Butler? Pretty obvious the advocates were just tryiing to exert as much pressure as they could via any means they could since they failed to dissaude parents from sending their kids to him. Frankly I find it destable they were trying to hijack another situation to use as leverage in their vendetta. It sucks there wasn't a real trial or punishment for him, but the advocates attempting to pressure colleges after failing to convince parents is just a low move imho.
MSU plays down to bad competition and basically punches good competition in the mouth. A lot of 4* and 5* players do not respond well to that due to basically being coddled compared to the overachieving 3*.... Coach Dantonio gets his team to completely embrace the underdog role.
MSU kicked off Montez Sweat and Craig Evans despite them being on a fast-track to the NFL in the system... Several other players were basically shown the door due to their actions as well. Thiyo Lukusa preferred Ganga than complying with the rules. Corely, Vance, and King were kicked off without having their day in court because of violating the team's standards. (despite them being 3 of them being contributers and basically future stars on the team) Dantonio has gone seemingly light on a couple players but Bullough was not one of them. That was an incident outside the realm of the team, school, etc. and Bullough's family wanted him punished in football context. (It's still not public what exactly happened afaik)
You could make a case Dantonio was light on Rucker or Glenn WInston or players like that. (Rucker had off the field punishment and such but was allowed to play right away) Winston was given a second chance where some would not have given it. Normally Dantonio tries to give everyone a second chance but if you don't take advantage and shape up you get shipped off.
Dantonio has never had the athletes Meyer has always had... Dantonio only gets 1 elite athlete every couple of years... OSU/Bama/Clemson have been getting classes full of them every year... The difference is that everyone outside of Bama is unable to develop players consistently and they are all prone to overconfidence or being underprepared. Saban and Dantonio bring a bit of the NFL into their program in regards to how they develop players and they have certain expectations which are higher than most places. Basically this, Saban gets 5* recruits to come in and fight and claw to get better like they are all 3*s... They are hungry...Dantonio gets the actualy 2* and 3* with chips on their shoulder and then develops them excellently so they outperform the standard 4* and 5* B1G team...
However the similarity to Saban is why Bama is Kryptonite barring an offensive change at MSU... Saban does what Dantonio does, with a much higher floor and ceiling for basically every player on his roster... Every other "Elite" school can catch lightning in a bottle and ride that to a National Championship, But BAMA and MSU are consistently good (at the levels they are at) because their development of recruits and their mindset/attitudes.
MSU is weak in Run blocking... they also are starting 2 freshmen, and 2 RS soph...
However despite it actually being a ghlaring weakness UM did not have very good stats in hurries or TFLs... That should be a concern.
MSU is weak in Run blocking... they also are starting 2 freshmen, and 2 RS soph...
However despite it actually being a ghlaring weakness UM did not have very good stats in hurries or TFLs... That should be a concern.
Frankly, just because you are using more mental gymnastics to try to give credit to Brown does not mean that it wasn't actually the weather. I mean, if you actually watched the game you would see MSU literally was just running the ball up the middle. It does not take a defensive genius to stop that... It was MSU's own play-calling takking advantage of having the lead.
Frankly, just because you are using more mental gymnastics to try to give credit to Brown does not mean that it wasn't actually the weather. I mean, if you actually watched the game you would see MSU literally was just running the ball up the middle. It does not take a defensive genius to stop that... It was MSU's own play-calling takking advantage of having the lead.