Who will play the hybrid SAM role in 2016?
Thanks to a mention from GVSUGoBlue in another thread, I went and listened to some of the recent coaching staff interviews from the Huge Show (featuring Harbaugh, Drevno, Brown as well as Lewis and Butt). A few of the things Don Brown said stuck out to me:
Well we'll start with for down guys and we're not uniquely just a four down defense. You know well we'll get into multiple substitution groups but I'm also big believer you got to stop the run, and that's make them one-dimensional and then chase that quarterback as hard as you can
Pretty standard. We knew or suspected this from watching tape of the BC defense. He mentioned Mattison not being worried about a transition back to a four down front. He also mentioned that as 'the easy part' and then:
We had 5 linebackers walk out the door so that that part of it is a little bit more difficult and not really having true hybrid SAM type that I'm looking for. You know we've, we've had to, you know, scramble on that in the recruiting a little bit but I felt like we've got we've got a couple, you know, great candidates there and a couple guys on campus that will be looking at as well
So this leads to the title of the thread: Who will play the hybrid SAM role in 2016? I assumed that the D would be a two ILB and Peppers as a base, but this has me thinking otherwise. Maybe it's just a situational or part time role but it sounds important to Brown. Before you answer, consider this quote from the interview:
Well, you know we tell that, we told everybody in our recruiting trail 'don't come in here with the thought of, or thinking to redshirt' you know that's just satisfying you know, we feel like an all 3 levels we've got guys that can come in and do that
So a couple guys already on the roster and a couple of the recruits. Now is the time for baseless speculation and way-too-early predictions cause it's the off season and that's what we do.
First off, it seems the Rueben Jones position switch from DE to LB fits that role and Josh Uche is mentioned as a hybrid.They seem to be obvious candidates, but what about others? Can Carlo Kemp or Lawrence Marshall fill that role? How about McCray? Will the hybrid SAM be for a three down front/sub package or in addition to the four DL?
I'm curious about what the Board thinks of the potential players for that spot since I'm sure others are more aware of the skill set require to play that position.
Edit: User ifis found that the hybrid SAM is more of a fast athlete (he like, looked at BC's roster. genius) and I found this article about the current player and the hybrid position:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/09/10/matt-milano-passed-first-…
February 4th, 2016 at 9:29 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 9:51 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:15 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 9:31 PM ^
Jones, Kemp, Uche, McCray...
I think Marshall and Johnson will backup Charlton at the WDE spot.
February 4th, 2016 at 9:51 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 9:55 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:34 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
February 4th, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^
Jim Harbaugh. He'll just change uniformz. Because cleats and a highlighter to jab into an opponent's eye. Trust Jim to make the reads, Jay can take up the sideline slack.
February 4th, 2016 at 9:38 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 9:43 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 9:40 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 9:43 PM ^
It's pretty likely some of the true freshmen will occupy that role during the course of the season. Uche, Kemp, Shelton Johnson, and even Reuben Jones are all possibilities, but my money is on Kemp because he has a 30 pound head start while the others are still around 220. Could see Lawrence Marshall in the rotation.
February 4th, 2016 at 10:29 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:50 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 11:16 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 11:33 PM ^
February 5th, 2016 at 7:48 AM ^
Not sure how you can tell by looking that someone is going to end up big. I'll guess what see what happens after some time in S&C.
February 5th, 2016 at 12:40 PM ^
February 5th, 2016 at 6:52 AM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:08 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:09 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:10 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:10 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:22 PM ^
Our hybrid SAM will eat
green eggs
and ham
February 4th, 2016 at 10:30 PM ^
Boston College 2015 SAM 2-deep:
Matt Milano 6'1" 218 lbs.; 4.64 40 coming out of HS
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/news/_/id/…
Kevin Bletzer 6'2" 217 lbs.
Michigan's most likely SAM candidate:
Joshua Uche 6'3" 220 lbs; 4.59 40 coming out of HS
February 4th, 2016 at 10:30 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:38 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
February 4th, 2016 at 11:40 PM ^
Hey Magnus,
So I tried to read most of the thread and I had a couple thoughts.
1) It does seems a little big and slow IF the SAM is a 6-4, 250 type guy... That would concern me with an Ohio State type O but not a MSU type O.But if so then a McCray (6-4, 242) Shelton Johnson (6-5, 225) and Lawerence Marshall (6-4, 238) seem to fit... Until they don't.
2) I think SAM is more of a blitzing type LB... But I have nothing to really base that off of so just tell me if I am wrong.
3) I also think Uche seems to make a lot of sense if the guy just need to run and hit instead of big strong against the run, setting the edge, etc... I also think guys like Winovich and Jared Wangler (6-2, 230) would make a ton of sense!!! I'd really like to see more speed out there.
Also something important that I didn't see... What does this mean for Peppers? If we play a 4-3 and less Nickel I'd expect Peppers to move to a more tradional safety role with Thomas as the deep safety. While I love the screen destroyer role I did think it allowed OSU to design their run off away from his side. I think getting him in the middle of field could make it harder to scheme away from him.
How do you feel the defense will impact Peppers and where do/how do you think he could make the best impact?
February 5th, 2016 at 12:22 AM ^
Actually Peppers ran through my mind because other thatn DL, I think he can play most any spot based on an ability to be block proof. He can get through or around anything.
But now that we have many more options, I will have to be realistic and think in terms of how Coach Brown might actually use him. Safety appears likely, at first thought, but I would expect they give ham a fairly long leash.
I am going to have to take a look at the BC D and see if it was based more on personnel restrictions, and see what measures he took to mitigate possible damages in executing what I understand to be full out attack mode, for virtually any position on the D. Judging by stats alone, he obviously is a brilliant tactitician. Looking forward to what he'll do here.
I've always enjoyed an aggrevise scheme, executed properly. My initial thought with increased talent level, capable of doing things at speeds he is not use to, he could even expand on many of the things he does well.
The Peppers question is a good one because this is a talent that doesn't visit often. I don't aniticipate having him and Gary on the field together for more than one season, so hell. let's enjoy. Looking forward to the feedback Magnus supplies.
February 5th, 2016 at 9:53 AM ^
For the record, I don't think Michigan will become a true 4-3 Under defense with a SAM linebacker like Shawn Crable (6'5", 245 lbs.) or Jake Ryan (6'3", 240 lbs.). That's why I think Uche is a good fit, because he's about 6'2", 215 lbs. and he'll probably be a little bigger by the time the fall rolls around. He'll probably be 220-225 lbs.
I also think one option that people haven't mentioned yet is Khaleke Hudson. Hudson is a solidly built kid who is physical enough to play in certain packages as an OLB, kind of like what we saw from Peppers as a slot corner last year.
My guess is that in our base package, we would see Peppers as the strong safety, but playing down in the box quite a bit with a single high safety (preferably Dymonte Thomas, IMO). That pushes Delano Hill out of the lineup, but I think Thomas is the better athlete.
February 5th, 2016 at 11:49 AM ^
First off thanks for the response... Sorry if I put words in your mouth. We both agree on the size/look for the SAM.
I think Hudson is an interesting thought but like Peppers I am not actually sold on him as a blitzer. I might be alone but I didn't think Peppers was a very good blitzer last year. I remember him attempt to circle around guys or jumping around but honestly I don't remember him getting much real pressure. I could be wrong and if I am point it out. I don't get the time to watch the tape for Michigan like I do other schools.
So we Uche is a good fit but as a freshman there would be clear concerns. Add to that he was a DE in high school and now I ask about how he is going to cover the flats and hook/curl areas. Still with so little tape evidence I guess we could ask that about anyone.
I agree with your thoughts on Peppers and how it would impact Hill. I hope Thomas finally catches all the passes he got over the top of last year.
February 5th, 2016 at 12:40 PM ^
So here's some evidence for more of a true 4-3 Under Sam:
http://www.maizenbrew.com/michigan-football-recruiting/2016/1/19/107912…
On Baron Browing, 6-4, 230 lb OLB
"He said defensive line coach Greg Mattison spoke to him earlier this week, and mentioned that they'd really like him at the SAM position, the same one he plays at his high school, which he says runs a "very similar" defense compared to Michigan's."
So here's my new casual fan/video game player theory. We know Don Brown, like most good DCs, will be multiple. Maybe we're recruiting SAMS for multiple looks.
There could be a traditional SAM, filled by guys like Carlo Kemp and Baron Browning in the 4-3 Under look.
And then maybe the hybrid SAM is another role filled by smaller LB/S hybrid guys like Khaleke Hudson in a 4-3 Over or spread look.
And then maybe Uche has the rare physical skills to slot in at either the traditional SAM or hybrid SAM?
February 5th, 2016 at 1:03 PM ^
There's no way around the fact that a position like this is going to be dependent on the offensive package. If we're playing a team that's going 5-wide, we're not going to leave in 4 defensive linemen and 3 traditional linebackers. Someone like Baron Browning is not a good fit for any of the linebacker positions other than SAM, in my opinion. If we're playing Iowa or Wisconsin or Michigan State, you want a bigger guy like Uche, Browning, etc. If you're going against a team that spreads you out, you want a guy who can play in space (like Hudson, Peppers, etc.).
As I mentioned above, though, a SAM who is a good pass rusher is not someone you necessarily want to take off the field against a spread. As Michigan did with Jake Ryan, Cam Gordon, etc., they would remove a defensive lineman or another linebacker while moving that SAM around for blitzing opportunities. For example, if we think of the game against WMU a few years ago where Jake Ryan blew up the QB and gave Brandon Herron a long INT TD return, Ryan was blitzing from the A-gap (IIRC), even though his "official" position was the SAM linebacker.
February 4th, 2016 at 11:37 PM ^
So I found this artice on Milano and it mentions the position a little. Here are the relevant bits:
It is Milano’s hope to follow in the footsteps of Kevin Pierre-Louis and Josh Keyes, both of whom were hybrid players in Don Brown’s marauding defense with the skills to play in coverage, rush the passer, or set a hard edge against the rush.
That’s sort of a hybrid position,’’ Brown said. “I had [Colts linebacker Sio Moore] at UConn for two years and it was the same deal. He can run, he can rush the passer, and he can play linebacker in the box.
February 5th, 2016 at 6:22 AM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:33 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 10:55 PM ^
This is our best current hybrid option.
February 4th, 2016 at 11:17 PM ^
February 4th, 2016 at 11:58 PM ^
ideal SAM is about 6'2", 220 and fast. Brown often converts safety recruits to the position
an earlier poster mentioned Furbush is down to 217.
Devin Gil is up to 220 and moving to LB
Here is my post from an earlier diary:
#4) outside linebackers/WDE
This is where it really gets wierd. Carlo Kemp is an OLB/DE hybrid type that will probably red-shirt. Josh Uche is a low ranked OLB prospect who is faster than all of our WR commits. Devin Gil was originally a safety prospect and he is also faster than most of our WR commits. Ron Johnson might fit this role.
Importance to scheme: 1/9 Very unimportant in the near-term. Will eventually be very important under Brown. Expect red-shirts with a schematic transition to more 3-4 and less Hybrid Space Player after Peppers departs.
Importance to depth chart: 8. Important for Brown to bring in the type of athletes he will eventually utilize. Expect this to become more important in future years.
February 5th, 2016 at 12:08 AM ^
and McCray doesn't overcome injuries, that almost locks Gedeon and Devin Bush Jr. into the starting ILB slots
ILB depth is now scary thin, with a true freshman starter and a true freshman as the first backup, unless Brown wants all or most of his LBs to play light. LB is looking kind of crazy.
February 5th, 2016 at 12:14 AM ^
February 5th, 2016 at 12:27 AM ^
Wrangler too. Don't even know how to make sense of the LB depth chart anymore. We have safeties, defensive ends, and linebackers all in the mix. starting to get really excited about a position (LB) that I thought was going to be boring at best. The 'expect redshiirts' thing was obviously a bit off too.
February 5th, 2016 at 12:58 AM ^
No. 1,) He's a good athlete, probably better than a lot of people assume. Hell, receiving two offers from progams in the BIG is proof of that.
No.2) He's a firerce competitor. It's in his DNA, and if anything like my son, Dad probably had to reel it in a little bit, not unlike Jack with Jim. But much better to be born with it and learn to focus it than not have it. I really don't know if it's something you pick up later in life.
No. 3) He's smart. He might not possess the speed and athleticism that many of his teammates have. Then again, he might. As I said, Ihave never watched him. I do know, no matter where he plays, it won't take him long to figure out what's going on in front of him and how he can make his job as easy as possible. And if a play ever comed down to a missed assignment, it won't be him making it.
I do hope he's afforded the opportunity to prove himself, but he understands he'll have to earn that honor. If you see him on the field, no that he has and I think you'll be happy.
February 5th, 2016 at 8:04 AM ^
probably Winovich too. At least Bush and Kemp are already on campus. The lack of experience was always going to be alarming, but if McCray is healthy we'll have a good mix of options. A scheme with four true DL and a lot of blitzing takes some of the pressure off of them. I still expect to see a lot of nickel.
February 5th, 2016 at 1:20 AM ^
February 5th, 2016 at 2:22 AM ^
We need dahani jones.
But hee was way faster than 4.7
February 5th, 2016 at 3:13 AM ^
Has anybody seen this article yet?
breaks down what Brown did at BC. Looks like he ran a ton of 3-4 so interesting that he talks about running a 4 man front.
February 5th, 2016 at 6:41 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
February 5th, 2016 at 8:56 AM ^
It's just sometimes a guy will have his hand in the dirt and sometimes he'll be more of a standup guy, depending on his strengths and situation. FWIW, the WILL position is more of the DE/LB hybrid type, the SAM position is more of the Stevie Brown type.
February 5th, 2016 at 11:01 AM ^