Warriner Discusses Tackles
Warriner gives an update on where we are with the tackles. Says that Mayfield is getting about a quarter of the first team reps in practice, Hudson a little more than that. Expects to see them more on Saturday than we did last weekend. Reading between the lines it sounds like they really want those two guys to take the jobs at some point this season.
September 12th, 2018 at 2:58 PM ^
I think that they might like Hudson to take the job, but I doubt the same for Mayfield. It did sound like he was almost explicitly saying that, assuming the game goes as expected on Saturday, they'll get into more of the game than they did against WMU.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:37 PM ^
Mayfield thinks he is ready and should be starting. If his growth trajectory is legit now seems like it’s the time to get him his snaps.
I am sure it’s tough to send a hard working upperclassmen to the bench but it’s about the Team right?
September 12th, 2018 at 4:11 PM ^
The team is probably best served by having the replacement earn his reps rather than him getting them only by virtue of the other guy not doing well.
There’s a lot of psychological gamesmanship involved in personnel decisions. If the young guys practice well and feel they’ve earned a start, they’re much more likely to go out there with some confidence and maybe play their best. Whereas, if they get a start just because the other guy struggled, they might not have the same confidence. And a bad game can really shake their confidence further.
September 12th, 2018 at 6:48 PM ^
Earning your reps is also a tactical decision that a coach makes in terms of setting the threshold.
September 13th, 2018 at 3:57 PM ^
I agree a lot with what you're saying here. There's a fine balance and thin line to walk with young players. Consistency and performance have got to take precedence and playing time has to be earned. However, if a player is consistently under performing (AKA Runyan) then at some point he has to be pulled. Having a few games with some cupcakes helps right now... But come Wisconsin, we have to have this line straightened out and clicking or its gonna be a long year!
September 12th, 2018 at 5:25 PM ^
O'Korn said he was ready, too.
September 13th, 2018 at 9:18 AM ^
Don’t poke fun, JOK was the most NFL ready QB in the 2018 draft.
September 12th, 2018 at 6:03 PM ^
Here's the full Warinner press gaggle (courtesy Isaiah Hole):
September 12th, 2018 at 4:28 PM ^
That quotation at the bottom of the article makes it sound like that in isolation, but without the full interview, I'm not sure if what he said was narrowed by a specific question about Hudson.
September 12th, 2018 at 2:59 PM ^
Wow... that's actually about as close to an admission that you want a younger guy to play over a veteran as you can get. I am surprised he's so open. I wonder if either will get any time with the ones.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:00 PM ^
Yeah, I was stunned by a Michigan coach openly discussing things like that.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:07 PM ^
Hmm. I didn't read it like that. He basically said "the best player will play." I am not sure what is atypical about that.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:13 PM ^
OL and QB seem to be positions that once a starter is named, coaches very seldomly waiver in their support publicly.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:27 PM ^
True, but our tackles don’t normally get abused as much as we saw in week one.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:34 PM ^
Yeah. I mean, in this case, the play is so egregiously bad that I think it's ok for the coaches to acknowledge it. I'd actually be kind of pissed if they didn't. Respect for Warinner: incremented.
September 12th, 2018 at 4:27 PM ^
Except for CBs the coaches rarely say anything critical or "real" about anyone in pressers. Lots of coach speak, positivity and naming the entire rotation or 2-deep when responding to questions.
From a behavior standpoint this staff has been willing to switch up starters mid-season. Ulizio, JBB, & Onwenu all lost their starting jobs last year. So did O'Korn. I don't really care what they say in a presser as long as they're willing to try and find a better guy.
September 12th, 2018 at 5:36 PM ^
Most positions are just inherently more likely to rotate. You don't bat an eye if two NTs switch in a game, or even a series. That's something coaches can say "the best guy gets more snaps" because it's not a controversial thing. Playing more than one QB, and to a lesser extent, rotating OL is abnormal and implies there's an issue, fairly or not. The coaches tend to be a lot less open about discussing people pushing through from behind at those spots.
September 12th, 2018 at 6:23 PM ^
Normally that's the case, but the writing is on the wall. I think he's trying to use this to motivate Hudson and Mayfield to try and take that extra step. Plus if Runyan and JBB get their feelings hurt over this, I can't imagine how bad it was for them in film after the Notre Dame game.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:04 PM ^
Perhaps this is taking something out of the Zordich playbook and trying to light a fire under JBB and Runyan? Not saying it's all talk, and we may very well see both those guys start at some point in the season, but Warriner seems like a no B.S. kind of guy in terms of what he expects - with Harbaugh bringing it up unprompted and this take from big Ed, maybe its a bit of a sink or swim notice for the veterans?
September 12th, 2018 at 3:08 PM ^
I think ND's DEs did a fine job of lighting fires under our tackles.
I'm less inclined to worry about "coded messages" during the season, especially when we've all seen the issue. It's no secret that Michigan's tackles are a real trouble spot. I'm sure that Runyan and JBB are working really, really hard to improve; that they got to play most of a blowout tells me that the staff is giving them every chance to do so.
But the ceiling is low for these guys. The guys behind them want to play and they have a chance to get good enough to do so.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:50 PM ^
Fair point re: ND defense.
I did wonder though if the staff is taking that game with a grain of salt as I'm sure passing to make up 14-17 point deficit wasn't exactly the gameplan going in and put them through the ringer in passblocking.
Either way it seems like the young guys will get a chance at some point this season when they're ready.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:53 PM ^
Yeah, and there's really no downside to saying something like this about OL as opposed to your QB. So much of the quarterback position is about confidence and being in the right mindset that they usually don't like to openly shake that confidence.
But with most other positions, if you can light a fire under the incumbents AND the backups (because if they know they're close, they'll go the extra bit to get there), it probably helps both.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:05 PM ^
Last weekend we saw Mayfield at LT and Hudson at RT. If Hudson is taking more reps with the 1s, who is he replacing...JBB or Runyan? Has to be Runyan...right?
September 12th, 2018 at 3:21 PM ^
Someone reported that Hudson has been RT pretty much all camp/season. Not sure if that is accurate, but if it is, it would seem odd to do that and expect him to replace the LT. Especially given his limited experience.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:31 PM ^
FWIW, the coaches said Runyan was penciled in for sure before they said JBB would be a starter. Usually, you want your better OT protecting the blindside. I think JBB is closer to being passed than Runyan. Also, it's preferable to have guys get reps at the position they will be playing.
September 12th, 2018 at 9:01 PM ^
I agree but think the larger point is that Hudson would likely replace JBB, yet Runyan is the one most fans are more concerned about. JBB seems to be at least a + run blocker whereas early returns on Runyan indicate he is struggling with both. If this is true then Mayfield’s readiness is more crucial than Hudson.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:09 PM ^
This sounds like the absolute right way to coach this to me. It increased my confidence in Warriner and upholds the notion that they want the young guys to take over
September 12th, 2018 at 3:33 PM ^
Yeah it was pretty explicit. Like everyone else I was surprised he was that candid.
On a side note, anyone else on the DL that wants to switch over and play OT?
September 12th, 2018 at 3:43 PM ^
We should just recruit sumo wrestlers. Worked for Gene Hackman and Keanu Reeves...
September 12th, 2018 at 4:44 PM ^
Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever.
September 12th, 2018 at 5:01 PM ^
Great movie, Keanu Reeves as Shane Utah (or was it Johnny Falco?), under cover for the FBI to infiltrate the striking NFL players union.
September 12th, 2018 at 5:03 PM ^
...and then kill them all. Because it was Keanu Reeves as Ted Wick.
September 12th, 2018 at 7:48 PM ^
No, No, you're thinking of 47 Ronin. You know that movie about the serial bomber (Rufus) who's actually the antichrist, and Keanu defeats him by swallowing the blue pill.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:11 PM ^
That's as open as I've heard an OL coach be to swapping out a player. Almost always they insist they've got the best 5 publicly until they actually make the switch.
It sure does sound like they want the younger guys in as soon as they're ready to go.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:24 PM ^
Here's what I don't get. Wouldn't putting them in there help them get ready? If a switch is possible/likely doesn't that mean that the younger guys are already "close" to those playing? Never mind, answered below by RoseInBlue.
“But the next guys in at a lot of positions are young. We’ll just bring them along at the right pace. If you put a young guy in there before he’s ready, you could ruin him, really set him back. If you bring him along at a pace he can handle, then you’ve got something for a long time.”
September 12th, 2018 at 3:29 PM ^
I think it's a variety of Devin Gardner PTSD. Put them in too soon, they get absolutely smoked, and they lose confidence. Wait until the game slows down a little--let them struggle, but not so much that they give up or over-react.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:40 PM ^
I think there's a second reason. What does it tell your players if you put in the young guys before they've earned it on merit?
September 12th, 2018 at 5:06 PM ^
This is a big one. They had a chance to win a job in the fall and didn’t. Now, even if the first guy is struggling, the coach can still stand in front of his team and truthfully say that he’s playing the guys that give the best chance to win.
It’s incumbent on the backup to play so well that he can give the coach cover for making the change, without losing the respect of the team. Hopefully that happens sooner rather than later. But it takes some time, especially for Mayfield, who is just a few months into the program.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:15 PM ^
Not a big guy so never had any experience with line play....but, for those who have, is there ever a scenario where a guy could be a lousy left tackle but able to keep his nose out of the water playing right tackle?! We all know how technical the position is so I've wondered over the years if it's truly a "you're either a good tackle or a bad one" or if there have been instances where a guy struggled with his technique (i.e. pass-pro) from one side but had a considerably better grasp on the opposite side of the line.
September 12th, 2018 at 4:04 PM ^
Well, you're usually going against the opposing teams best pass rusher when you're at LT. So yes, there is absolutely many scenarios in which you'd get blown out at LT by the teams best/quickest DE, but could manage against a slower anchor/SDE.
I think that's exactly where JBB exists right now. Not good enough to be lousy at LT because he'd get blown out by most WDEs/OLBs but playable (by necessity) at RT against SDEs. I think because of that, you can be a little bigger and slower (and hopefully a better run blocker) at RT because the guys you're playing against are bigger and slower.
September 12th, 2018 at 4:40 PM ^
Length and footwork/speed speed seem to be more important at LT. These are to counter the speed rush moves that more commonly come from elite pass rushers on that side of the line. An LT needs to be able to move his feet quickly to set up and seal off the angle of an outside speed rush. He also should have have long, strong arms so that even when he loses a bit of outside leverage he is still able to fight the pass rusher and impede his flow to the QB. Good feet and long arms also help counter a quick DE or OLB's spin move and other moves/transitions from an inside to outside pass rush. Put another way, your LT needs to be able to quickly move his feet and/or use his long strong arms to transition from an outside seal to inside if the DE makes an initial outside pass rush move and then dives inside. The fact that a right handed QB can see what that the DE on the RT side is doing as well as the fact that the DE/OLB on that side may be a notch down as far as talent/speed means an RT can give up a little bit on both areas that LTs are asked to excel. Traditionally RTs have also been asked to run block more, so they may be a bit more of a mauler, but I'm not sure that is as true as it was years ago.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:17 PM ^
It's happening.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:18 PM ^
“But the next guys in at a lot of positions are young. We’ll just bring them along at the right pace. If you put a young guy in there before he’s ready, you could ruin him, really set him back. If you bring him along at a pace he can handle, then you’ve got something for a long time.”
This is the part a lot of fans clamoring for Mayfield and Hudson to start right now don't seem to understand. You can't just throw them into the fire before they're ready just because their ceiling is higher. It would do them more harm than good and it most likely won't yield the results you're demanding anyway.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:27 PM ^
But Kyle Kalis got thrown into the fire early and look at how he turned out
wait
September 12th, 2018 at 3:28 PM ^
their ceiling
September 12th, 2018 at 3:31 PM ^
Fixed. Thank you.
September 12th, 2018 at 11:52 PM ^
Is it the fire when the opponents are WMU, SMU, Nebraska and Northwestern? Notre Dame Opening night? Absolutely, but the idea was the young tackles could work through some things with lesser opponents. By the time we reached the meat of the schedule, their confidence would be there. Hopefully that’s the plan.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:19 PM ^
It is actually kind of...weird to see a Michigan coach basically say that there is a possibility of seeing younger guys play over the older ones. I like what he's saying, but I can't really recall anyone who has even kind of thrown it out there like that.
September 12th, 2018 at 3:38 PM ^
Very true but you know the old saying:
"Desperate times call for desperate press conferences"
Or something like that.