US vs Mexico Gold Cup Final
The US/Mexico rivalry heats up again tonight from Solider Field in Chicago.
Will we see the US team that started to look like a real soccer team in that first 16 minutes against Jamaica, or does Mexico put us in our place, leaving more questions then answers.
Bring home two trophies today! USA! USA! USA!
Does the USMNT typically struggle with possession the way it did tonight?
I feel like you may be another one of those delusional soccer fans. The USMNT is bad. By no metric are they good. Sub par athletes, poor coaching, poor development. Pulisic is far and away their best player and he might be slightly better than your average Premier League player. The USMNT is a long long ways off of being a good team.
Again, you are going off to the extremes. I never said that the US is a good team, rather that they are playing better then they have been in the recent past.
I understand you lose to a rival in a big game (god damn this is cutting too close to Michigan football) that the instant reaction is to be pissed. But looking at the way they have played in the past month, and adding a player to center mid and getting some of the players that would be instant starters (Brooks) would make this team look real competitive, and even (gasp), good.
I appreciate what you're saying but I just don't see it. We don't have the athletes nor the skill to consistently beat a team like Mexico much less the teams that are actually "good" ie Germany, Brazil, Belgium ect.
In my opinion, nothing will change for this team until the athleticism of the team improves. Same reason the USWNT is so good, they've got better players.
I appreciate the discussion.
Its a cultural thing when you start talking about the GREAT teams of Brazil, Germany, etc. They breathe, eat, sleep soccer. US has too many other sports so I don’t know if we will ever have our best athletes playing the game where the big money is all overseas.
Continue to watch this team grow. You can only play a max of 14 guys a game with subs, and I think you will start to see the team fill out nicely by the next World Cup. Key guys are getting on bigger stages in the most competitive club teams, which like you said, is what is gonna give us an advantage at the end of the day.
Athleticism isn't the problem, per se. It's having guys that are both highly skilled and athletic. That's where the US is lacking. Only Pulisic and maybe McKennie qualify as both. Pretty much everyone else is either athletic, but without elite skills (Zardes, Altidore) or skilled but not elite athletes (Ream, Bradley).
And that's a depth issue. There aren't enough elite US athletes living and breathing soccer and being developed from a young age. Some elite athletes play soccer but it's a sport that skill is just too important not to have.
No one is going to the extremes. They are not good.
Past USMNT teams were far better than this one. nothing I am saying has anything to do with being “emotional about losing to a rival.” I didn’t even know Mexico was a rival. But this team wouldn’t even get out of the group stage of the World Cup. A good team would. This team isn’t good. It’s ok. It’s not a big deal.
Boy, you're talking an awful lot about something you know nothing about, assuming that you're telling the truth about not knowing Mexico is our rival. That's just stupid and makes you look irrational.
I'm talking an awful lot about a sport I know very well. I mostly follow Premiere League, UEFA, Europa and some of the other major leagues (Serie A, Bundesliga, Eredivisie, La Liga etc.). However I don't really follow USMNT and the only international soccer i watch is the world cup. A "good team" is not hard to spot. Even novice fans can usually tell which team is better just a few minutes into a game.
so prove to me my points are incorrect.
would you agree that a "good team" would make it out of the group stage in the world cup? This USNMT sure wouldn't.
There have been 21 World Cups. The US has actually competed in less than half (with one coming simply because they were the host nation), only getting past the group stage 6 times, and past the round of 16 twice. The USMNT program isn't good and either is this iteration.
It's facts. I get people want the US to be the "awesomest ever" with bazookas going off and bald eagles flying overhead of tanks and shit but US is, and likely will never be, very good at soccer on an international level.
Far better is absolutely not true. Which USMNT was FAR better than this one? I say that mostly because they've never been good enough to be far better than this team.
Your assertion that they are "not good" is kind dependent on your definition of good. Are they a team that could go to the semis of a WC? Not at this point, no. Are they a team that could get out of the WC knockout stage? Yes, they could. It wouldn't be expected but that's never been the case for the men's team.
Remember, this is a Mexico team that just last year beat Germany and got out of the group stage and the US played them very even last night. They were unlucky not to get a goal or two and probably had more good scoring chances than Mexico (Jozy, the Arriola header).
And yes, Mexico is down Lozano, Vela and some other guys but the US is down Adams, Yedlin and some guys too.
It is not a bad take. It is merely true. I can think of 20 or so teams that would smoke the US. This team, if it could even make the World Cup, would not get past the group stage.
Past USMNT teams would beat this one. This team isn’t good.
The USMNT never seems to be quite good enough, like a Tommy Amaker team, which is a marked contrast to the USWNT.
Is every USA/Mexico game played in the US a Team Mexico celebration like this?
It seems stunning to someone who doesn’t follow soccer / USMNT that Mexico is playing a home game in Chicago.
oh yeah...its always a home game for mexico against us...well most times
It's especially troubling because the games at Azteca are obviously one-sided affairs, with awful officiating and hostile crowd (Mexico fans have been known to throw cups of piss at US players in these games).
US fans have to bring it in games like this. I mean, I get that there are tons of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans in the States these days but damn, that was tough. THe disgraceul "puto" cheer was way too loud tonight.
It's our own fault. It's not like the stadium will only sell tickets to Mexicans. USA fans are allowed to buy tickets too . . .
I wasn’t blaming anyone. It’s just a stark example of which country truly cares about the sport.
Oh my! Once again, fans thinking that they are difference-makers! Oh my!!!
My comment had nothing to do with the fans in the stadium influencing the outcome of the game. Rather, fan attendance like Mexico demonstrated can be viewed as a proxy for the country's passion for the game/team.
In my opinion, it explains why countries which are smaller and have less overall resources can punch above their weight class. The ultimate example is Canada and hockey -- hockey isn't a sport in Canada, its a religion and explains why a country with a population of roughly 35M can compete at the very highest level.
Not the best example. Hockey is an incredibly inaccessible sport to most of the world, because it requires, you know, ice. There are so few other counties that could compete in hockey because of that limitation.
So the pool of countries that even have a chance at being competitive in hockey in pretty much Russia, Canada, parts of the US and Scandinavia/parts of northern Europe. Maybe Japan if they were inclined to care about Hockey.
So the "very highest level" of hockey is greatly limited by opportunity.
No. The game was sold out as soon as Mexico clinched the final, which was a day before the US even played their knockout game. After-market tickets were going for $200 and up. There is a big American Outlaw contingent in Chicago, but there weren't any tickets to be had.
I live in Chicago and thought about going, but didn't want to spend that kind of money to likely see a loss among 90% Mexico fans.
I'm sure many Mexican fans purchased their tickets prior to their semi-final game which American fans could have done as well.
This is absolutely the fault of US fans as they had the same opportunity to buy tickets.
And as soon as Mexico made the final, it became financially advantageous to buy tickets for American fans regardless of whether the US advanced because Mexico's participation guaranteed a strong secondary market. Buy the tickets, attend if the US advanced, sell if they didn't.
3 minutes is fucking bullshit
Possession.
Possession.
Possession.
Foul and hand ball right outside the box and the ref swallows his whistle. Fucking joke.
Berhalter outsmarted himself with the subs tonight. Second half was absolutely terrible. Roldán played hard, but that’s about it.
In the end, we should have finished our multiple opportunities in the first half when Mexico was undisciplined and unorganized. Second half they tightened it up and we had no answers
Honestly, that's the difference between us and the world class teams.
They finish the chances the USA had. We don't.
Aside from the whole being able to make passes and keep possession thing. This is not a great Mexico team. They are still so far away from the top teams in the world.
Oh yeah, I fully get that. The best teams in the world basically have 11 guys of Pulisic's talent on the field. We have one.
Yeah it’s scary when you think about it like that.
But at least we have one for maybe the first time ever! I think McKennie is near that level as well. Really encouraged by Reggie Cannon's play the last couple games. There is some intriguing youth here (although I feel like we say that every 10 years or so and guys don't quite pan out).
Altidore displaying the kind of finishing touch that served Sunderland so well in the first half, and there is simply no one in the center of the midfield who can make things work up the middle. Missed opportunities and an inflexibility to adapt when the went down a goal is what doomed them. Nevertheless, they exceeded expectations tonight. Well done El Tri.
Maybe we should have let the women play this match. At least they can get the ball out of their own half.
US Women are always way more inspiring than the men. Men could learn a thing or too about how to play with some flare and personality and attitude.
U15 FC Dallas would like to have a word.
Was it me or was the officiating god-awful? That guy was fucking terrible. How was the dude jumping on Altidore in the 46th minute not a yellow, if not a red? Totally unnecessary. And then how does the guy choking McKennie on the same play not get tossed? DIrty play by Mexico all night and he called about half of what he should have and soft fouls were getting whistled on US. What a fucking disgrace.
Only organization more incompetent and crooked than the B1G/NCAA is CONCACAF/FIFA.
It was terrible
Yeah for a game in the US, this was abysmal officiating.
USMNT just like Michigan football - always a year away.
except without the history
And the future
Keeping in mind that neither the USMNT nor Mexico was playing at full strength, but just going by the fact that Mexico was the pre-tournament favorite playing in front of what essentially was a home crowd, maybe a 1-0 loss shouldn’t be viewed as a complete disaster, but most of that second half performance by the USMNT was somewhat painful to watch. Still, the USMNT had some opportunities to score and they’ll remain the next-highest-ranked CONCACAF team in the FIFA rankings behind Mexico.
Next up will be (a) putting together a U-23 team that can try to be one of the two CONCACAF teams to qualify for the Olympics next year, (b) scheduling some friendlies in preparation for the CONCACAF qualification matches for the 2022 World Cup and (c) making a decision as to whether Carl Yastrzemski’s godson (Gregg Berhalter) will be the right choice to lead the team into World Cup qualifying.
I guess the women won and we landed Franz so I guess 2 out 3 aint bad, but damn it would've been nice to beat MExico in that game.
Last night I watched soccer.
Pulisic looks like if a 5-star went to CMU. He sticks out like a sore thumb. If he's just an average Premier League guy, we're screwed.
Altidore looked slow, but his size and control were really impressive. Some nice passes out there.
Bradley was an absolute disaster. Even as the most casual of casual fans, it was obvious. He's the midfielder? Isn't that kind of important? Like the cog that initiates attacks and transitions and all of that? And that's the best we've got? In a nation of 300 million? He wanted nothing to do with the ball. That seems bad. Like anytime we had a threat turned away and the ball was backed out to midfield, that's when teams usually tic-tac-toe it around and then find another run down the wing. Not us. Anytime that attack was stopped, it was 3 or 4 passes until our defender was running backward and kicking it back to our own goal. What the hell? What was that? I've never seen that happen so often. And 98% of the time it resulted in the keeper just bombing one down the field -- so what the hell was the point of possessing and retreating in the first place? If you're just going to end up panic punting in the face of medium pressure from your own goal mouth back out to midfield anyway, why not just lob it back into the box when you've got it there in the first place? I'm sure they had better plans with that than what occurred, but just looking at the results... yikes.
I'm sure it's an idiotic thought like moving a WR to QB, but can Altidore back up to Bradley's position? He seems better suited skill-wise. Let some youngster run his face off up front. Altidore can just body dudes in the middle of the field, win 50/50 balls and distribute. Maybe he sucks defensively? I dunno. Whatever.
Thank God I wasn't playing the drinking game: "Take a drink every time a US player panics for no reason and throws the ball away"
Number 7 was good. Defenders seemed okay. Whatever happened to Yedlin? Is he still alive?
My idiot plan moving forward for USMNT: Find 3 or 4 more elite players and then win lots of games. How hard is this? Fuckin' Warde!
Thanks, Soccer. See you next year.
He's the defensive mid-fielder which doesn't have sole responsibility for initiating attacks and transitions but yeah, he's just not very good out there. Mexico pressed him and he gave away possession too many times, which is a fairly regular thing for him now.
Not really sure who the other options are though. The US team doesn't have a ton of guys skilled enough to play that position well.