Urban discusses the 3-3-5

Submitted by Blue Balls Afire on September 15th, 2023 at 5:06 PM

Just some info regarding the 3-3-5 from Urban and Gerry at the Bee-Juan--Gee. 

https://youtu.be/zAnXMzEUZVI?si=mo_LGH3PODVsv5Jy

We're seeing this kind of defense more and more.  I say keep repping outside zone.  We don't have to be the best at it, just adept.  We have enough cupcakes in the early schedule to get a lot of game reps, which actually seems to be our strategy.  Helps having JJ able to win games with his arm.  What a luxury.

Tunneler

September 15th, 2023 at 8:32 PM ^

Just rewatched the movie and it was touching how Walter was so caring for Donny as he lay there dying in the parking lot. After demeaning and dismissing him the entire movie prior to that scene. Like Walter knew exactly what to say to someone as if they were dying in ‘Nam.

PopeLando

September 15th, 2023 at 5:17 PM ^

I remember when Don Brown used to have the defense line up in 3-3-5 to bait opponents into checking to run plays…and then post snap, reveal IT’S A TRAP 

JonnyHintz

September 16th, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^

I don’t think the original post about running stretch was about the 3-3-5 in general. It was about stretch being the counter to duo beating concepts and aggression in ANY defense. It was merely coincidental that the last couple teams that employed these concepts were 3-3-5 defenses. 
 

Ultimately, schematic alignment is pretty irrelevant in today’s game. The difference between a 3-3-5, a 4-3, and a 3-4 is largely null with your 4-3/3-4 teams spending the vast majority of their time in nickel packages. 
 

We can look at the Michigan defense as an example. Our “base” defense is a 5-2 with Jenkins-Graham-Grant on the interior with two edge rushers and two middle linebackers to go with a 4 man secondary. BUT, it’s 2023 and nickel defenses are effectively the “base.” So we lift one of those tackles and add another DB. Now, Michigan is running a 4-2-5. But because of the versatility of our edge rushers, it could also be described as a 2-4-5 or a 3-3-5. All depending on how you choose to classify the likes of McGregor/Harrell/Moore/Stewart/Guy. Same with the 5-2 base, is it more of a 3-4 or a 4-3? 
 

Teams are constantly altering personnel, activating different positions into the run game, and doing all kinds of different things so that there’s no specific way to beat a specific defensive alignment. The 3-3-5 isn’t inherently more effective at stopping Michigan’s duo/power than any other defense, but it’s what the players are doing that is designed to limit those types of runs. You can play ultra aggressive against the run in any defense, you can shoot the gaps in any defense. The way to beat a team doing those things, is running more outside zone. 

Blue Balls Afire

September 15th, 2023 at 5:40 PM ^

My bad.  There has been a lot of discussion by Brian, Seth, and the gang on using outside zone to counter 3-3-5 and attacking defenses on their various podcasts and on this board over the last two weeks so I didn’t want to repeat what I thought was already known. Anyway, Seth had a great discussion about it in a post-UNLV write-up. Once I locate it, I’ll edit this post. 

EDIT: Neck Sharpies: Stretch is Expensive | mgoblog

Colt Burgess

September 15th, 2023 at 10:40 PM ^

Urban has no conscience. He goes from scandal to scandal and just pops up again on your TV screen as if nothing happened. He was a total failure in Jacksonville, but that fact is also completely ignored. Most people outside of Ohio view him as a total douche, but the television people continue to treat him as a god. What ever happened to shame? I love that our coach was not afraid to speak the truth: That scandal follows Urban wherever he goes. 

tybert

September 16th, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^

Against some of the B1G power teams, the only way 3-3-5 works is if you have a Mazi Smith in the middle and guys like Hutch and Ojabo at the ends. Plus LBs like Bush Jr, David Harris, etc. And some Marlin Jackson types in the secondary. 

MaizeBlueA2

September 17th, 2023 at 8:42 AM ^

If you have a 3-3-5 with Hutchinson and Ojabo as your ends, you are royally fucked.

That's a waste of Hutchinson. And I'm running right at Ojabo all game.

If you play a 3-3-5...you want Grant (or Mazi, or Graham) as your nose. Jenkins and/or Graham. Benny's profile would be great as one of the ends as well. 

Hutchinson can hold up on that DL, he's just getting double teamed by a TE every single down and because you made him one of your 3...you can't move him around like Michigan did. Ojabo is getting destroyed unless it's an obvious passing down and he's going 1-on-1.

Bush would be the MVP of the defense, he would FEAST in this defense.

The 5th DB is the intriguing question. 

Do you make it a slot corner/cover nickel like Sainristil or Jourdan Lewis...or do you make it a hybrid player like Peppers?

Dax and Marlin Jackson lean more hybrid, IMO.