Tyrone Wheatley comments on how close Michigan is to a NC
Sam Hellman at 247 posted a brief blurb with link to audio of Tyrone Wheatley's commenting on how close Michigan is to contending for a National Championship.
https://247sports.com/Article/Michigan-football-Tyrone-Wheatley-Morgan-State-131108763/
“They’re close every year, every year they’re close,” Wheatley said beginning at the 32-minute mark of the podcast. “I think, right now, the biggest issue that they have, it’s not really so much an issue, I just think everybody always blames the coaching staff. I just think it’s young men coming together and truly understanding that they have to outplay the coaching. What I mean by that is, I’ve been in the huddle myself as a player and a call will come in or a play will happen, the coaches can’t always put you in the best situation possible. This is the reason why they recruited me to come to the University of Michigan. To make things happen. To play far beyond the play call.”
Source: 247sports.com
2006 OSU. Crable doesn't wrap up the RB in the backfield and he goes for a 50+ yard TD.
April 11th, 2019 at 11:23 PM ^
What also didn’t stop Curtis were the 5 or 6 defenders close to tackling him, but who were obviously held. That play pisses me off way more than “the spot.”
Excellent! Because I, of course, agree. The great coaches I have played for coached the hell out of the fundamentals to us then turned us loose/encouraged us/gave us permission to do what ever it took to make the play. Be alert and pay attention over rode all the rules. Here it may seem like a fine line but it is a most critical one.
I tell this story often and if you have heard it...sorry. Bill Cowher, upon the retirement of Troy Polamalu, was asked what made Troy such a great player. "He could play much better than we could coach." And Bill gave an example of an interception Troy had made-where Troy, per the play, had no business being there. Bill said he asked him what the hell he was doing over there, "I don't know...I just knew that was where the ball was going".
Or that incredible play that Jeter made against the Red Sox where, as the shortstop, he cut off an errant throw from right field to home-in foul territory down the first baseline no less...and got the runner out at home. And they won the game 1-0...and I think the only run of the game was Jeter going yard off of Pedro.
But there are many such plays that happen on a smaller scale in every game-that often go undetected.
Thanks again, Coyote.
So much better I always read that with Johnny Cash's voice in my head.
Since we're all "reading" into it.
The coaches might make bad calls, but just like the players, they're competing against other coaches. The coaches might make a good call and Nick Saban makes a better one. The ability to win your match ups and make plays when the play call doesn't win it for you is important.
Similarly, when your players aren't capable of making THE play(s), it's up to the coaches to make better decisions than their counterpart to ease the weight that is on the players.
We've seen players make terrible plays. We've seen terrible play calls that can't be explained. Making a sweeping statement that it's either 1 or the other is silly. It's a confluence of processes, coaching decisions, and players that results in the final result.
I could point to Shea making a stupid throw late that results in an INT. I could point to Brown refusing to spy a mobile QB on 3rd and 7. The coaches have to do better to give their players opportunities to win their match ups and the players need to then win those match ups consistently.
That all being said, IMO the coaches didn't do a good enough job last year to give their best players a chance to make plays consistently.
This may be a shot at the coaching staff, I don't know.
But I think his larger point is that the players dictate the outcome. If the coaches make a shit call, you've got to get into the end zone anyway. YOU have to win the game. If it was just the coaches who determined national champions, they could bring in any players and win. But you're at Michigan because you're a great player, so you are the reason the team wins or loses.
I totally agree with this. I don't see enough selfish players on our offense that demand the ball and and go score. We don't have enough playmakers. Even if the coach calls a play that usually goes for a 2 yard gain on 3rd and 10, you scream at the QB and tell him to throw me the fucking ball on a deep route. Then you make the catch, flex, and the coaches won't say a thing about it. That's probably what Wheat did on many occasions.
Sometimes you need to ignore a play call or assignment. I'm sure the best players are there because they always listened to their coach and never make a decision on their own.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or genuine here, but to clarify my point, I am not saying ignore the play call or assignment. I'm saying if they call a play that's typically a 2 yard out to the tight end on 3 & long there are other routes being run by the WR's. Maybe the outside receiver runs a go route to clear out that side for the TE. You grab the QB by the facemask and say throw the go route because we're not losing this game. Beat your defender and get the first down / score. If the coach asks the QB what's up, say they saw something and felt the go route was the right choice. The coaches will shrug or pat him on the helmet. But no one will question the WR.
Wheatley's saying the game is up to you sometimes, be special and win.
He is saying "Someone make an F'ing play"
well, if Tyrone says it, it must be true
God he used to be funny. Shame he went off the deep end.
Still is apparently. My buddy saw him a couple years ago in Grand Rapids and said it was his funniest material yet.
Didn't he have a new special come out in 2017 or some shit too?
Yeah it was on Netflix. I keep meaning to watch it.
Also, I miss R rated Eddie Murphy. My cousin took me to see Raw when I was 7. It was awesome.
90% of all plays called are intended to score a touchdown. Most of them don't. The guard is supposed to block the guy across from him, the WR is supposed to get separation from the CB, the RB is supposed to make the LB miss, or out run him.....
Whether the perfect play is called, or a play that hasn't been working is called, the players have to execute and do their job.
I'm guilty of criticizing the repetitive "run into the middle of the line" for 1/2 yard or no gain, but the reality is, there was supposed to be a hole there, someone didn't do his job.
I guess that's what Wheat is trying to say.
I'm guilty of criticizing the repetitive "run into the middle of the line" for 1/2 yard or no gain, but the reality is, there was supposed to be a hole there, someone didn't do his job.
So, not everything is black and white and saying it's always the coach's or player's fault is wrong.
BUT, that doesn't mean watching the 7th run up the middle for 2 yards failed because the players didn't execute. Running up the gut with 7 blockers against 9 defenders isn't going to work out consistently unless you have guys taking out multiple defenders, RBs breaking tackles, and things like that. It worked against Minnesota in 2017 because Michigan could bulldoze inferior opponents and even get guys to take themselves out of plays by filling the wrong holes.
Coaches are supposed to try to put their players in the most advantageous situations. A lot of those runs don't necessarily put the team in disadvantageous situations, but they're not the BEST play call imaginable.
He said U-M is close but players have to make more plays. Yeah, that sounds about right. Take for example Metellus' near interception near the Ohio State goal-line. That was a game-changing play that turned the tide of the game in their favor. We make that play and who knows what would have happened. Ohio State continues to make those plays whereas we continue to falter.
Another example is Jabrill botching the overtime tackle in 2016 nearly 8 years from the line of scrimmage. No one really remembers it due to the JT call, but if Peppers makes that play Ohio State is kicking a 50+ yard field goal with a kicker that had already missed earlier in the game rather than going for a first down on 4th and 1.
My scar just opened up and salt was poured back in...Whhyyyyyyy
But great points....gotta make those plays when they are presented, shit even just half of them. We have been hitting on ZERO of them lately, at least thats what if feels like.
That Metellus drop, IMO, cost the game. Make that play, he might've even housed it, we go up by a few scores.....ugh
Any one of a half-dozen players on probably double digit opportunities to put the game out of reach against Iowa in 2016. Jourdan Lewis not allowing the TD on the last defensive play against FSU in 2016. I mean he made every single play he had to make that year, except one. Geez, somebody make a tackle on the kickoff instead of letting it be returned 60+ yards. But remember that weird kickoff, everyone kind of stopped thinking he downed it.
What if Maryland completes that simple pass against OSU last year. That's not what Wheatley's referring to, but it's another achingly close play that went against Michigan.
The team is close.
This is why we lose to OSU every year. Their guys make big plays and ours don't. Yes, the refs got the JT spot wrong. Our defense also blew the chance to have them at 4th and forever on the play before. 4th and 1 never happens if someone just makes a tackle. Just one example, but we all know the dropped INTs, the terrible INTs by our QBs, fumbles, the dropped passes, etc. We need guys to step up and make big plays on the biggest stage.
Wilton's goal line fumble in one of the OSU games is a true WTF moment.
I mean, definitely, the biggest issue with Michigan football during the Harbaugh era is that the team just doesn't make plays. The coaches can't block the rushers, throw the passes, catch the balls, break the tackles, etc. The coaches can only recruit the players, coach them up, and call the plays that put the players in the best position possible to make a play.
We've got all the talent in the world, mostly great coaching, and vastly improved play calling. It just comes down to making plays. And since football is such a low sample size sport, the difference between a mediocre, good, or great team can come down to making a couple of key plays in a season.
Penn State's 2016 season title came down to Marcus Allen & Grant Haley making one of those season defining plays. If Allen doesn't block that field goal late in the 4th quarter vs Ohio State (and Haley outrun the Buckeyes to the endzone), their season is a mediocre 9-3 kinda thing where they lose to Ohio State and Michigan (& Pitt lol) and go to a whatever bowl game. Instead, Haley saves the day and they use the momentum to win the B1G championship and get a memorable Rose Bowl appearance out of it.
I'm with you, but I don't think we have as much talent as you think we have.
We haven't had a great RB in over a decade. Good ones, sure, but not great. Imagine last season, or 2016, with someone like Saquon Barkley on the team. That's what we're missing.
Straight talent wise, Michigan is top 10 every single year. Sure, there are gaps here and there the likes of only Alabama, OSU, and UGA don't have. But Michigan is as talented, if not more so, than 10/13 teams on their schedule every year.
Is the talent always developed from their recruiting rankings to actual on field results? No, but again, Michigan develops their talent pretty well.
The gap last year was 3rd CB and DT. OSU abused the 3rd CB spot and the DTs couldn't get any pressure in Haskins' face. Would better talent have fixed that? Sure. But in lieu of that, coaching has to figure out ways to cover those gaps up the best they can.
I look at it as a question of difference-makers: players who can significantly impact the course of a game by themselves, who force the other team into changing what they'd normally do, even if it means going away from what would be their strength.
Over the past decade, I don't think we've had many real offensive difference-makers beyond Denard. We've had a bunch of capable, good players, but that's about it. We've had a few difference-makers on defense, but even so not enough to have enabled us to win on defense alone.
We have those difference-makers, but at receiver. Perhaps things look better when they're getting thrown at 30 times a game instead of 15.
Darboh and Chesson were good college WRs, but they weren't difference makers. Jake Butt was a good TE but his production underwhelmed his senior year, and he didn't make any Give Me The Fucking Football plays in 2016 against great opponents.
In 2017 we couldn't throw because our OL was so horrendous that it would have led to assault charges against Harbaugh. The OL was much better last year, but still very bad against good pass rush defenses (ND, MSU, OSU, UF, oh look surprise we lost to 3 of those teams).
We didn't pass because we couldn't reliably protect the QB.
I'm not discussing 2016 or 2017. In 2018 we had Ferraris at receiver and rarely used them. Even when the playcall got them open and in the progression, Shea often looked elsewhere.
I'm not sure that Gattis is going to make much of a difference, but the emphasis on using our WR athleticism is something I'm 100% on board with.
April 12th, 2019 at 11:23 AM ^
The post you replied to is talking about 2016, 2017, and a decade back.
My post addresses 2018: we couldn't reliably protect the QB in big games. The philosophy was run the ball, put take limited risks where possible, get a few TD's on the board, let your defense bring it home. This after ND nearly decapitated our QB. It won 10 straight games. With OSU's poor defense, there was very good reason to believe that offensively this strategy would work against OSU. It's easy to point out after the fact that it did not.
I don't know what happened in the bowl game, that should have been a fill the air with footballs offense.
"We've got all the talent in the world..."
If one of the attributes of superior talent is making key plays at critical junctures of important games, I'd say we don't have "all the talent in the world."
That is a IF. Especially, since talent is specifically judged on natural ability rather than proven execution.
Please don't get it twisted, coaching has a lot of blame in all this too. Tipping plays with formations and player personnel packages that come in and out come to mind on offense. Calling a PA pass on your own 2 with WIlton Speight. Out dated philosophy that playing for 3 and defense will win you ball games against the top teams. Refusing to mix up anything either side of the ball does against OSU.
And if it is only about players making plays well it has been enough time that the coaches have brought in their recruits. Maybe just maybe they need more top flight talent that some complain about not getting and then others try to prove every 3 star is Mike Hart.
How much of this is just self promotion? He's a coach now (and is friends with the staff) so he says you can't always blame the coaches and then he brings up what a great player he was. I don't think he's really trying to take shots at anyone.
It's not about the Xs and Os, it's about the Jimmys and the Joes.
I can't wait to play Florida in a bowl game
That kinda sounds like a backhanded insult to the play calling/coaching. I mean, if you're an o-lineman all you gotta do is block your assignment. If you're a d-lineman you have to do is beat the guy across from you. If the ball is thrown your way you catch it. If you carry the ball you beat the guys trying to tackle you. If you're covering or tackling a guy you do so. But, that doesn't mean your team can keep up with the other team or you are winning enough of those individual battles. But, there are certainly players that seem so good they can do whatever. Think of guys like Charles Woodson, Steve Hutchinson, Jake Long, Taylor Lewan, Braylon Edwards, Deon Sanders, Tryan Mathieu, Cam Newton, Vince Young, Deshaun Watson, Jadeveon Clowney, Ndamukong Suh, etc. They could dominate games regardless of scheme or coaching. But, those guys are rare. It's still a team game and requires a bunch of guys to win those matchups.
The bottom line is UM is not yet as talented as OSU, Bama, Clemson and the playoff teams. They are vying for second place in the B1G with PSU, Wiscy, etc. They are top 15 team, but not a top 5 team yet. But, if they continue to consistently recruit top 10 classes, Brown learns to adjust when his pass rush doesn't get home, and Gattis can utilize some offensive weapons better, the resources are there. We just need one goshdarned win over OSU to get this ball rolling.
I beg to differ. Many of the best moments even in recent years came when a player knew to go off script. De'Veon Smith would sometimes get screwed or make the wrong read but he'd make up for it with sheer, raw wrath, getting the yards the blocking would've given him by carrying the entire defensive backfield on his shoulders if that's what it took. It was to the point that on one occasion it looked like he warped through a meat pile because any other player would've gone down but he bull-rushed straight through a mosh pit. That wasn't coaching, and the guy isn't in the NFL. He was a very coachable player, but he added his own playmaking ability on top of what Wheatley asked of him.
I can think of other players; point is, coaching and assignments only go so far and generational talents don't have a monopoly on playmaking ability. With that in mind, the guys we have now give me the impression they can make a lot more plays than what they've shown so far. I'm not questioning their effort and there's something to be said for discipline. Maybe they're afraid of making mistakes and that's fine, but that just means their understanding of the game and themselves is far from complete.
I think what he is saying is the players need to make big plays regardless of what the play call is. Wheatley definitely did that in his UM career, but he was a special cat that could turn a 4 yard play into a 50 yard TD.
Hopefully the new offense unleashes some of that play-maker attitude Wheatley is talking about.
Would like to see number 6 running for M even NOW.
I agree with him.... he is saying indirectly that it cannot be an excuse if the playcalls are ideal... that the players still need to execute.
Michigan is no where close to a national title. Even in 2016 which was our best team since 06 we weren't better than Bama or Clemson.
I want to know how close we are to a Big Ten title. Baby steps. We would laugh if Iowa had a similar discussion.
I'm sorry, but I really don't think we're that close. Are we closer than we were when Hoke left? Absolutely. But this program has to get past the huge mental and psychological landmine that is OSU. And we seem to step on that landmine every single year and blow ourselves to pieces. That game is, in my mind, more psychological now than it is physical. We've got the physical talent to beat them (If Purdue does, so do we). But OSU has built up 20 years of confidence in knowing that no matter what the score says going into the fourth quarter, they're going to beat us. We have 20 years of PTSD in wondering how we're going to fuck it all up. We could be up by three TDs with 5 minutes to go, and I'm sitting there wondering how we're going to blow it.
Until we can reverse the dominance OSU has laid upon us the last two decades, we will never be more than what we are now: a good, occasionally great, but never truly elite program.
Purdue didn't play the same team. OSU went to Purdue assuming the Boilermakers had no one who could keep up with them and a conservative gameplan that assumed a win was assured as long as they didn't screw it up. Purdue played like they had nothing to lose and had more quickness than OSU counted on.
OSU did not make, and will never make, such mistakes against Michigan. Cooper showed that beating Michigan is more important than anything else, so any football HC at OSU that doesn't want to get run out of town will make sure that OSU plays their best game of the year against Michigan, every time.
You may be right about Purdue "not playing the same team," but my original point still stands. You know you're always, ALWAYS going to get OSU's best game. Until Michigan gets over this psychological hurdle (they are absolutely in our head at this point, living there rent-free for 20 years) and actually beats a noteworthy OSU team, they're never going to be taken seriously as a title contender by anyone outside the city of Ann Arbor. Nor should they be.
If they can't beat OSU, then they're not going to be able to beat Alabama or Clemson.
Things we need to do before winning a national championship:
- Beat OSU
- Win the B1G
- Make the playoff
- Win a semi final game
- Win the national title game
Can the team please just focus on those first two? I never understood this "national title or bust" attitude so many of us have. It's damn near impossible to win one, and we're coming up short on MANY of the goals the team has.
Going 10-2, beating OSU, winning the B1G are massive accomplishments. We don't need national titles to be relevant. Think of how dominant OSU has been the past 15 years, and most people were surprised at them winning the title - that is how hard it is to win.
Please beat OSU and win the B1G. There's a 0 percent chance the team next year beats OSU, wins the B1G, and wins a national title after going 15 years without having done the first two things.
One step at a time.
I mean we're talking "lighting in a bottle" to the nth degree if Michigan beats OSU, wins the B1G, then beats two of OU/Clem/Bama/UGA to win a national title after doing nothing really big in 15+ years.
"It's not the coaching"
Yours in perpetuity,
-Rich Rod
-Gerg
-Borges
-Hoke
-Nuss
-Funk
-Drevno
-Pep
April 11th, 2019 at 11:37 PM ^
Drevno is the worst of the bunch.