April 24th, 2019 at 10:34 AM ^
“bUt ThRoW oN fIrSt DoWn!!! Herr herr herr!!!”
April 24th, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^
If this is referencing the thread about the banner that flew above the stadium, then all I can say - again - is that old adage which begins, "If you can't laugh at yourself..."
April 24th, 2019 at 10:38 AM ^
NOT BUHLEEVIN TILL IM SEEIN IT
April 24th, 2019 at 10:48 AM ^
I know I'm uber cynical BUT I'll believe it if it is still in place after several consecutive quick 3 & outs and Harbaugh has to send the defense out gassed.
That's the acid test for me.
April 24th, 2019 at 10:54 AM ^
I have seen this argument for years. I still don't understand how a 3 and out in a no huddle is any different than a 3 and out with a huddle.
The defense gets gassed when it can't get itself off the field. 3 and outs are bad regardless for the offense.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:03 PM ^
That's a huge pet peeve for me.
Many people more knowledgeable than I have made good arguments for different offenses.
But I've run into too many armchair fans screaming 'modernity' and 'spread' who are less bugged if an offense goes 3 and out running a spread set with 3 dropped passes than if they run the ball 3 times.
The end result is the same.
The assumption, which I believe to be mostly true, is that a defense on the field for 85 snaps is going to be less effective at the ends of games than one on the field for 65 snaps. A no-huddle offense, regardless of scheme, and a passing offense, leading to more incompletions, is more likely to get your own defense to 85 snaps than last year's Harbaugh offense--huddling and running the ball.
If you go three and out with Harbaugh's offense you are still taking time off the clock and thereby shortening the football game.
This isn't to say one is better than the other, but if you aren't moving the ball with the no-huddle you are both not scoring and leaving the defense in a worse situation down the line in the football game.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:07 AM ^
So how does that play out on the sidelines in your mind? 2nd quarter against MTSU, 9 & out, Harbaugh marches over to the offensive huddle:
"Alright guys, this isn't working. Forget everything we've worked on all spring and all of fall. How many guys were here last year - let me see a show of hands? Okay, you 11, go out there and we're going to run all of that Pep stuff. You guys remember, right? I'm sure you do. If not, we'll figure it out. Oh, and piss off Gattis."
Something like that?
April 24th, 2019 at 11:14 AM ^
It has happened before why wouldn't wouldn't it happen again??
April 24th, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^
My honest reaction was a confused look on my face, asking myself "is this guy serious?" and then actually audibly saying "What the fuck are you talking about?"
Tried to find a gif, but couldn't properly encapsulate all of that.
If you don't think they have abandon what they have worked on in practice for weeks then you haven't been paying attention.
Based on your position here, I am to assume that you do not believe the comments of all this spring that Coach Gattis is leading the O independent of Coach Harbaugh. Do you believe that is all crap? If so, then your error in thought seems defensible. I tend to believe large egos when they speak in unison since that leads to commitment. Both men have large egos. The offense will not revert mid-game unless Harbaugh yanks play calling from his O-coordinator. I don't believe that happens mid-game. Could happen in between but that would be a huge act of desperation.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:54 AM ^
No. What I fear is the week after that game we go back to huddling and snapping the ball with less than 2 seconds on the play clock each and every time to give the defense rest.
And to address the comment before yours the difference is when the ball is snapped. I get you can go no huddle and still play slow by snapping at the end of the play clock but everything I've read so far seems to indicate we're going to try and incorporate some elements of tempo which means the possibility of three quick incomplete passes does exist.
Honest question for you. Doesnt the sheer number of times Gattis and others have said "no really - Harbaugh isnt involved in the offense" make you wonder just a little bit?
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:58 AM ^
I think the sheer number of times is because the media keep asking about it. I do not find it suspicious.
April 24th, 2019 at 10:49 PM ^
Yeah exactly. The media tends to beat things to death. Who the OC is, is a 3 year topic now. Media will keep asking who's offense it is to try to get a different phrasing for their ''breaking news" article and the coaches will keep answering because it's relatively harmless and then there is less time for the media to ask them a question that they aren't comfortable answering.
Edit: other thing I want to add is about the tempo. I'm not worried about the d getting tired. We arent going to be faster than chip kelly Oregon or art briles Baylor. We were so slow last year we didn't even have a 2 min offense. We didn't have a 4 min offense. Any move towards tempo is an improvement, but I doubt we will morph into lightning quick in 1 off-season with a new playbook and new calls.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:10 PM ^
I think they're being asked, repeatedly.
I'm not really worried. Harbaugh let Fisch have more of a lead.
Harbaugh isn't dumb. And given his track record of getting coaches who are very good I don't believe he's stubborn.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:23 PM ^
You can line up and stare at the sidelines for all but 2 seconds of the play clock too. The key is to lock the opponents defense on the field so they can't substitute freely. As soon as you go into the huddle, they know they have time to make changes. If you line up, you can hike it whenever you want, as long as you don't substitute.
One of the things that bothers me about modern spread football are those teams that line up quick and then spend 20 seconds looking at the sidelines trying to get just the right play called.
Its the philosophy change that needs to happen the most. I have zero doubts it will still be old Michigan football on establishing the run first and foremost over everything else offensively.
I think people keep asking them constantly about it. Hell, if they said "we've already discussed that, can we move on?" people would immediately claim "WHAT ARE THEY HIDING? WHY WON'T THEY SAY WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON? DISCORD IN ANN ARBOR!?!?!?!!111"
Harbaugh is undoubtedly still somewhat involved in the playcalling but by all accounts he seems to have handed most of the decisions over to Gattis. He did bring him in, and Harbaugh doesn't seem like a guy who'd do something for purely cosmetic reasons.
Harbaugh will be involved in the high-level direction the offense takes situationally. Meaning, do you get aggressive, do you try to run 4-minute, time for a trick play, because he's the head coach. He will also likely be involved in some of the direction (go back to that play, it was open; start sprinkling in some counter because the defense is reacting in this way; etc.).
But like Harbaugh with other OCs he's coached with, they get to implement many of their own general schemes and principles, etc. This seems a little different as many I don't see some of the Harbaugh staples we've seen previously (which I don't necessary like, as I don't think they had to scrap that much of what they did; but it isn't necessarily a bad thing either), but this is Gatti's offense.
Here’s how we know Gattis is in charge of the offense:
Harbaugh said it from the start. Gattis said it from the start. Harbaugh may be some things but he’s not a liar. Gattis wouldn’t have come if he wasn’t calling plays. Harbaugh and Gattis are still saying it. We saw it in the spring game. On top of all that, Jim MF Harbaugh skipped the initial offensive staff meetings to go to the Super Bowl with his son.
Might Harbaugh have some role in the offense? Of course! He’s the head coach and de facto second QB coach who is known for tinkering. But there’s little credible doubt about who’s in charge of scheme and the primary play caller.
April 24th, 2019 at 10:39 AM ^
Cool little video, thanks for sharing
April 24th, 2019 at 10:56 AM ^
What's his beef with Sam Webb? Or did I miss something?
April 24th, 2019 at 11:16 AM ^
He was being facetious dude.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:48 PM ^
Figures.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
I want the offense to have the opportunity to not huddle after every play - and to allow Patterson to make some of his own calls.
An offense in rhythm makes a huge difference. When's the last time you actually thought the offense was 'flowing'?
April 24th, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^
@Seth -- have you considered using this format for Neck Sharpies?
April 24th, 2019 at 12:04 PM ^
Cool video. Although, one thing I don't really get here, is what's so much more 'modern' about this offense aside from the fact that it's not under center? All the routes and concepts are not exactly groundbreaking, to the semi-trained eye.
- It is a no-huddle that checks to the sideline. This lets the coordinators take their time to choose a play that will attack the specific alignment/personnel grouping of the defense in real time, unlike the cumbersome playcalling system from last year that locked us into bad plays.
- It prevents the defense from subbing.
- The heavy use of RPO, which is made easier by being in the gun and not huddling. In the one play, it was an outside zone read with the DE optioned. If he took Shea aggressively, Shea would give. If he took the RB or slow played, Shea would keep. Then he read Michael Barrett to either throw the swing or the seam. That is so incredibly difficult to defend.
- Giving most run plays a backside option to balance the offensive numbers instead of just booting the QB under center or letting him watch the handoff.
What I see this offense doing is reducing the amount of 0-2 yard plays. Most of these plays have some sort of a safety valve built in, whether it be a high-percentage checkdown or scramble, which will allow more plays to gain something.
The pass concepts are pretty standard WCO/Air Coryell type stuff. It's very similar in a lot of ways to Borges's pass structure as Seth alluded to in his Neck Sharpies post. Some of the concepts even have similarities to what was run last year (like the Yankee concept) or even more so when Jedd was around.
The bigger things as far as "modern" are a few things: 1) The basic idea that vast majority shotgun/pistol is more modern than a mix; 2) The diversity of the QB run game (which itself is a throwback, but toward a different style of offense than much of the Harbaugh throwback); 3) The QB reads, especially as to how it pertains to the run/RPO aspects.
April 24th, 2019 at 12:45 PM ^
I like it. Given Gattis saying they've installed 90% of the offense, I'm optimistic that we've got a lot of plays like these with mutliple options for attack depending on the defense. Seems like more of the decision making will be on the QBs this year which I'm comfortable with given Shea and Dylan as QB1a and QB1b with Milton just a bit behind them.
Lots of options on each play, tempo to lock the defense into bad matchups, and quicker developing pass routes than last year, and speed in space. I'm sure it's not without its flaws, and may not fully sync into a little past the first few games but I'll probably be less mad about running into stacked boxes so I'll take it.
Milton just a bit behind Patterson and Dylan?!? I will believe that when I see it. Milton could not have looked more lost last year.
By comparison sure but this offense is apparently similar to what he ran in high school and he's still being mentioned in the same breath as the other two guys in every interview with the coaches. Not to say there's not a clear gap there but all reports are he works incredibly hard and has all the arm strength in the world. Give it time - he may pan out, he may not, but last year he was a freshman who only saw limited late-game action when it's hard to get in there and do much that's useful. That said he was 3-4 for 58 yards and had 7 rushes for 31 yards. Granted his other throw was a pick but hard to validate that he "couldn't have looked more lost" last year.
Yes by comparison because that’s what “just a bit behind” is - a comparison. I’m not giving up on Milton nor would I give up on any freshman with game experience. My objection is to the notion that Milton is “just a bit behind” as if he could lead the offense this year if called upon. He cannot. That is not to say he someday wont. But he is not a viable option right now.
Great stuff. I love Michigan football.
I really like the Top Ballin' breakdowns, he's done a few of OSU/Fields as well. He's typically knowledgeable, understands his concepts and at least says basic techniques he's looking at from time-to-time. But he does, in my opinion, tend to be very much on the optimistic side. That's fine, he's mostly getting people excited about football and schematic stuff, but he's rarely hard on players or coaches related to being critical of technique/limitations, from what I've seen.
By the way, the biggest, biggest thing I've seen that I'm been impressed with is Patterson's use of working up into the pocket. I hope it holds after he gets hit a few times, but it's telling for what McDaniels has been able to coach in a relatively short time period.
April 24th, 2019 at 11:03 PM ^
Just curious what makes you say it's due to McDaniels? And not becoming a senior, more focused, or Gattis or something. McDaniels seems to be flying under the radar, not getting as much hype as the Gattis hire. Has he done a presser yet?
It's worth reading Baldwin's comments/replies on YouTube under the video. He clarifies that he thinks Michigan as a program is structurally like Clemson -- both emphasize the family atmosphere in recruiting (vs. the business atmosphere of UGA or Alabama), both have "super aggressive, attacking 4-3 defense(s)," the fan base is impatient with Harbaugh like Clemson's was with Swinney, etc. I won't post it all here -- I'd recommend checking out the video (and his comments). It's helpful to hear from another analyst/commentator who is tied into recruiting and doesn't have any Michigan bias.