SIAP: #NotNCAAProperty movement gaining momentum, Isaiah Livers is among the organizers
More power to them. It will be interesting to see where this goes.
I agree, but what would their actions be if the NCAA said you can't play this year due to Covid? Would they then be demanding to play. With the changes coming with NIL, this seems a little like grandstanding. I'm just a little confused by the timing.
I think they would want a representative to participate in the discussion of whether to play or not. Someone whose interest is explicitly to advocate for the student athletes.
this is the best timing there ever was.
i'm just waiting for a team to refuse to take the court in the final four unless the ncaa makes changes. the players be villified, and all the usual choads will have vein-popping rants about how lucky they are to be playing in the first place, but after a few years we'll all realize they were right.
March 18th, 2021 at 11:36 AM ^
Everything we're hearing about the NCAA bubble is that it's real fuckin draconian and unpleasant. NBA guys were chafing at the Disney bubble but they at least got paid to be there.
I don't think it's surprising that a bunch of guys forced to spend the next month living in conditions that 95% of people would find unpleasant would become pissed off knowing it's being done so a bunch of other people can make money. The NCAA just finds new ways to one up themselves on being completely tone deaf and incompetent.
March 18th, 2021 at 12:35 PM ^
The NCAA is smarter than that. They put all of those decisions on conferences. They're too busy raking in the dough.
Hopefully, this does take hold and they get what they want, because there is nothing unreasonable or unwarranted about what they want. Quite honestly, it would probably be a nicer world if the NCAA was simply forthright and agree that it does not, as an organization, give one whit about the basic humanity of student athletes, as evidenced by Hunter Dickinson's breakfast for a start, not to mention other things.
Hunter Dickinson's breakfast?
Please elaborate, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Someone tweeted out a pic from his IG that showed a breakfast with a one or two scrambled eggs, 2 pieces of bacon and a small helping of potatoes. Given that he probably needs more than 4,000 calories per day, that might be a little short. But hey the NCAA gets their billions!
March 18th, 2021 at 11:45 AM ^
When I was in college I would often eat an entire Tony's frozen pizza for dinner.
That's 1,200 calories and 51g of fat.
And I was a 5' 9" guy who weighed like 165. So you can imagine what Dickinson generally eats.
Nah, I think one wet egg is plenty to constitute a complete breakfast for someone of Hunter's size.
They don’t give one whit about the basic humanity of student athletes? I mean c’mon. That’s a little over the top.
These players are making tremendous sacrifices to make this hopefully work, which should be appreciated by everyone. But I saw a delivery order for UNC and the news report said some players were ordering 2-3 items. The news story further said that teams can place one single order with a restaurant at a time for their entire team. Maybe I’m missing something.
One of the worst parts of all of this is Jon Rothstein tweeting a response saying everyone should just be happy we have a tournament at all and players should be willing to put up with this stuff to play.
Hey Jon...I know you're also living in the bubble, but you're getting paid to do so. The players are the only part of the equation that isn't making money.
The players are getting free hotel rooms, free food, free equipment, free training, massive scholarships, and an unprecedented opportunity to promote themselves nationally for their future. The players have every right to opt out of this tournament, but none of them is willing to give it all up at this point just to get more money. Several of them talk to the talk, but no one has managed to walk the walk.
The 2018 Michigan team was dangerously close to organizing a boycott of the Final Four. Duncan Robinson has talked about it before.
The main thing this #NotNCAAProprerty movement is about is allowing players the right to their own name, image, and likeness. They literally just want to be able to make money on the side, whether that's through a YouTube channel or doing a commercial with a local car dealership.
Yes, they get a free education. Yes, they get a big spotlight and opportunity. But why should that come at the cost of personal rights?
As Geo Baker noted, college students on music scholarships can still make money. Students on academic scholarships can make money tutoring. Why can't students on sports scholarships do something similar?
Your points are sound - and I don’t disagree with the idea of receiving compensation for NIL. But this ‘dangerously close’ thing and Duncan Robinson ‘has talked about it’ is further confirmation of my point: All talk - but no action. Every single one of these players saying they are exploited will voluntarily play (unless prevented by injury).
To this point it has been all talk - but no action. But it seems like this whole thing is a bubble waiting to burst. The first steps have been taken--players opting to go overseas or to the G-League instead of college and talks of boycotts.
If NCAA is going to die on this hill of not allowing NIL rights, then I could easily see this coming to a head in the near future.
Your point is "you're getting something, and you should be happy you're even getting that" and it's tiresome. These players have a skill, put in a ton of work to hone it, and want to reap their fair share of the rewards. If your employer told you "you're doing great, we're going to pay you in free lodging and company store credit equivalent to your previous compensation" would you be super thankful for that?
March 18th, 2021 at 12:03 PM ^
" These players have a skill, put in a ton of work to hone it, and want to reap their fair share of the rewards. "
Probably 15% of college basketball players are reaping their fair share of the rewards.
About 5% are not getting their fair share.
About 80% are getting more than their fair share.
I’m so sick and tired of this exploited crap from college athletes. These players are treated extremely well and get perks no regular student will ever see or get because they play a sport. Look if it’s so tough then walk away from it pay for your own education or find a way to make money a different way from playing a sport.
What would you say to the majority of college athletes who aren't on full-ride scholarships?
Are you now arguing that a non-scholarship water polo player is being exploited? I am trying to understand your question/logic here. Stop crying for college athletes - they are extremely privileged! And if they feel oppressed, no one is enslaving them to play their favorite sport for their school.
I'm arguing that student-athletes should have the right to their own name, image, and likeness. It's not asking for that much
March 18th, 2021 at 12:24 PM ^
Which comment is more racist, your first or your second?
The fact they have to have rules in place to stop the additional compensation is proof enough that they are underpaid/undervalued. And to what end? Why do we care if they are compensated further outside of what the school provides? It's so odd people are so in favor of restricting others' ability to earn, for no discernable benefit.
exactly - we're talking about simple supply and demand. their services are extremely valuable, and their compensation is limited by fiat.
they're "underpaid" BY DEFINITION.
March 18th, 2021 at 10:23 AM ^
we should care because certain people won't have their entertainment. and these same folks will have their fantasy of the noble student-athlete shattered. Pay them.
"thanks, hunter. here's a copy of john thompson's book."
...
"what are you complaining about, it's a PERK!"
March 18th, 2021 at 11:03 AM ^
See, I'd argue the billions of dollars these athletes generate for their schools, coaches, TV networks, shoe companies, etc. via playing these sports would necessitate at least being treated "well" and getting some "perks". Anyway, I'm sure you'd never ask for a raise at your job or better work conditions if you thought you deserved them - I mean, if you didn't like your current situation you should just find a different way of making money.
March 18th, 2021 at 12:09 PM ^
No other student with a marketable skill would have to forgo compensation as a pre-requisite to attending a college and getting a scholarship. It is only athletes, and the reason this is still the case is simple: if business owning donors and corporate apparel partners can just pay players directly for their skills, they no longer have to write big fat donations to the schools' athletic departments that athletic dept administrative staff can skim huge percentages off of to pay their own grotesquely bloated salaries.
Major athletic departments run a skim that would put the old mobs who ran Vegas to shame, and they know NIL threatens their ability to continue to steal money from young men who earn it. Do you want young men who play a sport you love to get paid or do you want some faceless suit who contributes next to nothing to get paid, that's your choice.
I haven't read this take since last century.
"all talk - but no action" is a perfect description of the beginning of literally every labor movement that has ever existed, and most organizations that dismiss labor concerns with a paternalistic "oh, they'll work, they don't have a choice" lose. they just do.
the ncaa, and athletic departments, dismiss this discussion at their peril. it's coming.
Oh look kids its a pull yourself up by the bootstraps kind of guy.
Piss off champ
March 18th, 2021 at 11:00 AM ^
Well, a bunch of coaches also talk about how they want to look out for the well-being of their athletes and yet still cash those checks, and the NCAA has consistently given lip-service to caring about the athletes and wanting to do what's best for them...and then threatens them constantly with negative repercussions if they violate any of their biased rules.
Also, if a guy stated that he was going to sit out a game people would rush to call him a quitter who let his team down. Heck, when guys have opted out of the season to focus on their pro prospects a bunch of talking heads rushed to call them out for, as you said, trying to get more money (via the NBA). What I don't get is how fans, with no real financial stakes involved in how athletes are compensated or represented, have issues with these players seeking to better their positions.
March 18th, 2021 at 11:43 AM ^
The person to whom you are responding is very likely one of those "he's a QUITTER who LET THE TEAM DOWN" types.
I absolutely loathe the "but they get paid in other ways" argument. If I slap a $10,000 price tag on a paper clip and give you the clip, it's bonkers for me to claim I compensated you $10,000. Similarly, while a college education is indeed valuable, it's wholly dishonest to pretend as if these athletes are getting $40,000 salaries.
That is one bad take.
March 18th, 2021 at 10:55 AM ^
I feel like Rothstein is low-key a guy who absolutely wants to yell at every college player "stick to dribbling" and doesn't get that his entire livelihood is based on profiting off their work.
I get the point, and believe they deserve what they're looking for. But they're demanding an Executive Branch meeting in their favor and for the SCOTUS to rule a particular way - like those are two things they can get by simply demanding them. I'm not sure they worded those two requests as well as they could have, but I hope they get both.
Unfortunately, SCOTUS, as currently structured, has proven itself to be far more favorable for large business interests (like the NCAA) than for individual plaintiffs. Let alone for civil rights...
I would chalk that up to either lack of experience (these are college kids who haven't had a ton of exposure to the real world just yet) or a reach-for-the-stars approach.
March 18th, 2021 at 11:01 AM ^
well said!
They get a $300K education handed to them. They can leave early and not finish their 4 year commitment. But they still feel cheated. I don’t get it at all. Most kids that go to a great school like Michigan, are paying off their student loan until they are 40.
Most kids don't provide the labor for a multi-billion dollar industry while they're in school...
In 2019, the NCAA made over $1 billion and usually makes more than $800 million from March Madness each year ALONE (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/04/21/ncaa-saved-money-case-…).
So yeah, the education is great. Its value is still unproportionate to the amount of money that is made.
To reiterate a point I made above, all these players want with this current movement is the NIL rights. A college student on an academic scholarship can make money on the side by tutoring or working part time. A student on a music scholarship can do the same. Why can't a student on a sports scholarship?
Keep in mind, the $1B figure is revenue; it's not profit. Most athletic departments aren't profitable even with their NCAA cut. Brian and others here seem to have this idea that most schools are like Michigan financially, when in reality most are more like EMU.
The argument that student-athletes should be allowed to independently profit from their likeness is sound enough, but the "NCAA is a billion-dollar conglomerate" thing is mostly a red herring and waters down the argument, if anything.
But new buildings have exploded with multiple in development at the same time, coaches' and assistants' salaries have increased by orders of magnitude, TV contracts like Big Ten Network are funneling tens of millions more to schools than existed even 10 years ago. All this to say, athletic departments are making MUCH more than they did a decade ago, yet are still "breaking even." In some ways it's a shell game of making the money disappear, and yet none of any of the increased revenue ends up with the players.
Because wins/losses/recruiting is zero sum, schools will spend everything they bring in (and sometimes more). But to say there isn't excess funds to give more to the labor producing the value seems wrong to me. If they were required to include the students in the cut, they could. We would just have smaller coach salaries, smaller athletic departments, less renovations and to me that's okay. We should start with the students and work backwards because it doesn't exist without them.
March 18th, 2021 at 10:31 AM ^
jmblue. are you frickin serious? it is a monopoly.
I'll not go into any detail as to how financially inefficient the college athletic system is.
They get what handed to them? You have state universities paying coaches more money than every other public employee in the state. Are you telling me that coaching college ball is deserving of 300X more pay than a high school coach at a public high school? If you do believe that, what does that tell you about what the athletes they are coaching deserve? Look at the free education high school kids are receiving with their free lunch for the poor kids, so the school can charge a door fee as well as profit from concession sales to supplement the funding of the high school. Stop with nonsense about a free education. Michigan now provides free tuition for low income students in state with no strings attached about how they can make money.
March 18th, 2021 at 10:51 AM ^
Let market forces determine their worth, not "fair" valuation by others jealous of full rides and benefits these student athletes do get.
I'm going to be paying loans from my Michigan education into my 40s.
It is also possible for me to believe that my classmates and fellow student-athletes get underpaid given their contribution to the university's general welfare. Pay 'em.