Blue in Paradise

January 24th, 2020 at 3:14 PM ^

Did the MGoCrowd seriously debate the morals of Catholic Church?  

Not opposed to a debate (if you want to call it that) on this topic but this is like website #4,352 on my list of websites where I would come to discuss religion (other than fake football coach “gawd talk” - the Hugh Freeze / Dabo Sweeney types)

Bo Harbaugh

January 24th, 2020 at 3:40 PM ^

Indeed.  No difference in believing in Zeus, Marduk, Baal or any of the others of thousands of religions past and present...yet somehow believers are certain that they found the answers in their specific faith, often the one they happened to be born into.   

I always get a kick out of religious folk that make fun of scientology or Mormonism, as if their religion makes any more sense, or is any less cultish amongst the true believers.

Flying Spaghetti Monster!

NittanyFan

January 24th, 2020 at 5:20 PM ^

Right, thank you.

The principle behind tithing (or giving) is that: (1) there is a Creator, (2) he is the source of all things, (3) which includes our job and money, and (4) giving is a symbol that we recognize that we aren't truly owners of what we have, but rather stewards.

If people don't believe (1) and/or (2) and/or (3), that's fine.  But (4) really does logically follow if one does believe all of (1), (2) and (3). 

Now, I've seen it happen.  I give $X to my Parish (or Alma Mater) - and then they go use it for stupid purposes.  But that's on them.  My donations go elsewhere in those occasions.

Blueverine

January 24th, 2020 at 1:13 PM ^

See, it's this kind of dumbass take that conflates the organization with the people. Every organization or enterprise has its flaws, some colossal like the Catholic church's. Those same organizations have as members, employees, followers, etc. the type of individual that has good in their heart and brain. You are just too damn small-minded to understand such a complex (s/) concept. 

Ready for the thread to go bye-bye.

Teeba

January 24th, 2020 at 1:33 PM ^

Negged for suggesting that Catholics tithe. I’ve seen studies report that U.S. Catholics give about 1% to the Church. In short, they tithe their tithe. I, myself, as a Catholic, decided not to contribute to my parish’s latest capitol campaign. The Church needs to focus on healing and transparency (and women’s rights,) and not on building more edifices to replace the ones they had to sell as part of the scandals.

Perkis-Size Me

January 24th, 2020 at 11:47 AM ^

Doing everything I can to keep my opinions to myself about said church......

I'm no Catholic (nor am I really Christian either), but while I can recognize that the Catholic Church has done its fair share of good in this world.....my god does it have its share of bad, too. 

The Mad Hatter

January 24th, 2020 at 2:13 PM ^

1.2 billion Catholics comprise 50% of all Christians worldwide and 16% of the world's total population.  The Catholic Church is the oldest single institution in western world, with roots going back nearly 2000 years.

There is plenty of abuse going on in every religion, including Islam and the protestant versions of Christianity.  It just doesn't get nearly as much press.

That said, many of us are disgusted with the way the sexual abuses were handled by the Vatican.  Donations are down and so is mass attendance.

But this stuff isn't being ignored or stuffed under the rug so much anymore. 

ChasingRabbits

January 24th, 2020 at 1:55 PM ^

unless said catholics stopped supporting that leadership, then I would say they are fair game too.  Saddly that includes my parents who sent me to Catholic school K-12, and are still giving money to the machine.  At this point, for many older churchgoers, it is just a little late in the game to give up the idea that the good lord will escort you into eternal salvation with the help of the friendly neighborhood priest. 

Harbaugh's Lef…

January 24th, 2020 at 1:26 PM ^

I guess that I'm a bigot that I have a huge problem with the Catholic Church spending millions of dollars suing New York State to stop the State from enacting the Child Victims Act... or that the Catholic Church buried the numerous credible allegations against four priests that served at the church I grew up going to or that one of those is a priests was someone I served under as an alter boy and abused several children that were my age at the same time.

The Catholic Church is reaping what they've sowed.

gpsimms not to…

January 24th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^

Super hot take alert:

The problem here is institutions, generally. The incentive structure presented to individuals inside the institution is such that their top priority is to propagate the institutions goals and its existence, at essentially any cost. i.e. the institution itself is amoral and just wants to grow at all cost.

The Catholic Church is basically Penn State is basically Baylor is basically MSU is basically (probably also) Michigan.

Please someone talk me down from this hot take ledge, but it's basically how I feel lately. Also, I don't really know how it is possible to make the incentives presented by such institutions align with incentives that promote general welfare.

TruBluMich

January 24th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^

All I got from that entire article was a member of the Saint's PR staff gave private advice on how to handle public relations.  It appears this was done because the owner is a Catholic with strong ties to the Church.  The entire article shows nothing about how they assisted in covering it up, it actually says the exact opposite.  I'm not going to be outraged over it.  I'm outraged at the people who did it and those who allowed it to happen. Not going to be outraged at the people who are victims or the people who work for the Catholic Church that had nothing to do with it.

Don

January 24th, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^

"All I got from that entire article was a member of the Saint's PR staff gave private advice on how to handle public relations."

The article clearly states it wasn't just "a member":

"Attorneys for the men suing the church say multiple Saints personnel, including senior vice president of communications Greg Bensel, used their team emails to advise church officials on "messaging" and how to soften the impact of the arch-diocese's release of a list of clergy members "credibly accused" of sexual abuse."

I presume Gayle Benson is the sole owner of the franchise, and if so, she is free to direct her employees to do whatever she wants them to do. If that includes helping the local archdiocese deal with a pedophilia scandal, that's her right. There are no stockholders whose opinions she has to consider.

However, I do wonder if the Saints franchise has been the recipient of public tax dollars.

Having said this, Gayle Benson is a freaking idiot if she thinks that having multiple members of her organization use their official Saints email accounts to assist the Catholic Church isn't going to be extremely controversial, especially given what they're assisting the church for.