OT: zero turns & lawn care
I figured I would consult all the MGoDads on here and inquire about lawn care when you have over an acre.
I'm probably going to invest in a zero-turn. Any recommendations on brand? Also, if anyone has made the leap to electric/battery powered, any pros/cons/considerations?
Lastly, any tips on tick control and other woodland/lawn pests? No, I won't be shooting gophers, Mrs. Dennis and I like animals too much.
I got a Gravely and love it. Not as expensive as SCAG and does the job on my couple acres. I got the ZT XL with a 60” deck, but I’m sure anything 50+ would still do the trick. Same company as Ariens if you are familiar with their products, but kind of their “Cadillac to a Chevy”. I can cut the 1.5 acres I mow in about 45 mins. But I usually take about an hour if I’m not in a rush.
I hire other lawn care, almost as expensive to do it myself, and they do a lot better job than I could.
John Deere zero turn 9300 series is my boss. love it. 3 clippling bads covers my 5 acres. Reliable, dependent and trustrworthy. gets the job done in a timely fashion..
Have a Gravely Zero turn as well but i'd argue anything under 2 acres and 48" is all you'd ever need. Anything larger is a waste.
I also have a John Deere tractor that is better for other types of yard/landscaping but nowhere close to the speed.manuverability of a Zero turn.
I won't get into brand wars here but I'd only buy from one that has been in the ZT market for 5 years or longer.
I mow about 2 acres and leave the rest to nature. Takes about a hour and 15 min because I have multiple levels of yard, trees, obstacles, creek, and almost no straight mowing lines.
You don’t need a zero turn. They’re cool and fun to drive and they have a larger cutting area on average but cost a lot more and are harder to service (monthly blade sharpening for example)
Brands: Honda, John Deere, Toro, Skag, Husqavarna, Kobota are all solid.
Pest control: don’t go in grass above your ankles and you’re fine. Don’t put chemicals on your lawn. I don’t even use fertilizer let alone pest/weed control. Then again my water comes from under my feet. Those chemicals go right into the environment. Also, could pour dozens of gallons in your yard and there will still be bugs/weeds. Let nature be nature.
I work for a lawn care company. I understand the fear that people have nowadays towards chemicals. The fertilizers that companies use, consist of nitrogen and potassium. It is illegal to use phosphorus, unless the lawn has a deficiency that can be proven.
As for Chemicals, the solutions that are used contain ounces of chemical per gallon of water. I can treat a 10,000 square-foot lawn, and will only put 2 1/2 gallons onto the lawn. Short of a mishap, there is no way of those chemicals leaching into your drinking water.
ticks have been incredibly bad this year. We treat those as well. Again, it is ounces of chemical per gallon, distributed at a quarter gallon per thousand square feet. You need to decide if the risk benefit is worth it.
Just my two cents.
Short of a mishap, there is no way of those chemicals leaching into your drinking water.
Sorry but this is a classic case of "if a man's salary depends on him not understanding...."
Pesticides/fungicides etc WILL get into surface and ground water. They don't magically go away. These classes of chemicals permeate the soil, and eventually leach into groundwater. They run off into surface waters, into stormwater, etc.
Agricultural people do the same thing... they have an interest in only applying as little chemical as needed to do the job, to minimize expense. It doesn't magically go away. There's still shitloads of these chemicals in groundwater. Glyphosate, atrazine, etc.
The lymphoma rate in pets of pesticide users is higher than that of non-pesticide users
Residential usage tends to be much higher and much more concentrated than agricultural, and combined with higher impervious surfaces, leads directly to more nonpoint runoff into surface water (ie drinking water)
Then we get into the effects of nuking all the bugs in your yard, which has disastrous ecological consequences. Pollinators, decomposers, etc. Insect eating bird populations are down considerably more than omnivorous birds.
There are two sides to the bias on this one as there is an absolutely huge market for misinformation scaring people about chemicals. Go through a grocery store with a critical eye and it's bonkers. If you're citing the food babe or one of those other hacks you can find a massive pile of bullshit that's quite harmful.
Thank God you are here! The smartest guy in the room. There is a risk/benefit rule that we have to follow. The products we use are selective, so the nuking you are referring to, doesn’t happen. You are talking about extremes. Companies are blamed for everything bad that occurs on peoples properties. Green pools, dead pets etc. We are well trained, state certified and mindful of the law. And we’ll compensated, so I do understand.
The EPA conducted a National study from 1985-1992 to test pesticide contamination of drinking water wells. Pesticides were found in 0.8% of the wells tested at levels exceeding federal health based limits. So technically you’re not wrong, it is possible for pesticides to get into groundwater. However, “shitloads” is an exaggeration. Take into account how prevalent pesticide usage is and the advances made in the industry since the 80’s, I’d wager that number is lower today.
To put pesticide application rates into perspective, the field dimensions of the big house are 160x360 feet. Around 1.32 acres. Applying glyphosate (roundup) at a typical rate would take 19.8 gallons of water. Of that 19.8 gallons of water, 31.68 ounces would be glyphosate.
I bought a Cub Cadet 2nd hand. I have the mulch kit and mulch blades for it. Haven't had any real issues with it. Replaced battery, blades, and other usual items. Easy enough to work on. Has a Kawasaki engine that everyone seems to be thrilled about. Sometimes I wish I had lawn tractor for towing small trailers and plowing snow.
You should still be able to town anything small behind a zero turn, (dump carts, spreaders, etc.) but they are extremely useless for plowing snow.
Flat or hilly terrain?
My first thought, too
Either way, get a self propelled push lawnmower and get your steps it!
Helps burn off calories for the grilling and brews later.
Anyone that sits behind a desk all day should mow their own lawn.
From someone who sits behind a desk all day, i 100 percent agree.
Or they could outsource it and take the time they would be spending on mowing and go for a nice walk outside. Still get the same steps, but instead can enjoy the time with the family.
Now, actually going for that stroll instead of plopping down in front of the TV is another matter...especially once football season is here 😀
I get plenty of family time. Yard work gives me much needed non work time to myself.
That's a great perspective, sounds like it works for you. But comments like "anyone who has a desk job should mow their own lawn" means you are extrapolating what works for you and turning that into a sweeping statement as to what should work for everyone.
"Anyone who has a desk job should find ways to be active and make time for themselves that fit into their lifestyle and personal preferences" would be a more refined/nuanced take.
user name totes checks
Not super hilly but a casual slope all the way down the lot.
i suggest a craftsman pushmower with a honda engine if they still sell them somewhere. I bought two in the last 20 years both at sears and like the feel of the easy start gas engine. a sloped lawn is fine with the self propel and i like the low dust bag on mine.
if you like spending the time in the yard and have nice trees and such you prolly want a traditional push mower. if you have a square of green and mowing is a basically a chore then I could see getting a rider and/or electric.
I don't think you can beat a Honda mower. I just sold my 25 year old one for a new one. Only a few minor things wrong with it. The engine would start after sitting all winter on the first pull every year. I think I would get something bigger for an acre though.
It all depends on the terrain. I have five acres with many dips and exposed roots. The Home Depot mowers mentioned above would get shredded in my yard. If your 1+ acre is neatly manicured, you can mow with a normal rider. If you want the ease of a zero turn, the maintenance is not as bad as it sounds. I have an Exmark and changing the oil / air filters is a snap. You need the big services at 200 hours, which will take about 8 years if you are in Michigan. The blade sharpening monthly is not necessary, unless you get bored.
Somewhat similar situation here. Mid mounted mower deck on a small tractor makes quick work of the job and gets me through the rough stuff. Not ideal for the few steep slopes and more manicured areas though. We use an ego electric push mower for that.
We’re buying one now too, decided against the zero turn though after researching them
Maybe not the answer you're looking for, honestly just a side note, but it's worth pointing out the one of the best bug control measures to be had is chickens. The surrounding environment will constantly replenish the problem, but those little dino birds are relentless.
low cost model here:
not so low cost, but fast
Considering the populace on this blog? There needs to be at least one weird, tangential comment in this thread so I'll go first.
Trees. Plant and/or let some trees take hold ‐ doing the math for max height and distance from the house - and reduce the area(s) to be sprinklered, mowed, fertilized, etc. That's my lazy guy thought when asked about zero turn mowers.
Well I guess the weird belongs here.
I don't have an HOA so I'm working with a landscaper to rip out all the Kentucky bluegrass and replace it with non-invasive cover crop. It won't be cheap but when we're done, I won't need a mower at all. Or chemicals, for that matter. Funny enough, plants do just fine on their own when they evolved in the local climate. Thing is, "Kentucky bluegrass" is neither blue (shocker, I know). . . nor native to Kentucky. It's a Mediterranean plant.
And you're absolutely right about trees; I witnessed it in reverse. Neighbor cut down a mature tree in their yard and within weeks the weeds took over.
That should work very nicely.
I replaced most of my lawn with large swaths of river stone with a few pea stone paths and planted some yuccas in the stone beds. I've yet to have any need to mow my trees. 😉
Not quite the same but I've planted clover and that will have to provide nitrogen for the fescue. And if it gets dry, well as Drago said, "if it dies, it dies."
My grandparents planted clover. They said it was so they wouldn't have to mow it, and yep, they never needed to.
The template for suburban yards couldn't be stupider. If someone maliciously designed yards to cause maximum waste, pollution, and misery, you'd wind up with pretty much the exact same thing as we have now.
Can’t speak to a zero turn as I have a 12’ rotary, but Bifen IT for insecticide. Mixed to the proper dilution and applied a few times a summer via 25 gallon sprayer. All the bugs go away
Gross.
Think carefully about a zero turn vs. a riding mower. Zero turn gets the job done faster and better, but the rider has more versatility to pull other lawn care items like a spreader, sprayer, or a dethatcher.
Power matters in a zero turn. Don't get the smallest engine, but you probably won't need the largest, either. Err on the side of more power. Anything less than a 54" cut width is a waste of time, IMHO.
Good used equipment is readily available. It's even more readily available at the end of the season if you can wait that long. My strongest recommendation is to find a reputable local shop to work with, both in purchase and maintenance. Local sales and service makes the ownership experience much better.
For ticks and bugs, bifenthrin is great choice. It's a derivative of pyrethrins which are found in chrysanthemum flowers, so more natural than not. The other option for tick control is a flock of wild turkeys. The ones in a bottle don't work well.
I'll echo this... I chose the smallest 'real' tractor JD built at my time of purchase - the JD 2305. It has the 3-pt lift for use with trailers, blades, rakes, etc, and a front loader. I cannot tell you how versatile that machine is - and the loader has paid for itself (and the whole rig) a thousand times over! You don't think you have a need for it right now, but that's only because you don't have it. Especially if you do anything other than just cut the grass... It's a capable belly mower, turns well enough, and is hydrostatic drive - so easy to manage. And it's has the vaunted JD Yanmar diesel engine, so it will sip fuel and last forever.
The zero-turn will cut your grass.
I mix permethrin into my 25-gal sprayer a couple of times each summer to control ticks because I live in a forest cutout.
Ya, you know what, the property has a pretty large gravel and dirt driveway and so I'm gonna need a blade for winter.
Probably makes sense to consider a lawn tractor.
Won't get into an orange/green thing here but I agree. The other attachment for the front end loader which is so useful is the pallet fork. I've unloaded trucks, lifted downed trees and even lifted pallets with it!
I have 5.5 acres and mow with a Bobcat Zt3000 Zero turn. The mower is a Beast!! It has a hitch to pull a dump cart or spreader ect.. It is just solid built all the way around. Couldn't recommend a Bobcat enough.
Our zero (John Deere Z950R Gas 72" Mulching Deck with Oregon Gator Blades) has parked three tractors (62" diesel, 60" & 54" gas) as unneeded. Use agricultural fuel...the power boost is ridiculous...no longer have to use the diesel tractor for thick grass. Good blades don't need to be sharpened monthly (as long as you're not mowing rocks or dirt), and we mow +-14 acres & 2.5 miles of trails every one to two weeks depending on rainfall.
Possums are your anti-tick friend. Kill rate of 98% to 99% on ticks according to some data, which can be 900 ticks per week.
With a smaller yard, you can clearly downsize mightily, and ground contour matters obviously, but zeros (in our experience) are night and day better than a tractor if you're not trying to multitask and have enough yard to care about time savings. I waited way too long to get one.
I don't have stock in Deere, and I have nothing negative to day about any other brands, but Deere are easy to maintain, built like rocks, hold their value, parts are easy to come by, and my 25-year old GT235 regularly sells for 100% to 150% of what I paid, because they're easy to maintain even for non-techs. An air impact wrench ($99 for a 1/2" drive multi-tool kit) also makes changing the blades an 8 to 10 minute task, tops.
Whatever you decide is best for your needs, happy therapeutic mowing!
Go Blue! 〽️
There is a reason JD costs a little more... Those things are top ' the line all the way around! (But don't waste your time with the consumer versions you see at Lowes, might as well save some money and buy another brand.)
What qualifies as agricultural fuel? All I see is diesel. I am interested in getting a bit more power out of my mower, as my yard is long and skinny. Any additional speed will cut my mowing time considerably.
Few thoughts here ...
- electric / battery. Unless you have less than a quarter acre I wouldn't consider it. Technology isn't there. Battery life is just awful.
- brand? For a riding mower, I'm partial to my Deere. Easy to work on, ludicrously high parts and accessories availability.
- you can get a steal on push mowers late in the season. Try around August to early September. I got a steal on a push mower at Walmart of all places late in the season one year for a floor model.
- pest control: mixed bag. I have tried various bug killers, both powder and spray. They work really well - for about a week or until a big rain. So if I know my kids will be having a few days of lots of play at the playground, I'll lay down the bug killer. We get loads of gnats. Otherwise, it's a waste.
- best way to get rid of gnats is to dethatch some. It's hard work but the gnats live in wet old grass. Thinning it out really helps.
- bug spray really is the best tick deterrent. Lyme disease is a problem in much of the country and ticks can carry it.
- as for rodents, I just secure the house itself. I don't do outdoor poison or anything like that. We have a food chain around my house, so I'd rather not poison the snakes, foxes, owls, or coyotes who snack on mice and rats.
I mow about 3.5 acres and use a Hustler zero turn for most of it. I would be able to go pretty fast but I'd have no kidneys left--it's rougher than a cob. One part I mow with a Kubota and rear mower--slower but that part is really rough.
If you are pretty flat a zero turn will be your fastest option.
In terms of ticks, the one thing I use for hunting or working in the brush is permethrin spray. Spray it on your clothes and boots and let it dry. It will actually persist for 3 washings or so. I used to pick so many ticks off after turkey hunting. Not any more.
Personally , I'm not taking any mowing advise from anyone that doesn't have a collection like this. Totally joking of course.
I have a Kubota zero turn. I had a riding lawn mower for the longest time and when it finally died, went through the same. I can say I’m glad I got one. I mow my yard and my mom’s. I went with the Kubota because it was cheaper than the Scag and have been impressed with their tractors. It’s well built and has the mid-size Kawasaki engine.
I have a Zero Turn. It was a hand-me-down after my step father passed. He had MS and needed hand controls.
Now that it's mine, I have one issue: Zero Turn = Zero Free Hands. No free hand to hit FF on your walkman. No free hand for a friendly wave to neighbor, or an unfriendly bat a low limbs. No free hand for 12oz lawn mower fuel.
There is a fix for that. See my post below.
I'd recommend a Country Clipper - tough as nails, made in the USA, solid steel deck and the best part is the joystick. You can actually enjoy a beer while mowing - feels like you're driving a mech. I had a private disc golf course for a decade and my Clipper kept 15 acres mowed all summer to disc golf tournament quality.
There's also a feature that allows the deck to be stood up like a huge kickstand without having to drop it off the mower. That allows access for cleaning the deck and removing/sharpening the blades much more easily than most zero turns.