OT: USC starting kicker dismissed from team for assault the victim says never happened.
So in the realm of nightmarish, 1984 like scenarios, USC's starting kicker was just dismissed from the team, because the university says he sexually assaulted his GF. This despite the fact that said GF claims the assault "never happened."
"Matt Boermeester says he didn't do anything wrong. His girlfriend agrees. But yet, the USC kicker has been booted off the football team after a Title IX investigation into a potential domestic violence incident, an investigation framed as "horrible and unjust" by the alleged victim."
"In her statement, Katz said she was told by the investigators that she was in an abusive relationship with Boermeester and was “told that I must be afraid of Matt.”
“I was stereotyped and was told I must be a “battered” woman, and that made me feel demeaned and absurdly profiled,” Katz said in a statement. “I understand that domestic violence is a terrible problem, but in no way does that apply to Matt and me.”
Let's say they did more than "rough house" and that multiple people saw it and that the couple are now (wrongly) saying nothing happened. So? The fact that she now says it was nothing, and that it wasn't assault or whatever term they are using is STILL the determing factor--all charges should be dropped. That is the cirnerstone if justice--if you aren't willing to prosecute, there is no case, period--regardless of what we think her motives are.
What if her motives were Taylor Lewan West threatened to rape her if she "rats"???
She doesn't get to determine what behavior is or isn't a violation of the school's student conduct code. The school administration does that.
In a criminal case it's the state's decision whether to prosecute, not the victim's. Prosecutors can and do file criminal charges without the cooperation of a victim if they believe they have sufficient evidence to go forward. They can even compel a victim to testify in court, although in practice that's seldom done.
I also don't know how in depth these Title IX investigations go. If there are intimate details of their relationship being discussed in these meetings, I could understand why they wouldn't want it to be public knowledge. Or maybe there's something larger going on. Who knows.
You are right on the money though about none of us knowing even a fraction of the info. Unfortunately, especially during the offseason, it's far too easy for us to all speculate from our computer chairs when incomplete data is given. We could all stand to walk it back a bit.
One of the saner comments in this thread.
As you say, maybe there is more to this story. Or maybe the universities are just drunk on power. Universities have already lost a few of those lawsuits that you mentioned. But we'll find out more later as more details surface, I suppose.
To me, the larger issue at hand is the alleged conduct of the committee. In addition to getting around the jurisdiction of the police, as you mentioned, the committee attempted to intimidate Zoe in order to reach the conviction that they wanted. Even if it turns out that Matt is guilty, that's pretty messed up.
That's what she claims now, true. I am not convinced that she is a 100% reliable witness as to how she was actually reated. I'd have to hear both sides before deciding that something was pretty messed up.
Hence why I said "alleged." As you say, we can't confirm what went down when Zoe met up with the TIX group.
I only brought it up to expand upon Blueblood2991's original point. Namely, the university set up its own group to bring down the hammer of judgement, rather than relying on the police.
That alone is already quite concerning. Zoe's additional claims are just icing on the cake.
August 1st, 2017 at 11:37 AM ^
August 1st, 2017 at 11:52 AM ^
Revolutionary Guard Moral Police Unit
August 1st, 2017 at 11:38 AM ^
Every dude I've known who said he was "just rasslin'" with his wife was a total scumbag. Your mileage may vary.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:15 PM ^
What about those instances where a dude says he was "just rasslin" with his wife because their child forgot to knock on the bedroom door?
That's not being a scumbag. That's parenting.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:29 PM ^
his point might be what the hell is "rough-housing" with a woman? Were they having a slap-box? Like what would qualify that looked like something serious to the neighbors but in fact was all in good fun? That is just a really odd way of describing an interaction with a woman.
Dude, college athletes date a disproportionate number of.... other college athletes! Have you ever known any women college athletes? I believe they can roughhouse with the best of them and live to tell the tale more than some good percentage of average men could.
Not that I'm opining on what happened here, but you're crazy and profoundly sheltered if you've never seen legitimate roughhousing between male and female friends, family or partners that was spirited but not in anger or with intent to hurt.
August 3rd, 2017 at 12:39 AM ^
My wife and I do BJJ together all the time in the gym and out... I guess I'm a scumbag... does it count when she chokes me out?
To this particular case I am waiting and feel we need to see USC/the people waive disclosure before making a decision.to get full details
August 1st, 2017 at 11:40 AM ^
No-one here knows what happened.
"The Liberal Press".
"Pussification of America."
"As men we are so oppressed today."
etc. etc.
August 1st, 2017 at 11:48 AM ^
But here's what we do know:
1. There was some sort of incident bothersome enough to a third party to make them tell someone else about what they saw.
2. That person was bothered enough by what they were told to report it to authorities.
3. Authorities investigated and were bothered enough by what they found out to suspend him and launch a full investigation.
4. Following the investigation they were bothered enough by what they found out to remove him from the team
5. Both the kicker and his GF admidt "something" happened but claimed it was roughhousing and not DM
6. Neither the kicker nor the GF has explained publicly what the witness saw and why it was misunderstood.
7. A public backlash has occurred and the story is all over the media now
8. The school is standing by their decision
Those are the facts as we know them right now. Everything else is 100% pure Columbian speculation.
August 1st, 2017 at 11:50 AM ^
Fair assessment of the facts at hand.
My assumption: they got in an argument and he hit her, hence the report. She feels bad/conflicted, hence her statement(s).
Plenty of moral quandaries for another discussion venue!
August 1st, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^
This is nowhere near a fair assessment, it is completed slanted. In the least, it ignores such obvious points as "Alledged victim emphatically claims there is no abuse whatsoever, as does the accused" and "police investigated with no further action".
August 1st, 2017 at 12:23 PM ^
Which is that the police looked into it and filed no charges. The school pressed them anyway.
Nope. The school filed exactly zero more crimial charges than the police. If the police had been called in to investigate a charge of cheating on a test, they'd have filed as many charges as in this case.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:37 PM ^
The thing is, when you say the witness reported it to authorities... well, kinda...
"The neighbor told his roommate, who told a coach in USC’s athletic department that Boermeester was abusing Katz. The coach then reported the incident to the Title IX office."
Now granted that statement is from the woman's lawyer so he may be biased, but that's two degrees of seperation there. It's closer to gossip than reporting to authorities.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:58 PM ^
"Now granted that statement is from the woman's lawyer so he may be biased..."
You think?
The couple should agree to have their confidentiality waived so USC can release the report. They can then critique it. Until then, there is not remotely enough info, espeically from an advocate for the couple.
By an "advocate for the couple", you mean the couple themselves or the people who claim to have a truer version of the couple than themselves? When you answer that question, you'll have some idea of how absurd this is.
Maybe they were doing something they feel is embarrasing - but had nothing to do with abuse - and don't want that out. They're private people. Saying they should waive the right to confidentiality here is roughly analagous to "if you're not guilty, you shouldn't have any problem letting the police in your house." Bullshit on both counts.
The couple is not a disniterested party. One should hear what they have to say, but it is foolish to blindly believe them.
August 1st, 2017 at 11:48 AM ^
Title IX is gonna get it's pound of flesh and there is nothing anyone can do about it since said activities occured outside of proper supervision.. All such activities must be closely supervised by a team of Title IX administrators, counselors, and clergy as well as legal representitives for the participants.
Fight On!
August 1st, 2017 at 11:49 AM ^
August 1st, 2017 at 12:11 PM ^
August 1st, 2017 at 12:17 PM ^
I have no problem with colleges or universities that employ a professional police force. Title IX administrators and any other college administrator do not qualify and need to stay out of law enforcement.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:23 PM ^
They can kick you out for reasons that have nothing to do with breaking the law.
For example, cheating on a test is not against the law, but can be grounds for expulsion. Or if you constantly interrupt and disrupt a class, that might not qualify (legally) as harrassment or distrurbing the peace but (again) you can be kicked out of the class.
I do agree they should give due process (e.g,. a chance to defend yourself) but I haven't seen -- specifically for this case -- how that opportunity was not provided here.
These two students, since they've taken this case public already, should waive confidentiality and let the school release the investigative report. Then we can get a far better sense whether this was reasonable or not.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:19 PM ^
True. But the current Title IX system too often results in false, or even worse, partly-true accusations resulting in substantial pain and cost to the accused. No number of wrongs can make a right.
The Title IX system is pretty much identical to the civil lawsuit system, expecpt with additional safeguards for privacy. "Preponderance of the evidence" is the legal standard in all non-criminal law of which I am aware (admittedly, awareness is limited).C
Civil lawsuits based on false, or even worse, partially-true asserrtions result in substanital pain and cost to the accused. No number of wrongs can make a right. Do you propose to get rid of civil lawsuits as well?
Don't Universities have their own police? I know Michigan had DPS and those State Trooper guys in addition to the AA Police.
If Universities "have an interest in protecting their students" why was the kid kicked out? Who protected him? If anything, Universities have an incentive to minimize scandal and bad press.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^
Professor catches a student cheating on a test.
Professor calls police.
Police do their jobs and investigate.
Police find no crime was comitted.
Student gets to stay in school.
August 1st, 2017 at 11:49 AM ^
is what put Trump into the White House.
August 1st, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^
August 1st, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
people that may or may not have been involved in actual altercations with their significant others voted a lot and got Trump in. Near as I can figure he meant.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:23 PM ^
apparently Donald Trump was rough-housing with Melania in his front yard and the police got called to the scene. Trump swore he did nothing wrong and Melania supported his verion of the facts but the police did not believe him and then boom - Trump was in the White House.
Can't believe you did not hear that story.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:44 PM ^
As far as I know, Donald Trump 1) wasn't qualified to get into USC and 2) wasn't athletic enough to be a punter.
he supposedly had heel spurs and couldn't go to Vietnam as a result. That ended both his military career before he became the best soldier in history and also ended the punting career before he became the best punter in history. Sad!
August 1st, 2017 at 11:55 AM ^
...to form an opinion here, but I guarantee that the facts - whatever they are - fit my preconceived notions about how the world operates.
August 1st, 2017 at 11:56 AM ^
I don't have a problem with universities establishing that if you hit your boyfriend or girlfriend, they will rescind their offer to educate you, and you can try your luck elsewhere.
It's hardly a "1984 like scenario", which would involve a rat cage on your face as part of the disciplinary proceedings.
And yes, I'm comfortable with that decision resting on third-party reports.
August 1st, 2017 at 11:57 AM ^
August 1st, 2017 at 12:03 PM ^
August 1st, 2017 at 12:17 PM ^
Yet so many people here have read this to fit their particular beliefs - mainly that men are victimized by the current system. This isn't a 'he said, she said' situation. First, there is a witness to what happend that day. Second, who knows what came up in the ensuing investigation. Teammates, friends, family may all have contributed to the evidence here.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:26 PM ^
The neighbor saw the incident and told their roommate who then told a coach in the athletic department who then told a football coach who then told the title IX office who then did their investigation.
What one person sees as roughhousing another may see as abuse. It is tough to have an opinion one way or the other without any facts of the actual incident that occured.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
Out the window and yell
I'm not going to take it anymore.
Network, ,,,,,watch it millennials.
Get Common Sense back to America.
August 1st, 2017 at 12:49 PM ^
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