OT- Tiger wins #82
October 27th, 2019 at 8:44 PM ^
I’d argue that Nicklaus was the goat and Tiger a close second, but man when Tiger was in his heyday he was beating the field by 10 stroke plus. Absolutely dominant
October 27th, 2019 at 9:13 PM ^
I'd argue still GOAT. I know Nicklaus has him slightly beat in longevity, but competition is also stiffer these days.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:34 PM ^
Tiger is the GOAT. The only way his career has been discounted is because of his personal failings, which are becoming of less importance as times go by.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:10 AM ^
His career has not been discounted.
As it stands Jack is the goat and Tiger earns the title of most dominant in his day. Had Tiger not been injured for years on end, things would probably be different.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:52 PM ^
During their respective primes Nicklaus faced far, far stiffer competition than Woods.
Nicklaus spent years facing down guys like Palmer, Player, and Watson.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:58 PM ^
Not to mention Ben Crenshaw, Lee Trevino, Johnny Miller, Hale Irwin, and Raymond Floyd.
October 27th, 2019 at 10:25 PM ^
Did they redesign courses to make it harder for him to win, like they did with Woods in Augusta?
October 27th, 2019 at 11:04 PM ^
Equipment was stable during the Nicklaus era. Augusta wasn't changed specifically for Tiger. It has been altered many times in the last 20 years because equipment is getting so much better. The course is worse though.
October 27th, 2019 at 10:17 PM ^
And Tiger spent his years facing down Mickelson, Singh, Furyk, Ernie Els, Sergio Garcia, and full fields of other amazing golfers who, if they had been playing during Nicklaus' prime would be golf legends now.
And right now, there is no question that the influx of money into the sport has dramatically increased the talent pool to a level higher than ever before. Spieth, Koepka, McIlroy, Johnston, and others would have been completely rolling the entire field 40 years ago.
Nicklaus has longevity over Tiger. Tiger, especially during his prime, was a more skilled golfer. So, he is the Greatest of All Time.
October 27th, 2019 at 10:33 PM ^
Hahaha. I have zero skin in this game and could not care less but your statements are completely unprovable and you are hilariously stating them as if they are stone cold facts.
October 28th, 2019 at 5:56 AM ^
What he said is true. Nowadays golf is big time, between the money and the training there are a slew of golfers that stand a chance to win at every tournament. Look at the past few years winners, not only are the name players winning but non-name players are winning as well. Back in Nicholas's day the field was less talented from top to bottom; even Nicholas said there was only a handful of guys he truly worried about. If there was a tournament in 'Golf Valhalla' guys like Trevino and Watson and Player would be up there with Tiger and Thomas and Speith but towards the bottom there would be far more players from now than then.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:29 PM ^
How do you measure the skill of one golfer over another from two different time periods?
It is virtually impossible due to the differences in technology and equipment that each player used.
Some facts:
“...Nicklaus cranked a 341-yard blast to win the PGA Championship’s long drive competition in 1963 with the “old ball.” When he was 18 years old, he and Arnold Palmer drove the green on a 330-yard par 4 at Athens (Ohio) CC, a story Nicklaus shared at Palmer’s memorial service.
Today, such drives are routine. According to shotlink data, there were 200 measured drives of 375 yards or longer during the 2015-16 PGA Tour season, including eight surpassing the 400-yard barrier.
Study the career of Fred Couples to grasp the impact technology has made on driving distance at the game’s highest level.
In 1982, Couples was a limberbacked 22-year-old with immense flexibility. He averaged 268.7 yards in driving distance, which was eighth on the PGA Tour.
In 2009, Couples was a 49-year-old with a decade-and-a-half battling serious back problems. He averaged 297.5 yards in driving distance, which was 24th on the PGA Tour.”
October 28th, 2019 at 1:45 PM ^
There’s also this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/jack-nicklaus-surpsingly-fast-swing-speed/amp
not that I put too much emphasis on it, bc it’s unverified, but worth thinking about.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:51 PM ^
Watson 8 Majors. Seve 4 majors, Trevino 6 majors, Floyd 4 majors,
October 27th, 2019 at 10:24 PM ^
No, he faced a couple big names, definitely not deeper competition. And if you want to play the name game, you've got Sergio, Phil, Ernie, Vijay, Duval, not to mention some overlap with the old guard and the new and then all of the Davis loves mark omeras etc.
October 27th, 2019 at 10:53 PM ^
How many majors of all of those names?
October 28th, 2019 at 12:52 AM ^
Nicklaus had plenty of competition in his day, too:. Palmer, Player, Trevino, Tom Watson, Greg Norman, Billy Casper, Raymond Floyd, Tom Weiskopf, Johnny Miller, Hale Irwin, Seve Ballasteros, Hubert Green, Ben Crenshaw, Tony Lema, Julius Boros, Gay Brewer, Tony Jacklin, Bruce Devlin and a slew of others in the 60s, 70s, and 80s were there to challenge and often beat Nicklaus.
Even Sam Snead was still around and winning tournaments early in Jack's career, as he win his last tour victory in 1965.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:49 PM ^
Yeah, Palmer, Watson, Trevino, Weiskoff, Green, Pate,North,Ballesteros and Floyd all are lesser players compared to todays. Get a clue.
October 28th, 2019 at 8:33 PM ^
How can you say that? Based on what? The game is completely different now than it was because of the equipment.
But don’t take my word for it:
October 27th, 2019 at 8:39 PM ^
But how many Perkins waitresses did Sam Snead bang?
October 27th, 2019 at 8:41 PM ^
I am sure Sam was no saint.
But no message board to whine about it existed back then.
October 27th, 2019 at 8:44 PM ^
Not nearly enough.
October 27th, 2019 at 8:49 PM ^
Tiger's little black book was epic in quality and quantity, allegedly.
October 27th, 2019 at 8:50 PM ^
Sam was a Stuckeys regular...
October 28th, 2019 at 3:47 PM ^
Stivers when he was playing in Michigan
October 27th, 2019 at 8:40 PM ^
I am watching it now.
Second greatest ever.
It always makes me wonder what would have happened had he taken something off the tee, used more 3 wood off the tee, and played more from the fairway during his career.
And of course, the injuries--too bad, for sure. Probably 30 majors and like Jack said, 10 Masters. Hell, he almost got two majors in 2018.
AND it always makes me appreciate being able to have watched Jack Nicklaus during much of his heyday. Nicklaus belongs on American sports Mt Rushmore.
There is still a HELL of a career separating Woods majors and Nicklaus. Both are simply the best at what they do and always will be.
Now DUCK for all the self righteous rants about Tiger and his personal life.
October 27th, 2019 at 8:43 PM ^
In terms of the difference between him and the rest of the field, Tiger was better than Jack, IMO. The 2000 US Open was the definitive performance in golf history. He was playing a different game than the rest of the field.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:13 PM ^
I have heard this argument before, and I can understand why people think that way.
I argue that Jack was winning while others knew how to win as well. Watson, Palmer, Player--all those were winning tons of majors themselves--Nicklaus was, in my opinion, playing a far more top-heavy, and more competitive field, in my opinion. Heck, Lee Trevino, Hale Irwin, Ray Floyd--some great golf being played and because it was long ago, we of course give in to recency bias.
Tiger faces a far deeper field, but so many of these guys flash in the pan and then fade. Heck, I would take Phil over most of todays young guys with the exception of Koepka.
But there is NO taking away from what Tiger has, and still is, accomplishing. I really thought he would obliterate Jacks 18 majors and had him penciled in for 100 career victories. And I would like to see him do it still.
October 27th, 2019 at 8:47 PM ^
I’m under 40, and Tiger made me interested in watching and playing golf. To me, the GOAT for sure. I understand older people like Niklaus or whoever else, but what he did in his prime was awesome.
Its similar to people arguing Jordan was the GOAT over LeBron or Kobe or whoever. Doesn’t matter. They were all great.
But, there is only one GOAT in football. Andre Ware... kidding UofMs own Tom Brady.
October 27th, 2019 at 8:48 PM ^
Simply the greatest ever. #1 professional athlete in my lifetime.
October 27th, 2019 at 8:55 PM ^
#1 professional athlete may be a bit much.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^
We all dream of being a great athlete or player in a sport. Every great athlete dreams of playing golf like Tiger Woods.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:02 PM ^
I have to say that was beautifully put.
October 27th, 2019 at 8:54 PM ^
False. The Tigers were nowhere near 82 wins.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:03 PM ^
I think the OP was referring to their ranking in the most recent MLB top 32
October 27th, 2019 at 9:41 PM ^
#1 in the draft!
October 27th, 2019 at 10:28 PM ^
Dad joke game is strong. Respect.
October 27th, 2019 at 8:59 PM ^
The competition has ratcheted up since Nicklaus's day too. That's not to deny him his due. He was a great golfer, at least the 2nd best ever, and maybe the best. But Tiger had more top-quality, working-out, rigorously coached guys after him.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:25 PM ^
Watson, Palmer, player, Norman, ballesteros should I keep going? You’re wrong
October 27th, 2019 at 10:12 PM ^
Phil, Rory, duval, Vijay, spieth, DJ...should I keep going?
all I’m saying is that doesn’t work.
October 27th, 2019 at 10:50 PM ^
Majors of my group vs yours
Not even close
October 28th, 2019 at 8:41 AM ^
That’s kind of the point though, Nicklaus played against a much more top heavy field. Nowadays there is much more quality from front to back in a major tournament roster. It’s much harder to stay dominant for a long time, and there is more turnover at the top.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^
I’m Sam Snead you better recognize!
October 27th, 2019 at 9:22 PM ^
He isn’t the GOAT until he reaches 19 majors
October 27th, 2019 at 10:13 PM ^
Really? You’re saying if he ties jack and wins, say, 95 tournaments, he’s not the greatest? Ok. Sure.
October 27th, 2019 at 10:51 PM ^
He won’t do either. He’s 43
October 28th, 2019 at 6:46 AM ^
I’m glad you have a crystal ball, and you didn’t answer the question.
October 27th, 2019 at 9:33 PM ^
Based on number of commercials, I thought Rickie Kardashian, I mean Fowler is the GOAT???? Ok, he's the GOAT of being over rated.
1. Jack
1a. Tiger
Tiger at his best, maybe in a head to head. What makes Nicklaus record even stronger is not just the wins in majors, but also the runner ups.