OT: Northern Michigan lake property
So a few family members are talking about buying a family lake house in northern Michigan and I wanted to get some feedback from the board from those who frequently go Up North.
I stink at taking care of one house, so I'm a little hesitant to go in on a second with other people. However, remote work is here for good and I'd like to have a spot to head up for a month or two in the summer. Seems pretty tempting. I'm the kind of person who is fine with doing the same thing every year (I know not everyone is wired that way) and i kinda like routine. Been getting more into outdoors stuff too.
Yay or nay? Worth the extra work and money? I don't think I'd want to do it unless it's right on the water, but those are expensive these days so I'm not sure the budget would be there.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:22 AM ^
makes a big difference just exactly what body of water you want to be on and how you and others will intend on using that water - big boating trips out on the great lakes? small or medium lake with some pan fish? how remote? do you snowmobile or ice fish? west side or east side or it doesn't matter? is the UP in consideration? realistically, what are you and the family thinking of as ballpark purchase amounts? taking on joint-debt or paying cash?
lots and lots of variables you'd want to delineate before much can be done to assist.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:33 AM ^
UP is too far. Don't want to be on one of the Great Lakes either. Something inland but on the bigger side. Would want a relatively sandy bottom not a mucky/reedy.
Probably would take on debt and use it for VRBO when we're not using it...so $300k-500? If we get a couple families in on it that's manageable.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:39 AM ^
IF the UP was on the opposite side of the Globe, it would be worth the trek! God's Country and Widowmaker Black Ale!
Plus, the lake lots are probably cheaper than those of the N Lower Peninsula.
February 10th, 2021 at 10:08 AM ^
Vacationed every summer as a kid in the UP - Cedarville. Loved it, really want to take my kids up there. Pulled a lot of pike and walleye out of Lex Chunex Channel.
February 10th, 2021 at 10:26 AM ^
Les Cheneaux?
French explorers had some fun with a lot of place-names in America. Les Chéneaux means "the gutters." But the best is Grand Teton...
February 10th, 2021 at 2:37 PM ^
It means the "Channels".........I'm being defensive because we have a place up there on one of the bays. To the OP, we make the 4hr trip a couple times a month up the "The Snows" and it's worth it every time! Even with the 5.5hrs it took this last Friday with the snow. Much cheaper property but a little bit longer travel. Wouldn't trade the cottage up there for anything. (and for reference, we have 15, 12, and 7 y/o daughters)
February 10th, 2021 at 11:30 AM ^
Have had a place in Cedarville for 50 years. Love it.
To provide a bit of my opinion of owning these summer places....the more remote you select, the less it will cost you but also the less $$ you will make off VRBO/renting. Also, the more remote, the better you need to be at DIY. My experience in the UP these days is that handymen are difficult to come by....they are super, super busy.
Also second whoever noted that if you plan to WFH, you'd better check the local internet before you buy. Coverage is super spotty the further north you get.
February 11th, 2021 at 5:05 PM ^
Cedarville is awesome. We do a family vacation there every summer. Love the Les Cheneaux Islands. Really far drive though. This past year we spent an entire week, and had great weather almost the entire time.
February 10th, 2021 at 12:01 PM ^
my family is big into Chris Crafts. We spent a week every August for several years in Cedarville/Les Cheneaux for the antique boat show in Hessel. So many great memories. We spent a week up there again a few years ago prior to my father's passing. I'm so happy that we did that. Such a great area.
February 10th, 2021 at 11:32 AM ^
Hey, there are too many people up there already! Keep quiet about it!
February 10th, 2021 at 11:41 AM ^
Hey, there are too many people up there already!
Just wait until Californians find out about the UP.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:41 AM ^
I work in real estate, recently because of pandemic I have helped a lot of people with financing and guidance for up north vacation homes. Some use them totally themselves, some rent them, variety of options. Reach out to me by email at [email protected] and I can help provide some info for you.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:42 AM ^
that helps. here are some ideas for places to look: toward (but south of) the bridge you get burt lake and mullet lake. houghton lake isn't far from the I-75 and is around mile marker 250 so maybe an easier drive. pricey lakes (but nice) are places like torch lake and lake charlevoix - not going to find much there for your price point.
west of the 75 is where you probably find the best places. over in traverse they have long lake, silver lake, lake arbutus, elk lake and lake skegemog which all might fit your price points, though i think long and silver lakes might also be higher priced.
2 sleepers for you to look at that could fit your needs are fife lake and lake missaukee, both fairly close to the 131. big enough to boat, fish, water ski, have little towns on them so you can get the basics, and i'm guessing not overly pricey in the relative price point you are looking for.
if you get one you may have to change your user name. could be a deal-breaker....
February 10th, 2021 at 10:08 AM ^
Howdy XM, and sorry to threadjack, but I remember a little while ago you were looking for internet at remote locations in northern Michigan. Starlink now has first-come first-serve signups, if you are looking to resolve that issue still: https://www.starlink.com/
Apologies again, I have no other way of contacting you!
February 10th, 2021 at 11:24 AM ^
Thanks for the tip. Looked at it and it said my area of SW Michigan will be available mid to late this year.
February 10th, 2021 at 12:17 PM ^
thank you for eve remembering that, much less posting a link to an alternative. looks interesting. the one that i did look into along similar satellite lines was 'hughesnet', but the reviews were bad, the cost seemed high, and there was no way to simply try the service and see if it worked - your only choice was to sign up a non-voidable contract for a year or two.
February 10th, 2021 at 8:28 PM ^
Hughesnet is terrible here in Leelanau County, stay away.
February 10th, 2021 at 12:43 PM ^
I've heard nothing but good reports from starlink beta testers. I hope this works better than hughes for rural areas with no other choice.
February 10th, 2021 at 12:54 PM ^
There was a post about Starlink on RCMB.
Did a speed test on Hughes before switching over, was getting ~5Mbs download. Now getting ~95Mbs (with no data cap for $50 less per month).
https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/board/93/Contents/anybody-have-starlink-159666421/
Yes, I look at RCMB and enjoy their off topic threads about the stock market, sports betting, etc. I’d enjoy them on this site too, but there isn’t an off topic board.
February 10th, 2021 at 1:14 PM ^
thanks for posting that link to, of all places, RCMB. the short discussion was helpful: hughes service stinks and is $150/mo. starlink is pretty good and is $99/mo.
i'm too cheap to pay for either of those unless there were absolutely no other alternatives. our internet in the sticks is pretty awful, but it's a third or less of those prices so for now we'll stick with it.
February 10th, 2021 at 2:21 PM ^
X - I use these guys in Benzie County - http://www.eclipse-communications.com/ - they purchased M22Project and provide radio internet to Benzie and Manistee counties. Not sure exactly where you are but they or someone like them may be in your area at some point.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:09 PM ^
thanks for the heads-up
February 10th, 2021 at 10:17 AM ^
Cosign on Lake Missaukee and Fife Lake.
Higgins Lake may also be a good choice
February 10th, 2021 at 11:21 AM ^
Lake Missaukee, and the town that is on it, Lake City are great. I have been there several times, both as a kid, and now as an adult.
February 10th, 2021 at 12:36 PM ^
Higgins all day long. Massive lake with clean sandy bottoms
February 10th, 2021 at 10:19 AM ^
XM's post gets at what I think is one of the best parts of the question as far as the OP is concerned: There are lots of options at multiple price points and locations.
February 10th, 2021 at 12:19 PM ^
I'd mention Torch Lake too. I grew up spending a several weeks a year in the hills near there. It was a brisk walk/ride to get down there for us, but it's a beautiful lake. Decent fishing.
Better fishing in some of the other lakes nearby.
No idea how hard it would be to get anything on the lake itself. And last time through I noticed the young rich kids seem to camp out at Crystal Beach/Torch River to drink on their boats. That would ruin a lot of the fun we had back in the day. Not sure how much of the summer they are there.
February 10th, 2021 at 1:07 PM ^
Torch and Crystal lakes are awesome, but are very expensive for lakefront property.
February 10th, 2021 at 12:49 PM ^
Another sleeper is Bear Lake. Not too far from Crystal Mountain, Frankfort.
February 10th, 2021 at 10:19 AM ^
Look up Cadillac. 2 large lakes, an hour south of Traverse, city of 10,000.
February 10th, 2021 at 1:58 PM ^
Cadillac is a trash town
OP deserves better
February 10th, 2021 at 10:44 AM ^
If you just want some lake for watersports, don't neglect mid and lower LP, or even OH/IN properties. It's closer and you get better prices often. You'll be in the middle of farm land once you get past the immediate lake front, but probably not a big deal if you spend all the time at the lake anyway.
February 10th, 2021 at 11:35 AM ^
I have a place on Au Sable Lake (20 miles east of West Branch) for 15 years now. Love it but as others have said, there are many variables to consider.
A couple of others are the trek time you are willing to tolerate (traffic on 23/75 is bad on the major weekends). I get around that now with the remote working now. Spent several weeks up north while working. Quite a nice thing waking up and working while you view is the lake and trees. What size lake do you want to be on?
Au Sable lake is ok for its size (275 acres), there a few unique features about it, but can be crowded for the 3 major holidays (Memorial Day, July 4th, and Labor Day).
Given the price range you are looking at, you are in the range to get on a lake except for the really expensive ones that are located in the most northwest region (TC area).
I have been looking at Hubbard Lake (northeast side), its 88000 acres and your price range falls right in line for a place on the water.
I'm looking into it as I am anxious to have a larger lake so that I can enjoy my time on the lake without someone wakeboarding 20 yards off you port and rocking the hell out of me. Nothing wrong with wakeboarding, my oldest has started it, but when the lake gets crowded.....
February 10th, 2021 at 12:00 PM ^
Higgins Lake seems to check all of your boxes and it's just off 75 and not too far north. It's a beautiful, sand bottom lake. It's only about a 2.5 hour drive from A2.
February 10th, 2021 at 5:47 PM ^
In a bit late on this, but I think it is a great idea. We bought in 2019 and it was one of the best decisions we ever made. We have 3 girls and they love it. So do I. We use it year round and are going up Friday night.
I would definitely advise on lakefront. It is really nice to be able to have a short walk to the water as well as the scenic views.
We are on Intermediate Lake in the town of Central Lake. Torch Lake is just west of us. We are 10 minutes north of Bellaire (Shorts and Shanty Creek). Traverse City is 45 minutes west, Petoskey is 40 minutes NE, and Charlevoix is about 25 minutes NE.
The location is perfect for us. Isolated enough to not be in a tourist area, but close enough to go into town if we want.
We paid $165k for a small 3 bedroom cabin. However, we are one of 5 cabins on a shared property. My buddys family is one of the other owners, so we were familiar with it. Similar completely private properties on the same lake are at least $350k. The market is really tight right now as a lot of people are looking to do the same thing you are. One of the other cabins sold this fall immediately. Work with a realtor and be ready to move quickly.
We have been rehabbing since we bought it and it isnt as bad as I would have thought. I prefer to pay people though, since I want to enjoy it while I am there. I use a couple Arlo cameras to keep an eye on it when I am not there. Hard to believe, but we have city water, natural gas, and fiber internet is coming in the spring.
Good luck!
February 10th, 2021 at 9:22 AM ^
We seriously thought about doing this last summer when we were going stir crazy. Ended up just renting a house on a lake to try it out.....and decided that there was no way we could handle the constant driving back and forth as well as the upkeep on two houses.
We enjoyed renting a place and then not worrying about it after that so going forward we'll probably just keep doing that.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:26 AM ^
This is seriously what he should do. I did the same thing years ago. I just hated the monotony of feeling obligated to use the house and drive up after work every weekend and deal with 75 traffic. Rent a place and decide if it's what you really want. If you pick a bad traffic weekend, that might make the decision for you.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:23 AM ^
I've been involved in a family owned lake front cottage for over 30 years. It's been fabulous. two things I'd tell you. Real estate right now is totally a seller's market. Home values are insanely high, if money is a factor, it is a really bad time to buy. Also, this is a huge factor that many people don't think about; if you find a place you're seriously interested in, you MUST do your homework on the neighbor situation. Since the vast majority of the time spent at a lakehome is spent outside, you will have a lot of interaction with neighbors. If they suck, you will want to sell that place the first week after you bought it! Good luck on your decision
February 10th, 2021 at 9:31 AM ^
Good point on the neighbor thing. At our rental in the UP last summer a neighbor was flying a Confederate flag. Good thing we didn't buy there.
February 10th, 2021 at 10:26 AM ^
You misunderstood him. He was just showing his respect for tradition. You know, mint juleps, settling disputes with firearms, an economy centered on the 0.1%, dividing and conquering the rabble, involuntary servitude, etc. The Lost Cause.
February 10th, 2021 at 10:33 AM ^
I've never lived in the South and have no connections to it whatsoever . . . but I can buy that some people genuinely want to use that flag as a symbol of their heritage. I don't think they're lying about that. But the problem is this flag is associated with a rebellion over slavery.
Southerners need to find some alternate symbol that isn't so full of baggage.
February 10th, 2021 at 11:19 AM ^
I hear you. I grew up north of the Mason-Dixon line in western Pennsylvania and had a least 2 ancestors fight for the Union (one a doctor and the other a supply sergeant).
I've lived in northern Virginia for 25 years. Lots of roads and schools are named after Confederate generals and politicians. It never really bothered me ('they' lost, 'we' won) except for when we moved from Falls Church in Fairfax county to Ashburn in Loudoun County. We we got there the schools had a January holiday named "Lee-Jackson-King Day" on the same day the rest of the country celebrated Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday. Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee also had January birthdays. They eventually moved Jackson and Lee to the Friday before (county workers and the schools had a 4 day weekend and then did away with the Friday holiday for Jackson and Lee.
Pretty shitty to have celebrated Lee's and Jackson's birthdays on the same day we celebrated MLK Jr.'s in the first place.
I used to tell folks "we moved west in northern Virginia and found ourselves in the deep south."
To your comment about finding an alternate symbol, I'm not sure what they could use. While not as well recognized they could switch to the Stars and Bars or the Bonnie Blue, but folks would have a problem with those flags as well when they figured out what they meant.
February 10th, 2021 at 11:46 AM ^
Some people with German heritage like to fly the Nazi flag too. The whole heritage thing is B.S. If they're into heritage why don't you fly the U.S. flag? The heritage goes further back. They are intentionally choosing a symbol of slavery to represent their values and heritage over that of the U.S. On top of racist, it is literally treasonous.
When buying houses in NY State I went into a basement that had a huge confederate flag in it next to a gun safe. I did not buy the house. (Nothing against guns. I have several.)
February 10th, 2021 at 12:02 PM ^
I do wish people would understand not everyone flying the Confederate Battle Flag is the same. There is a black man at the end our street who drives a Ram pickup with that flag on the front. I hear his truck go by every day.
I grew up a Yankee and thought the flag just meant Rebellion against the Feds (now). A very 70s thing to think. When I got older I realized it still offended quite a few people, and why. So I would never fly it. I still hate the feds.
February 10th, 2021 at 1:32 PM ^
Is your neighbor Clayton Biggsby?
February 10th, 2021 at 9:38 AM ^
Very good point. My family has a house up in Caseville (hey, its up north enough for me) and the neighbor does Air BnB every weekend now, which means its a bunch of 25-30 year olds looking to get drunk at the fire pit every weekend.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:39 AM ^
I hadn't even thought of that. Good point.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:55 AM ^
Ugh, sorry. With the higher lake levels meaning less beach space/less ability to get away from them, this must be a total nightmare. My family has a house there too and the beach is amazing (particularly for little kids as the shallowness of the water means you can just let them go play on their own without too much worry) but if you're surrounded by assholes every weekend, particularly the ones that combine firepit drinking with midnight fireworks, it would get old very quickly.
February 10th, 2021 at 1:22 PM ^
Yes, a hundred times on it being a seller's market up there right now. It's crazy. Our real estate agent up north said she's never seen a market like this, and she's been in the field a long time. We saw some properties up there we liked as soon as they cam on the market, and within a few days they'd have one or more offers. Some above list price. The covid situation and low interest rates have just make buying a place up north much higher.
So, with this market, buyers will either have to be very patient and willing to compromise on certain things.
February 10th, 2021 at 9:24 AM ^
My family has something similar to this and it's great. It's more in central Michigan than it is "up north" but other than that essentially is the same thing. It's been in the family since the 1980's and growing up was a huge part of my childhood. Now as an adult I love it even more. One key for us is that it's only an hour and a half from home, so it's reasonable to drive up for a weekend but also far enough to feel like I've gotten away. You're right to think about the extra work, it seems like every year something needs to be repaired. For us, it's been worth it.