OT: Joe Morgan, HOF second baseman for Big Red Machine has passed
"Hall of Famer Joe Morgan, a 10-time All-Star and two-time World Series champion with the Big Red Machine, died Sunday at 77 at his home in Danville, California, according to a statement from his family.
He is survived by his wife of 30 years, Theresa, their twin daughters Kelly and Ashley, and his daughters Lisa and Angela from his first marriage to Gloria Morgan. Morgan died from a nerve condition, a non-specified polyneuropathy."
October 12th, 2020 at 11:35 AM ^
"He died at his home Sunday in Danville, California, family spokesman James Davis said in statement Monday. Morgan was suffering from a nerve condition, a form of polyneuropathy.
Morgan’s death marked the latest among major league greats this year: Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock, Tom Seaver and Al Kaline."
https://www.kbtx.com/2020/10/12/hall-of-famer-mlb-announcer-joe-morgan-dies-at-age-77/
October 12th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
man. all these HOF's leaving us. . .2020 can't end fast enough.
October 12th, 2020 at 11:35 AM ^
I'm a tad young to ever recall his playing days, but I'll always remember him on ESPN baseball telecasts. He had a great voice and seemed like a very nice man.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:03 PM ^
I am in no way trying to imply that he wasn't a nice man and I can certainly agree that he was a very good announcer. But....he is well known for being the most "get off my lawn" member of the HOF players that you can imagine. His feelings on stats, the Cubs, Ryne Sandberg, and steroids can be found and argued about all over the internet. I'm not going to degrade his memory and legacy as an amazing player and good announcer by posting them.....but Joe made a few enemies in his career for sure.
Thoughts out to his family - the world lost another amazing baseball player and that's a terrible shame. Hopefully he's in a better place.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:45 PM ^
Was it him doing the voiceover, or at least being quoted, in Moneyball (the movie)? The bah humbug about you can't win with statistics?
Anyway, I'm in the same boat as the guy above you, too young to remember him as a player but enjoyed him in the booth. RIP
October 12th, 2020 at 3:47 PM ^
He hated analytics, which always seemed strange because the modern metrics championed by Moneyball - on-base/SLG rather than batting average - loved Joe Morgan. Especially at his fielding position (2B).
Listening to his broadcasts in the aughts when the Yankees and Red Sox were going at it was often painful. At some point he was going to complain that more people remember Carlton Fisk's game 6 home run (the one where he waves it fair and it hits the Monster foul pole) than remember who actually won the 1975 World Series.
October 12th, 2020 at 1:04 PM ^
And dependent upon how you feel on the Pete Rose situation, he was very instrumental in making sure that Rose didn't get further consideration for re-instatement for HOF consideration. This made him a very popular figure in the Cooperstown world
October 12th, 2020 at 11:44 AM ^
As a little kid who watched the final years of the Big Red Machine and then saw the transition of the Reds into a competitive club through the 80's and early 90's, Joe Morgan was synonymous with Cincinnati baseball. He was one of the best ambassadors for the team and the game.
RIP "Little" Joe Morgan.
October 12th, 2020 at 11:51 AM ^
Crap - too young.
October 12th, 2020 at 11:54 AM ^
the choice for best second baseman in history is down to joe morgan, rogers hornsby, or eddie collins. hornsby was a member of the KKK, so he's out. i'd take morgan. the guy put as many runs on the board as any second baseman in history, and the best player on an iconic great team. r.i.p., joe.
October 12th, 2020 at 3:53 PM ^
I'll take Sweet Lou !!
October 12th, 2020 at 12:02 PM ^
Morgan is incredibly underrated. He was arguably the best player on the Big Red Machine (I would also accept Bench).
As a lifelong Reds fan he is probably the best all around player to have played for the franchise again I would also accept Bench. Rose was a one tool guy. Griffey’s best years were in Seattle and injuries took away the back half of his prime. Votto has been injured too much and doesn’t have enough power for first base.
You will be missed Joe.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:11 PM ^
Tough call between Morgan and Bench. Bench is considered to be the all time best at catcher which is a tougher position but Joe is the top ranked modern second baseman behind Hornsby, Collins and Lajoie using JAWS so it's a wash in my mind. I was a catcher so I've always loved Johnny Bench but wouldn't argue about Morgan.
October 12th, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^
I'd agree that Joe Morgan is the best Cincinnati Red of all-time. You didn't mention Frank Robinson, but I'd say he's 2nd.
Robinson often seems lost in the shuffle: he's more well-known as an Oriole though he spent 4 more years in Cincinnati than in Baltimore. The Reds traded him at age 30 because he was "old" and Robinson then promptly won the Triple Crown and was AL MVP his very 1st year in Baltimore.
From there: Bench, Larkin, Rose. Votto hasn't done enough to break the top 5.
Take it FWIW, my top 5.
October 12th, 2020 at 4:28 PM ^
Good call on Frank Robinson.
I watched/listened to the Reds religiously from late 70's - 90's. I continue to keep up with them but my ability to watch sports all the time has decreased as I have gotten older. My list for best player at each position during my cognitive years would be:
First: Tony Perez
Second: Joe Morgan
Third: Chris Sabo (that's pretty sad)
Short: Barry Larkin
Outfield: Eric Davis, Dave Parker, Paul O'Neil (Some might argue Ken Griffey Sr or George Foster but I don't have clear memories of them)
Catcher: Johnny Bench
Pitchers: Mario Soto, Tom Browning, Jose Rijo, the Nasty Boys and John Franco.
That's a pretty good team which I think would match well from any other franchise's best players over that thirty year period, except the Yankees of course.
October 12th, 2020 at 11:20 PM ^
Good list. Tom Seaver could arguably be on that pitching staff too.
It is weird --- with Morgan, Seaver and Frank Robinson, the Reds have been involved in three separate trades where a 1st-ballot Hall of Famer was traded in the prime of his career.
October 12th, 2020 at 4:59 PM ^
Frank may be the most overlooked great player from his era. He had a couple things going against him: His career was nearly the same time as Mantle, Aaron, Mays and Clemente plus like you said he got traded in the middle of his career so he's not entirely identified with one franchise like the other guys.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:03 PM ^
I always watched Cincinnati play back in the 70s when I could because I was a catcher growing up and I loved Johnny Bench but Joe was maybe the key player on those Big Red Machine teams. We loved copying his "flapping wing" batting stance too. Huge 1971 trade, the kind of which you never see anymore, brought him to the Reds from Houston which put them over the top. All time great for sure.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:10 PM ^
? I still have the Sporting News cover that reads “Little Joe Makes Big Reds Go.” Loved that entire team, but especially their spark plug.
October 12th, 2020 at 3:36 PM ^
The ‘Little Joe’ thing was a play on Michael Landon’s character on the TV oater Bonanza. Tough year with all the HoF’ers getting called up to the really big leagues. Not only the best 2nd baseman of his generation, but it was between him and Brooks Robinson for the best infielder.
October 12th, 2020 at 10:34 PM ^
"Called up to the really big leagues" is a phrase I have never heard before, but should used all the time some great baseball player passes away. It's absolutely perfect. +1 to you Grampy
October 12th, 2020 at 12:16 PM ^
Him and Jon Miller were the voice of baseball for my childhood (nationally, as I had Ernie Harwell for local) for 20 years on Sunday Night Baseball. RIP.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:24 PM ^
Very sad. First of the Big Red Machine to go. Lee May died in 2017, but was part of the trade that brought Joe to Cincinnati. I wonder if more HoF's have died in 2020 than any other year? Maybe not, but sure feels like it.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:33 PM ^
I wonder if more HoF's have died in 2020 than any other year? Maybe not, but sure feels like it.
SwayzeHowellSheen researched that very question in the Whitey Ford RIP thread:
October 12th, 2020 at 12:30 PM ^
As a diehard Reds fan (and former second baseman), this one hits closer to home than the others. Great careers on the field and in the booth. RIP Joe
October 12th, 2020 at 12:40 PM ^
Seems like we are on the verge of fielding a starting lineup with all of the Hall of Fame legends we have lost in 2020....don't want to wish time away but I will not miss 2020.
October 12th, 2020 at 1:44 PM ^
No doubter for the HOF. 11th on the all time stolen base list with 689, 5th among modern players behind Henderson, Brock, Raines, and Vince Coleman.
Reminder that Lou Whitaker is not in the Hall of Fame and Craig Biggio is.
October 12th, 2020 at 7:44 PM ^
Whitaker's HoF PR problem is that he did almost everything well, and the things he did really well were underappreciated. In particular, with the bat he did not hit for average, but got on base extremely well and had plus power for a 2B:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/whitalo01.shtml
Morgan had another 1000AB and 33% more WAR (which is why he's in the running for best 2B every with Rogers Hornsby and Eddie Collins):
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morgajo02.shtml
Biggio adds another 1000AB over Morgan but with less WAR than Sweet Lou:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml
October 12th, 2020 at 1:54 PM ^
R.I.P. to an all-time great, one of three legendary Reds elites, up there with Pete Rose and Barry Larkin
October 13th, 2020 at 9:19 PM ^
Gotta put Bench in there too. Many consider him the greatest catcher of all-time
October 12th, 2020 at 2:30 PM ^
Damn. I know he kind of got shit on as a broadcast guy over the years but I always liked him. Likely/maybe a nostalgia thing as him and Jon Miller in the booth for Sunday night baseball was good viewing.
October 12th, 2020 at 5:12 PM ^
I checked out Joe's career stats today and the most amazing thing relative to today's players is the ratio of walks to strikeouts. Morgan won back-to-back MVPs in 1975 and 76. In those two seasons combined, he walked 246 times and struck out only 93 times.
I had forgotten that he played 22 seasons and only 8 of those were for the Reds.
According to baseball-reference.com, Morgan's most similar batter was, you guessed it, Lou Whitaker. It's remarkable how similar their stats are. Morgan stole a lot more bases, had more walks and fewer strikeouts, but not by much.
Here are their 162 game averages:
Morgan: OPS: .819 BA: .271 Runs: 101 HR:16 RBI: 69 Hits: 154 SBs: 42 OBP: .392 Career hits: 2,517 All-Star Games: 10 Gold Gloves: 5
Whitaker: OPS: .789 BA: .276 Runs: 94 HR: 17 RBI: 73 Hits: 161 SBs: 10 OBP: .363 Career hits: 2,369 All-Star Games: 5 Gold Gloves: 3
If many consider Morgan to be the greatest 2B of all time, how can Sweet Lou not even be in the HOF?
October 12th, 2020 at 8:06 PM ^
Sweet Lou definitely belongs there.
October 12th, 2020 at 5:28 PM ^
RIP Joe.
An argument can be made he was the best player on the greatest team of all time. It's amazing the great 8 all lasted this long. Was hoping they would be around for a 50yr reunion in 2025.
October 12th, 2020 at 6:34 PM ^
I watched a lot of Reds games in those years. Morgan was definitely the glue that held that team together. He had a special relationship with Sparky Anderson. He was a tough out, and he drove pitchers crazy stealing second. He was intelligent and well spoken....a wonderful ambassador for the Reds.
October 12th, 2020 at 8:52 PM ^
RIP, Mr. Morgan.