OT: And now for something completely different. The Upper Peninsula
Before the recent debacle, a debate of interest was discussed in my area.
I work with a guy who lived in the U.P. for many years, and he mentioned that there is still talk (how much I don't know, but he made it out to be something more than just a few people) that many up there still want to make the U.P. an entirely different state from Michigan.
I remember this being talked about as a kid, but I didn't realize it was still a topic up there (or down here, apparently).
So... Funny question for you guys (and especially any of you who live up there): would you want the U.P. to become its own state?
I don't live there, but no. We need fewer low population states, not more.
There should only be one Dakota. No need for two. Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho should be combined into a single state.
Right. two senators and a congressman representing a population of about 300,000 people. They would need their own state government, police force, etc and all the overhead that comes with that. Terrible idea all around.
Otoh XM could potentially run for governor. So it's undoubtedly a dilemma.
I'm honestly surprised there are that many people up there. I would have guessed 150K max.
Most of them live in Dick
its the big population centers that ruin everything. there is far more safety and much easier living when you know your neighbor(s). and having been an elected official for a long time i can tell you with 100% certainty that the government that governs closest to you governs best. you aren't about to ruin sven's life and make stupid decisions when you and he are shirt tail relatives and you both went to the same high school and your kids hunt together.
make fun of it all you want, but we don't have to put boards over our windows up here, which is what they are doing in big cities as they await the coming lawlessness and riots.
Yes, bc rural america is doing awesome! No boarded-over windows or abandoned vehicles in yards or anything like that out in the sticks.
guessing you've never actually lived in rural america, and of course any of us that do are absolute dolts and you wouldn't spend time with us.
you might want to hold off on that well-researched opinion of yours and get back to me when the food riots start.....
I'm a councilperson in a city that is across the street from a major US city (top five in population).
Call the police in my city, 2 minutes. Call the police across the street... hours.
Rural vs. metropolitan isn't the issue, the larger the reach of a government, the less personable it can be. I can walk to the mayor's house and let him have a piece of my mind. If i approach the mayor from the city across the street, i will be intercepted by security detail. It is what it is.
So do you think rural America would have food while cities don’t?
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
of course. its people like me/my family that produce the food that city dwellers eat. no cow/chicken/lamb/pork/row crops/hay pastures in the middle of [insert large metro area here].
"the government that governs closest to you governs best." I'm guessing you don't have to deal with a Homeowners' Association.
Yeah, government that governs closest to you wasn’t so great for some people in the South until governments further away (somewhat) fixed it.
I’m a Yooper too, and not all of us love to play the country bumpkin like you do. I was in local government too, briefly. I moved out after 20 some years and never regretted it. Making it a state this is a dumb idea and a waste of money and resources. We have like 300k people. You don’t pay all the costs of changing infrastructure so that that few people can do what they like. They always bitch about the roads and the money staying down state, but the populous up there is so tax adverse they wouldn’t have dollar one to fix a damn thing. There is also crime and violence up there too, btw, it’s just usually waged against members of a single household.
a. relax hollywood, we're just having some fun here
b. what an utter failure of logic in your 'north beats south' assertion. seriously.
I'm confused on point b.
I get the fun of the concept but closer gov'ts certainly do not always rule better. Of all the well-reasoned points you usually make, this one is dubious.
i said better, not always perfect/100%. i'll try an analogy of a pick-up basketball game. if you go to one in a big city it is a much more anonymous and much more dog-eat-dog affair. fouls start arguments and actual fights, sometimes shootings, guys try to jump games, etc. if you go to your regular saturday morning hoops game in the UP (yes, i had one for years), no fights, nobody is jumping games. now, you still have the guy that won't pass and another guy that calls fouls, and the game itself might not generate a lot of (read: any) highlight films, but for the purpose of the game it is superior.
I understand the general point and am happy to let it go. Just making sure you weren't on the 100% better train.
I get your example, but that is n = 1. The court that Juwan Howard grew up on might have been rough, but everyone knew each other--so the difference wasn't necessarily familiarity or government.
From my experience as a former intramural basketball ref in a small city, the most vicious game of basketball I've ever witnessed was Women's Law School vs. Women's Med School. Put the Frat C team games where both teams showed up hammered to shame. Could have called a foul every three seconds. Multiple women left injured. If I were more experienced, I'd have called the game 5 minutes in.
This is such a shitty post.
Anybody can use vague generalizations to "prove" how much better their side is. It doesn't mean anything besides the fact that you're good at creating hypotheticals
March 23rd, 2020 at 12:23 AM ^
North beats south? I was talking about segregation, not the civil war.
Since we’re talking anecdotes down below, though your experience was likely different, fwiw I have lived in and near a number of cities in both the Midwest and southwest and I’ve never seen such virulent racism as I did growing up in the UP. Somebody tried to burn a cross in a black kid’s lawn; I went to school with a kid whose initials were intentionally K.K.K. My HS parking lot was full of Confederate flags and it wasn’t because of their Southern roots. It’s not that everybody was a racist, just that a lot were and too many of the rest just didn’t care. I don’t trust that place to govern benevolently for everyone living there.
I thought you lived in the northern lower?
you are correct, but my heart will always be in the UP. our family roots go back there to the 1850's, 2 oldest kids were born there, etc. we have been blessed 'down' here, but i love the UP and always will.
Gotcha
Personally I think it's sad that there is such a divide between urban/suburban and rural areas. The fact of the matter is neither could survive without the other.
Way more than half of the national GDP is generated in urban areas, as that's where the factories and businesses are located. However, all of the food everyone eats comes from rural areas.
People really should talk to each other more, and not just screaming on the internet. We all have much more in common than we think we do.
OTOH, making governmental decisions based on who you went to high school with and who your kids buddies are sounds like the worst kind of good 'ol boy cronyism.
good ole' boy is what you get in big cities, see, e.g., kwame kilpatrick. the point i'm making about small towns is that you are far more likely personally know all of your constituents and treat them more carefully. again, maybe i coach your kid in football, your wife might be the nice lady at the local health clinic, you and i have a basketball game together or your best friend is my neighbor, things like that.
I understand. I grew up in a small town and live in one now. What you're describing is definitely a positive, but the cronyism/nepotism side exists also. I've seen it.
Except that isn't how small towns work, and if you don't understand that it's because you're personally benefiting from the status quo. Small town governments work for the small social circle of the people in office.
If you don't go to the right church or belong to the right club, your needs will be ignored because the voting population is going to be small enough that your vote will not matter.
thats how the small towns i have lived and do live, have and do serve, and work. also, your logic about voting population seems to be the opposite of how it would work. in a small population, votes count more, not less.
and i'd suggest that any problems you identify in small towns are much worse in big cities.
March 22nd, 2020 at 10:12 PM ^
I usually agree with you-not here on the "votes count more". Here in rural Kansas there really is no reason for me to vote...I do just so I can say I did. For many reasons, the UP should definitely remain as it is.
Hate to disappoint you, XM, but my parents had to do that to their camp & it still got broken into.
not perfect, just better. i'll take a camp break-in where there's almost nothing to take vs. chaotic riots and social unrest any day of the week.
This is one of the most ridiculous generalizing posts I've seen in a long time.
I'm an elected official too, but in a town outside a large city in California. Your generalization that only people in rural america are nice and look after each other is so inaccurate. I've lived all over the country, in the Midwest several places, the South, and now out West. This is the friendliest place I've ever lived, with people looking out for each other. I know so many people in town (and did before I was elected), and everyone says hi. We walk our kids to the local schools, have excellent police and fire departments, fund tons of scholarships for kids to attend college, and take care of our less fortunate very well. I see it all the time on Nextdoor and talking to everyone, with cancer fundraisers, GoFundMe's, etc. Want to know one of the least friendly places I have lived in? (Georgia, so so much for Southern hospitality. Just calling it like it is.) But this is my own experience, and it depends a lot on who you surround yourself with.
Our police chief says that violent crime is pretty much nonexistent in our town. Totally contrary to the way the media and you portray it. I lived in Missouri, with the highest murder rate in the entire country.
As for the riots, if people are hungry, it won't matter if they are in a big city or not.
it really is ridiculous when you make a straw man out of it. nice work.
Terrible idea.
I'm definitely down for one Dakota.
Wymonaho would be bigger than Texas with 1/10 the population.
March 22nd, 2020 at 10:07 PM ^
Sounds like a political maneuver to reduce Red states. Another one is to split big states (IL, CA FL NY) into two smaller but solid blue states & Senators.
You read it here first: MGB come for the OT, stay for the politics!
yes. we would put a guard on the bridge and make sure that troll access was limited.
state capital: marquette
state name: superior
state bird: grouse
state flower: pfff. who needs one.
C'mon, the state bird of the sovereign state of Superior is the mosquito.
that'll be on the shirt we sell you tourists from the lower peninsula.
It would be a lot cooler if the State Capital was the "Mystery Spot"
Nah, they'll just put the capital next to Disney's Escanaba park.
Give the state capital to the city that was going to get it: Calumet
Xtramelanin,
Although your recommendations are interesting, I like one from the past. When this topic came up 40 years ago, some suggested, as you are doing, that if the UP became a state it should be named "Superior."
Residents of the UP suggested that their new state be named "Michigan" and the state below them be renamed "Inferior."
oh, that's a good one. hadn't heard that before. i anticipate it'll be tough to get that one through congress though.
U are trying way too hard.
No state flower?
Hey! I resemble that remark!!!
and here is the first civil rights claim....
hey, how are you feeling now?
I'm feeling fine and healthy, thanks for asking, as my bronchitis has about disappeared.
And as for my decision to take advantage of the voluntary leave time, 100% certain it's the right move.
March 23rd, 2020 at 10:16 PM ^
How about Cannabis sativa?
State motto: "Say yah to da UP, eh?