OSU Releasing Documents from Investigation
They’re gradually releasing documents from investigation.
August 28th, 2018 at 11:32 PM ^
It's possible and I can't really tell from reading the document, but it's possible that these 2 women were part of the investigation team. When I first read I thought it was some hookup from the agent to get his phone cleaned out, and thought woah! But I can't believe that if that were the case a news agency wouldn't be all over that already.
I have to assume this was the investigation committee communicating through Meyer's agent.
August 29th, 2018 at 5:36 PM ^
I figured they were from the investigation team. Note quite. Looks like they are members of Meyer's legal team (see https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB) who wanted to keep a record of his phone data. They may have deleted shit--that happens all the fucking time in discovery, even though its not supposed to. But more likely this is his agent giving him the "delete your shit now" heads up so he knows to wipe the phone.
August 28th, 2018 at 6:40 PM ^
Four hours to clean out his spank bank...
August 28th, 2018 at 6:43 PM ^
So fuckin dirty IT is...
August 28th, 2018 at 6:44 PM ^
August 28th, 2018 at 7:27 PM ^
osu's suicide mission. when urvin does 'retire for health reasons' they are going to feel like such idiots. selling their souls for not.
August 28th, 2018 at 7:41 PM ^
Don't feel like reading any more garbage they ignored. But can someone tell me if crayon is legible for internet documents?
August 28th, 2018 at 8:06 PM ^
To read the comments on 11 Warriors, this is all evidence that further exonerates Urban Meyer because...reasons. Much like MSU, there are a lot of shitty internet lawyers in that group who don't seem to understand how damning much of this information is.
August 28th, 2018 at 8:13 PM ^
Yeah, I can’t fathom how you read these documents and think that this is good for Urban.
August 29th, 2018 at 2:11 AM ^
I think that what they found to be exculpatory in part for Meyer was the string of text messages on the eve of Meyer's press availability at Big Ten Media days. Including OSU SID Jerry Emig, it seems to confirm what was known at the time; that any confusion about how Zach had been charged in 2015 was resolved and that there had been no "felony" as was wrongly reported. I read that .pdf'ed page and I agree that it is largely exculpatory, albeit on just the one point as to how Meyer would respond at Media Days.
I saw nothing that was remotely exculpatory about Meyer's phone and its handling.
And what I found most interesting was the knowledge/information within the highest levels of OSU athletics as to some unstated social media monitoring service that found an 80% positive perception of OSU at the time of Media Days. (This of course is different from the service that many schools, including Michigan and Ohio State, have used to monitor student-athletes' personal usage of social media.)
There was one other item of some interest. Meyer is seen texting to his agent Trace Armstrong that he believes that the current charges against Zach Smith will be "legally dropped." I'm not quite sure how Meyer knows that, but I have all along wondered what the world's reaction will be when, in mid-September, a Delaware County court hears the allegations in what I understand is a kind of a preliminary exam. From the limited information that I have, I haven't reached the point of expecting that the charges will be dropped but I do think there is a distinct possibility of that. And at that point, the whole world will be confronted with the fact that a non-crime was what had become the main predicate act for this entire scandal.
We won't have long to wait, so we can sort of bookmark this page for reconsideration in three weeks.
August 29th, 2018 at 8:23 AM ^
Honestly, I don't know what rock you live under. It no longer matters if it's a real crime or not and it really never did. People trust what they see and they see a decent amount of evidence that Zach Smith has been physical with his ex-wife and that he even apologized for it. People do not trust our justice system so whether or not he gets convicted is immaterial. I'm trying to think of the last major scandal where the public cared about an actual "crime."
If Sandusky had been acquitted on some technicality, well I guess we would have had to all feel guilty for being disappointed in a major University covering up pretty obvious child abuse.
O.J. was innocent right? Every employer or sponsor should have recognized they made a mistake in cutting ties with him and been "confronted with the fact that a non-crime" was why they cut him loose? Come on man.
August 29th, 2018 at 9:05 AM ^
Your view is the preposterously hysterical and sick view that I see too much of, particularly in sportsfan contexts: in your own words, "People do not trust our justice system so whether or not he gets convicted is immaterial." Right. No more "justice system." No more procedural or substantive due process. Let's just let the sports writers and the message boards and social media decide these things.
I want to remind you that I did not make any declaration on the hiring or firing of Zach Smith. I'll repeat Urban Meyer's words, inasmuch as he said that Zach's firing was based on an accumulation of issues.
This board is actually typical of what I'd expect from non-lawyer sports fans, trashtalking their opponents with a large dose of preening moralism. And the usual excesses that go along with that. Posts about Zach "beating the shit out of" Courtney. "Wife beater."
I don't expect that Zach Smith will, in September, be "acquitted on some technicality." I wasn't really wanting to muddy the waters with a prediction of my own. I prefer courtroom evidence and a hearing. But I rather expect that the current charge -- AND REMEMBER, IT IS CRIMINAL TRESPASS AND NOT ASSAULT AND BATTERY BECAUSE THERE WAS NO CONTACT BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM -- will be dismissed on the basis that there was no criminal trespass when what Zach did was what was authorized and directed by his divorce court order(s) and that the only predicate for any "trespass" was a Powell "police order" that does not supersede a court order. Police don't get to decide on their own where anybody can go or not go, absent special temporary circumstances. In that light, the current charge against Zach is the "technicality." Zach's legal acquittal would strike a blow against that technicality.
August 29th, 2018 at 10:08 AM ^
You can be a lawyer and still not have a lot of faith in our legal system. The two are not mutually exclusive. There is a good reason why most law school grads get out of the practice within 5 years, and it’s not just the hours.
August 29th, 2018 at 11:29 AM ^
The pressures of legal practice -- I am personally well aware of them -- have absolutely nothing to do with the overwhelmingly important issues of due process that I am speaking of.
Social media and the internet pose real pressures on due process. In one handwritten note in the Zach Smith papers that were part of the latest disclosure, OSU's Title IX compliance officer wonders "Due process?" on one of the documents.
I am not backing down on this and I am not kowtowing to political correctness. I've been careful to NOT declare that Zach Smith is innocent, or that Meyer is innocent, or that anybody should or shouldn't be fired. All that I have done, is to ask relevant and important legal questions, mostly due process and procedural fairness questions.
And the only reason that my questions and my posts stand out is because they exist here on an OSU rival's fanboard.
August 29th, 2018 at 6:35 PM ^
And none of that really matters and is completely off the mark of my response.
"And at that point, the whole world will be confronted with the fact that a non-crime was what had become the main predicate act for this entire scandal."
Very little of anyone will lose any sleep over or "have to confront the fact" that a non-crime gave a clearly frustrated woman an opportunity to bring her grievances to light. I don't lose any sleep because nothing bad has happened to Zach, except he lost a job that any other person would have lost a long time ago. Basically so far, only justice has been served.
I don't lose any sleep because nothing really bad happened to Urban except what he deserved for essentially keeping someone on staff who didn't deserve it and brought him significant embarrassment for the basic reason of nepotism.
August 30th, 2018 at 9:19 AM ^
Are you saying that Courtney Smith was somehow forced to suffer in silence for years, and was somehow harmed by the OSU football program? Explain that.
This is a woman who lives in a luxury condominium in a beautiful suburb north of Columbus. Being supported by an ex-husband making $340k/year, until he lost that job. She divorced him, being represented by an attorney. She's had the ongoing advice of an attorney, paid for by Zach Smith I presume, for the last three years running. On occasions when she felt the need, she called her local (Powell) police, and never got anything like any retribution from anybody for doing so.
Courtney Smith could have made any claim she wished against Zach Smith if it was warranted by facts, at any time she wished. She could have gone to the press a year ago, or three years ago, or nine years ago, if she wished.
What was the issue with "a clearly frustrated woman [having] an opportunity to bring her grievances to light"? When was there ever a time that she couldn't do that?
August 28th, 2018 at 8:25 PM ^
And with no surprise, ESPN is still leading CFB coverage with their 'Harbaugh must win' story. No mainstream play for this. OSU's delay and avoid tactics worked, as usual...
August 28th, 2018 at 9:24 PM ^
For now. There are enough people in the media who would eventually uncover more. At least I hope.
August 29th, 2018 at 6:06 AM ^
It pays to be a liar in todays society. MSU, OSU, MSM liars all. But the general public is gullible as shit and lack the critical thinking skills necessary to cut thru the crap.
August 28th, 2018 at 9:18 PM ^
Man, the Powell Police Chief, who is the CS in the handwritten note, not Courtney Smith, is awfully generous with disclosing info to the OSU AD. Of course, this doesn’t indicate that they would be influenced in their sacred duties by the AD. Not at all. That would never happen. I must’ve missed when it became standard OP to contact the wifebeater’s place of work with info on his case.
August 28th, 2018 at 9:31 PM ^
Kind of a leap. A police chief or representative would answer questions about whether or not charges have been filed against a for any high profile employer. It sounds nice though.
August 29th, 2018 at 12:00 AM ^
I should clarify. CS is the chief of OSU police. The weird behavior is that Powell PD is reporting the arrest to the AD through him. The Powell PD chief wasn't just answering questions. He called OSU to report the arrest:
"Ohio State first learned about allegations made by Smith's ex-wife, Courtney, in 2015, when a police chief from their hometown of Powell, Ohio, contacted the university police chief, according to notes taken by an associate athletic director at Ohio State. Powell Police Chief Gary Vest told ESPN earlier this month he did not know how Ohio State learned about the allegations and said it would be against his department's protocol to inform the university. Those notes also indicate that a detective from Powell called an Ohio State football staff member the following day to tell him there was an ongoing investigation."
So either Vest is lying or notes are inaccurate or CS is lying, because the document clearly states that CS got a call from the Powell chief (Vest) informing him about Zach Smith. CS then plays intermediary between Powell and the OSU AD, funneling information back to the AD.
I don't think it's a reach to be suspicious when Powell PD is violating it's own protocol to inform the university about the investigation. Honestly, I am skeptical of university police departments investigating athletes or other prominent university officials, whether that is at OSU, Michigan, or MIT. We all rolled our eyes at the Jameis Winston charade at FSU, after all.
August 29th, 2018 at 9:38 AM ^
A couple of things.
1. Was it really a violation of any Powell PD "protocol" to inform OSU's university police department about an arrest of Zach Smith? This isn't a loaded question; I just don't know. I would think that police departments, in their investigative roles, have lots of discretion in informing other police departments about investigative matters.
2. Your skepticism about "university police departments" is a valid and important point to me. For most of its history including most of its modern history, the University of Michigan never had any "police force." I still do not know why the University does maintain a police force. Universities should not be in the business/governmental role of operating a police force. But they are, increasingly so. And perhaps in part because they are becoming such institutional behemoths. And because they sort of run roughshod over the local governments where they reside.
August 29th, 2018 at 5:17 PM ^
I accidentally deleted the attribution for the quote. It comes from the ESPN article here: http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24506235/tom-herman-tex…;
They claim that Chief Vest told them "it would be against his department's protocol to inform the university." The OSU PD is part of the university, so I don't know how that wouldn't violate the protocol.
August 28th, 2018 at 9:59 PM ^
Standard MO in the Tressel tradition, carried on by Meyer, first deny, if that fails, throw someone else under the bus. Tressel turned on his star player Claret. Meyer & Co. are now going to attempt to shift as much of the narrative as they can, onto the Smiths while downplaying the involvement of Urban, and Shelley for that matter, who was/is also employed by OSU.
Tressel is now President of Youngstown State U, nice landing spot after he was caught cheating while head coach there. Tressel's ally there was bag man Mickey Monus, who was also incredibly, the chair of YSU's BoT and who ended up serving a ten year sentence in federal prison over unrelated charges. Tressel escaped YSU for the OSU job, bringing his network of bagmen with him. It's unbelievable that a fraud like Tressel is the President of an academic institution yet, here we are.
Who ever said that crime doesn't pay. In states like Ohio and Alabama, it sure as hell does.
August 28th, 2018 at 11:54 PM ^
I'm listening to The Ringer from a few days ago. Mark Titus is laying out Urban Meyer, but Ohio State even more. His verdict: winning above all else.
August 29th, 2018 at 12:05 AM ^
Tom Herman was the coach that accompanied Smith to the strip clubs on a 2014 'crooting trip. DIRECTLY INTO MY VEINS.
August 29th, 2018 at 9:54 AM ^
Who cares! If they spent their own money and went there on their own time and didn't cause a problem not a big deal.
August 29th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^
They took high school coaches with them. Face it, the team, program, and administrators you fervently follow are cheaters, liars, and all around slimy scumbags. We know you're okay with that - slimy scum attracts itself...
August 29th, 2018 at 3:34 PM ^
so why is it bad that they took the HS coaches with them? I mean, it's weird. .. but is it like WRONG? I don't get that at all man
August 29th, 2018 at 10:46 PM ^
You serious, Bob? It's wrong because its against NCAA rules re: recruiting. It gives a plausible benefit to have the coaches steer players towards OSU. Stop acting so stupid. Unless you're not acting...
August 29th, 2018 at 4:17 PM ^
It apparently was a big deal because your beloved head coach made a new rule immediately thereafter forbidding coaches from going to strip clubs because of the bad impression it gives the university.
And for your own good: Please go back to 11W if you wish to live in an alternate reality where Buckeyes can literally justify every distasteful, amoral and illegal behavior as long as it was done by one of their own. You’re embarrassing yourself when you go out into the real world.
August 29th, 2018 at 9:54 AM ^
It just hit me that Urban Meyers initials or UM.